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Ivan_Melgar_M 
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 Posted: January 23 2011 at 23:50 |
 Adams Bolero wrote:
No decent footage? There's the footage on Belgium TV in 1972, Shepperton Studios in Italy in 1973, Bataclan, France in 1973 and French TV in 1974. I'm pretty sure there's more good footage available of Genesis then Yes, King Crimson, ELP, Jethro Tull in their prime. |
Oh please, none of them is official, mostly bootlegs and the quality is terrible.
- Yes has Yessongs and Yesyears plus at least 10 DVDS featuring Anderson, Squire, Howe and Wakeman, even one with Moraz and a couple with Bruford
- ELP has: Pictures at an Exhibition, Inside ELP, Welcome Back My Friends, Works Orchestral Tour and Beyonfd the Beginning plus many more featuring Emerson, Lake and Palmer
- King Crimson has: Eyes Wide Open, Neil Jack and Me, Red, Deja Vroom and Live in Japan
- Jethro Tull has: 12 DVD's, at least 5 from their early days, including 20 Years of Jethro Tull, Live at Madison Square Garden, Slipstream and A New Day Yesterday
- Pink Floyd has: Pompeii, Dark Side of the Moon, The Wall, etc
I have them all, for God's sake, there's not even unofficial video of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
Iván
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Adams Bolero
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Posted: January 23 2011 at 23:31 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Well, less see:
- Genesis golden era finished in 1974 when The Lamb was released
- The last 100% prog album (that we all agree) was released in 1976 - 1977
- Very few of the Progheads here are old enough to have seen them on stage
- The production of their first album sucks (Up to Nursery Cryme).
- Many people has prejudices against the Pop era
- There are no decent videos from the Golden era unlike Yes, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, ELP, Jethro Tull etc.
- They were unpopular in their heyday in comparison with all the other major Prog bands (At least in UK because they were N° 1 in Italy)
- They have been the main influence for a whole sub-genre
- Lately there seems to be a campaign against Gabriel era
But still
- They are the most popular Prog band here and in every Prog site that has polls or forums (I visited them all) except in DDD and Scarulfi where only one person does the rankings.
- They are recognized by every piece of Prog literature as one of the most respected and influential Prog bands.
- Most of the modern Symphonic (and other genres) bands claim that Genesis was one of the most important influences in their career.
And still, with all the odds against them, they have usually one album in the top of every Prog ranking and at least three more albums in the top 20?
How can they be overrated?
They got the respect they earned and deserve...At least IMO.
Iván
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No decent footage? There's the footage on Belgium TV in 1972, Shepperton Studios in Italy in 1973, Bataclan, France in 1973 and French TV in 1974. I'm pretty sure there's more good footage available of Genesis then Yes, King Crimson, ELP, Jethro Tull in their prime.
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''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.''
- Albert Camus
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 23 2011 at 23:17 |
Well, less see:
- Genesis golden era finished in 1974 when The Lamb was released
- The last 100% prog album (that we all agree) was released in 1976 - 1977
- Very few of the Progheads here are old enough to have seen them on stage
- The production of their first album sucks (Up to Nursery Cryme).
- Many people has prejudices against the Pop era
- There are no decent videos from the Golden era unlike Yes, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, ELP, Jethro Tull etc.
- They were unpopular in their heyday in comparison with all the other major Prog bands (At least in UK because they were N° 1 in Italy)
- They have been the main influence for a whole sub-genre
- Lately there seems to be a campaign against Gabriel era
But still - They are the most popular Prog band here and in every Prog site that has polls or forums (I visited them all) except in DDD and Scarulfi where only one person does the rankings.
- They are recognized by every piece of Prog literature as one of the most respected and influential Prog bands.
- Most of the modern Symphonic (and other genres) bands claim that Genesis was one of the most important influences in their career.
And still, with all the odds against them, they have usually one album in the top of every Prog ranking and at least three more albums in the top 20?
How can they be overrated?
They got the respect they earned and deserve...At least IMO.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 23 2011 at 23:24
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Dellinger
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Posted: January 23 2011 at 21:44 |
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^ I too don't like Gabriel and Wetton's voices very much, and have been a bit surprised so many people really think they are great, but well, everybody has their opinions. I like both bands anyway, the music is great, and I've gotten to "apreciate" or at least accept their voices. (ofcourse, Lake's singing with Crimson is a wholly different story).
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dr prog
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Posted: January 23 2011 at 17:28 |
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I think Genesis are fairly overrated here. Of all the prog bands from the 70s I've always felt Gabriel was one of the weaker vocalists. Not a big fan of his voice or some of his lyrics. I find some early Genesis a bit twee and a bit weird. I also feel similar about Crimson during the Wetton era. Not a fan of his voice really or their lack of composition. I find it really strange that Genesis and Crimson always seem to be rated the best 2 prog bands ever. They were fairly good but I rate tull, camel, gentle giant, caravan, eloy, magma, zappa, rush, yes higher
Edited by dr prog - January 23 2011 at 17:34
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resurrection
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Posted: January 23 2011 at 01:08 |
sarge wrote:
Now before you proggies get offended by my comments regarding the oh so lovely Genesis (oops, sarcasm already - my bad!) I think it's important you understand I have given a great deal of time listening to Gabriel-era Genesis, in particular Foxtrot and Selling England by the Pound.
