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UndercoverBoy 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 10 2009 Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 5148 |
 Posted: November 02 2010 at 16:10 |
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f**k all this religious and scientific academica BULL SHlT perpetuated by the one-ist creator god, learn the truth about the Time Cube
(Caution: website may cause dumb and evil Americans to think for themselves.)
Edited by UndercoverBoy - November 02 2010 at 16:19 |
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Any Colour You Like
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: May 15 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12294 |
Posted: November 02 2010 at 16:16 |
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Troll, fix your link.
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Dean
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 02 2010 at 16:21 |
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What?
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: November 02 2010 at 16:23 |
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281 |
Posted: November 03 2010 at 22:53 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 00:16 |
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Wow, everybody knows I'm a religious person and a Christian (even if some don't believe Catholics are Christians), but instead of of being anti religious, we should all be anti-fanatics.
I just read this page http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/geocentr.htm and was amazed. How can this guys believe in geocentrism?  This guys give Christians a bad name. Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 07 2010 at 00:30 |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 00:22 |
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Just because you claim to be a Christian doesn't mean you are one. How you behave is not unimportant.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 02:53 |
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@Slartibartfast: For some Christians behavior (works) are important, for others they aren't.
@Iván: Who are you to judge who is a true Christian and who isn't? Ultimately there is no objective evidence either way. Taking the issue of geocentrism: You may say that it's obviously false, but others could say that it's true and that Satan is tricking us into believing that it's false. The only meaningful way to come to an objective conclusion is to reject *all* the claims that have no demonstrable basis in reality.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 08:15 |
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Meh, wake me when they come up with some actual physics that makes geocentriciy work.
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What?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 09:02 |
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I was aware of that. There is a huge variety of beliefs amongst those who profess to be Christian. When I professed to be one I believed that works were important. I think that pastors and preachers who make themselves rich off of their followers are betrayers of the basic principles of Christianity. Even though I am no longer a practicing Christian, I still believe in the principle of doing unto others as you would have others do unto you. |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 09:36 |
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I like Sam Harris more than most other Horsemen, because he's always calm and composed. He could say practically anything in that dry tone, and it would come off reasonable. But anyway, he's got a new book out, and here's a lecture summing up why he thinks we can get morality from science:
(Part 1 of 4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKwxPh8iWJc Basically, his argument is: 1. Imagine a universe with the worst possible suffering for everyone all the time. 2. This is a universally bad thing. 3. There are steps that could be taken to make that world less bad. 4. Scientific facts show the way to how people can be most happy around others and by themselves, and live comfortably in society. 5. By knowing how our actions would affect others, via scientific breakthroughs in neuroscience, sociology, and all, we can take actions that maximize happiness in our sphere of influence. I think it's a good general though, but it sounds a lot like utilitarianism, and indeed he seems to dismiss the need or not recognize the importance of a Categorical Imperative. Well, he diminishes its importance by saying having it as a guideline and breaking it sometimes is OK (Anne Frank example for lying to the authorities). I think all of it is a good paradigm, and very practical, but at the same time it doesn't really feel airtight. I guess it's as good as any other mode of morality. All of them have thought experiments to prove how fallible they are. |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 10:23 |
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Hmm, how about this? Science doesn't make good religion and religion doesn't make good science.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 11:45 |
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That's why some fanatics don't believe we are Christians:
Even worst, the owner of the Jesus-is-Saviour hate site David J. Stewart says in the FSTD (Fundies say the dumbest things) post exchange (we can't quote his crappy site because he sent a letter to Prog Archives, but he quotes other sites):
What a sinner, he cares about good works  Despite what the Bible says: That's why I'm a Catholic, I can't believe in a God that could save Hitler (he was nominally a Christian) if he accepted Christ and condemns Ghandi. ____________
I don''t judge if someone is a good Christian or not, I don't believe in a religion that makes me hate other people, that's what I reject. Now, I don't reject anything that can't be demonstrable, I reject geocentricism because it's PROVEN FALSE. There are many things that can't be demonstrated but I don't reject them, but if I believe in something proven 100% wrong, then I'm a fanatic. Iván |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 12:56 |
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To put in some clarity for my opinion, how you treat others is paramount, all the quirky religious practices are irrelevant. Unless you are fanatic. Then you must pass someone's purity test. Those people can go straight to hell.  Edited by Slartibartfast - November 07 2010 at 12:57 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: November 09 2010 at 12:46 |
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You have no objective basis for your position - that's the problem. Of course I prefer your position over that of a fundamentalist bigot, but I can still disagree with your reasons for holding the position. Incidentally, there are also many atheists who I would criticize for making the right choice for the wrong reason.
So - you believe something until it is proven 100% wrong? That means you have to believe in any supernatural claim, because these tend to be unfalsifiable. Or do you simply make a special exception for your own belief? No, the proper time to believe something is when sufficient evidence is available to show that it's most likely correct (another way of putting it: proven beyond reasonable doubt). Applied to geocentrism, this means that there may have been a time when it was a viable theory. As scientific inquiry expanded our knowledge, geocentrism became obsolete and was replaced by other views like heliocentrism, and today we have the theory of the big bang and an universe that expands uniformly, with no three-dimensional point of origin. However, that view wouldn't have been valid 2000 years ago, when there was no way to measure cosmic background radiation. I wonder why your all powerful omniscient creator God didn't simply put an unambiguous hint towards some of these scientific facts in the Bible ... that would go a long way towards making atheists believe in its supernatural origin.
Edited by Mr ProgFreak - November 09 2010 at 12:48 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4900 |
Posted: November 09 2010 at 12:53 |
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I'm coming into this late, so I'm sure you've touched upon this already, but it seems to me you're using the excuse that because science leaves gaps, you might as well impose your own ideology to fill those spaces in. How is it you determine which of the undemonstrated elements to turn to in these moments? Do you believe in Wicca? And I would argue certain elements of The Bible have in fact been proven wrong, but of course you simply don't accept the evidence in favor of that position.
Edited by JLocke - November 09 2010 at 12:55 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4900 |
Posted: November 09 2010 at 12:59 |
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But according to the more common Christian ideology, that is the case. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, you could be one of the nicest, most kind-hearted people on earth, and still fry in Hell. If people can be saved solely on good works (Ghandi wasn't a Christian last time I checked), then what was the point of Jesus' sacrifice in the first place? If God can simply forgive whoever he wants to and invite them up to Heaven (You'd think that would be simple enough for him, though. He's supposed to be the creator of the universe, after all), Jesus became the human scapegoat unnecessarily In any case, Ghandi got off on giving young girls enemas and was racist against black people. It's not like he was the most stable-minded guy who ever lived.
Edited by JLocke - November 09 2010 at 13:11 |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: November 09 2010 at 18:01 |
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I condemn Ghandi. I think his philosophy is utterly abhorrent and inhuman. Can I still get into heaven? |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: November 09 2010 at 19:30 |
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That's not accurate JLocke. The most common Christian doctrine is the Catholic, we are twice the number of all the other Christian churches and sects together, and I have posted this many times, but seems people forget it:
So, the most common Christian doctrine accepts that non Christians can also be saved
Do you any reading comprehension problem? I said:
In other words, I may believe in something that can't be demonstrated, but once something has been proven false beyond any doubt, I can't believe in it. My statement and my position are pristine clear. Iván
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: November 09 2010 at 19:33 |
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Is there any kind of interpretation for the "if he seeks god sincerely" part of that Constitution you cited Ivan? Because if there is not, we atheists are f**ked, straight down to hell...
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Theism vs. Atheism ... will it ever be settled?
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Dean wrote: