Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: November 15 2010 at 11:34
Elderflower Man wrote:
First off, why can't metal be progressive? There's no reason why metal bands can't be progressive in the same way that rock bands can. Secondly, DisgruntledPorcupine is exactly right. Dream Theater get specifically targeted by haters because they apparently do nothing other than noodle and thus they aren't progressive. The metal has little to do with it. Opeth, for instance, get bashed for their "cookie monster growls", but there isn't much dispute that they are progressive.
First off, I am talking about prog, not progressive. Progressive in the context of advancing a music scene is entirely different and can happen in any music scene theoretically. Prog only means the music called prog rock which started in the late 60s and so on and forth.Secondly, I did not say metal cannot be prog but that there are no metal bands that are prog to the same extent as prog rock. The only truly proggy prog metal band I heard are put in eclectic prog, so I wonder if that sort of proves my point. However, it depends on what you call prog rock. If Mostly Autumn's Last Bright Light or Karnataka's Delicate Flame Of Desire and similar complacent pop is prog rock, then yes, DT are prog too, no reservations on my part then. Now why metal is not prog rock is a very long argument and outside the scope of this topic, though if you should so insist, I will humour you. And no, in general, people don't connect noodling and not being progressive. Actually, noodling is a very proggy trait and pervades much of classic prog, the word you are looking for is 'w***ing' or showboating.
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant & Zeuhl, Neo, Post/Math, PSIKE
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 15006
Posted: November 15 2010 at 07:24
Elderflower Man wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:
He didn't mean that if you don't like DT, you're a snob. He means if you're a DT hater who takes every opportunity to bash them repeatedly, saying their not prog, saying all they do is noodle around with their instruments etc. It's snobbish, it's ignorant, and it's completely unneeded.
Well, they are not prog rock, so aren't most prog metal bands. The media have come up with some convoluted definition by which prog metal, a metal genre, belongs to the prog umbrella. It applies to prog metal in general, so only a DT fanboy would interpret it as DT bashing.
First off, why can't metal be progressive? There's no reason why metal bands can't be progressive in the same way that rock bands can. Secondly, DisgruntledPorcupine is exactly right. Dream Theater get specifically targeted by haters because they apparently do nothing other than noodle and thus they aren't progressive. The metal has little to do with it. Opeth, for instance, get bashed for their "cookie monster growls", but there isn't much dispute that they are progressive.
Metal can be progressive. Time ago I suggested Tuatha De Danann for inclusion....DT are progressive, too. Only I don't like them. I have to say that Images and Words is not bad at all, but I can't compare it with anything of Magma (except for Merci, of course).
Non-pop music, in general, is a question of state of mind. I like listening to Magma at home with earphones on, while I prefer Ayreon when I'm driving. Am I trolling?
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: December 05 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 155
Posted: November 15 2010 at 07:14
rogerthat wrote:
DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:
He didn't mean that if you don't like DT, you're a snob. He means if you're a DT hater who takes every opportunity to bash them repeatedly, saying their not prog, saying all they do is noodle around with their instruments etc. It's snobbish, it's ignorant, and it's completely unneeded.
Well, they are not prog rock, so aren't most prog metal bands. The media have come up with some convoluted definition by which prog metal, a metal genre, belongs to the prog umbrella. It applies to prog metal in general, so only a DT fanboy would interpret it as DT bashing.
First off, why can't metal be progressive? There's no reason why metal bands can't be progressive in the same way that rock bands can. Secondly, DisgruntledPorcupine is exactly right. Dream Theater get specifically targeted by haters because they apparently do nothing other than noodle and thus they aren't progressive. The metal has little to do with it. Opeth, for instance, get bashed for their "cookie monster growls", but there isn't much dispute that they are progressive.
All your hearts now seem so far from me,
It hardly seems to matter now.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: November 14 2010 at 19:47
DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:
He didn't mean that if you don't like DT, you're a snob. He means if you're a DT hater who takes every opportunity to bash them repeatedly, saying their not prog, saying all they do is noodle around with their instruments etc. It's snobbish, it's ignorant, and it's completely unneeded.
Well, they are not prog rock, so aren't most prog metal bands. The media have come up with some convoluted definition by which prog metal, a metal genre, belongs to the prog umbrella. It applies to prog metal in general, so only a DT fanboy would interpret it as DT bashing.
KA and E-re are great. Will mention that with Emehntehtt-Re you'll probably be familiar
with themes that Vander used in the album ("Hhai" etc.), but I think
it's been done really well (some have dismissed it for not being original
enough). Joyous.
And K.A is largely based on music composed in the 70s but the album had never been realized.
Magma also has various, I think, very good modern compositions that they have not
put to studio album yet ("Felicite Thosz" is a favourite of mine and is reminiscent of Offering, if you know that Vander band):
Edited by Logan - November 14 2010 at 19:29
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: In repose.
Status: Offline
Points: 38974
Posted: November 14 2010 at 19:00
Oh the irony. ;)
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: In repose.
Status: Offline
Points: 38974
Posted: November 14 2010 at 18:50
KABSA wrote:
Triceratopsoil wrote:
KABSA wrote:
magma till 1980
have you heard the latest Magma albums?
no
after 1978 i left `em behind
have they returned to good form
The last two albums are superb.
CCVP wrote:
Logan wrote:
Hercules wrote:
I voted Dream Theater.
I don't think they're that
good a band; though they're brilliant musicians, their songs are rather
formulaic and LaBrie gets on my nerves.
But Magma are just plain awful. I've had more enjoyment at the dentists than listening to one of their albums.
I'm just curious, but which albums have you heard?
inb4 whole discography.
Probably wouldn't make any difference if he had heard most every Magma album. I expect the only thing he'd like is "Call From the Dark (Ooh Ooh Baby)"
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
This page was generated in 0.168 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Trollin' Polls Vol. 1: Dream Theater vs. Magma
Topic Options
Elderflower Man wrote:
However, it depends on what you call prog rock. If Mostly Autumn's Last Bright Light or Karnataka's Delicate Flame Of Desire and similar complacent pop is prog rock, then yes, DT are prog too, no reservations on my part then. 