Is there something I'm missing? Cause i've listened to a lot of prog and, sure, Genesis shows the elements of the music I love but it really seems to go nowhere. I think the problem is largely Phil Collins' fault, there's only so much high-hat and no ride I can bear with drumming in prog. Very bland indeed. Secondly, and feel free to offer a different thought on this, I find Gabriel's voice to be almost...cringeworthy. Sorry, but it's really unpleasant to listen to. Furthermore, I think I can safely say that a band that can't keep an 8 minute song interesting should never venture out to the territory of the 20+ minute epic - you all know what song i'm talking about, that really dull one that fails to lift the ground. Mellotrons are great for creating emotion in music, but after hearing Genesis use one it makes me feel the anger like i've just tried mowing my boring lawn with a majestic chair and subsequently failed. Lastly, although unrelated to the Gabriel-era, Genesis facilitated the rise of disco. One can only hope they look back at that with shame.
Does anyone else find the constant bombardment of Genesis related material on progarchives both unfathomable (due to the above reasons) and unbearable (ditto)?
Also, in regards to responses, no "well that's your opinion" crap. You're damn right it's my opinion.
Ah well, gotta go - supper's ready, shame it's always ordinary. |
I can't personally see Genesis as the real deal in prog terms, more art-rock than prog in my book. It's that old argument about what is prog again. Yes, they are a bit inventive, but they're not really a virtuoso-type band, the genre (if we have to draw a line in the first place) isn't clearly defined here. Having said that, Genesis are a fine band, just not sure they're in the centre of anything we should be talking about. On the fringes perhaps.
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Junges
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Posted: January 19 2011 at 10:24 |
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Yes, I never could get into Genesis either.
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Dellinger
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Posted: January 18 2011 at 21:32 |
It may have been a good idea from Collins, and with good intentions, but whay would he choose to play his song only with him singing and playing piano (I mean, he's not even a decent piano player). Even if he only played his pop songs, he could have done better.
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Thandrus
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Posted: January 18 2011 at 12:09 |
I understand the topic starter - been through this myself. I think, somebody here would remember my older Genesis-dissing posts here :D
Back then I also found them overrated. For me "Selling England By The Pound" appeared to be a key to the music of Genesis - especially "Dancing With The Moonlit Knight". Next one that hooked me was "Tresspass" - it's relatively simple compared to other albums. I had the biggest problems with "Nursery Cryme" and "Foxtrot". I still don't think that "NC" is a perfect album, but I can't deny the magic of "The Musical Box" and "Seven Stones". What concerns to "Foxtrot" - I still find Supper's Ready overrated - definitely not the defining prog song by far. It has many brilliant parts. but to me it somehow lacks cohesiveness. My fave is "Can-Utility And Coastliners" there - so much happens in mere 5 minutes! Then, let me ask you? Have you heard 'Wind & Wuthering"? If yes, can you tell me, what you don't like in, for example "One For The Vine"?
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: January 17 2011 at 22:31 |
Lionheart wrote:
"Cause i've listened to a lot of prog and, sure, Genesis shows the elements of the music I love but it really seems to go nowhere"
Are you an idiot? |
I revise my remarks. Sounds like you need to get a sense of humor. (Hint, it isn't an '80's album and neither Collins nor Gabriel are on it.  )
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 17 2011 at 22:34
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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moshkito
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Posted: January 17 2011 at 21:05 |
I would say that is also over rated and orver blown ... much more than the topic itself!
Genesis was over when PG left as far as I am concerned. Not to say I can not enjoy "Trick of the Tail". but the next album is the first one that really had me going ... yeah ... it's a good time to go listen to all the other European bands, because London bands have lost it, and the only one doing anything worthwhile was Pink Floyd ... there were several others, but they are considered "secondary" to this group ... and many of them made Genesis look, and sound, like crap ... and their catalogue makes Genesis really look like an excuse for a band ... I would even list Marillion in the list of much more honest bands that did not sell out!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Lionheart
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Posted: January 15 2011 at 06:01 |
" Cause i've listened to a lot of prog and, sure, Genesis shows the elements of the music I love but it really seems to go nowhere"
Are you an idiot?
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: January 15 2011 at 05:58 |
zwordser wrote:
Took me a while to like the band to the degree I do now, especially since I never liked 80's Genesis, Phil Collins, or Peter Gabriel that much.
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Sounds like you need to get Calling All Stations.
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 17 2011 at 22:33
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zwordser
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Posted: January 14 2011 at 21:03 |
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Took me a while to like the band to the degree I do now, especially since I never liked 80's Genesis, Phil Collins, or Peter Gabriel that much.
I find that learning the history of a band usually increases my appreciation of it. Someone posted a detailed and fascinating history on this site for Genesis, complete with photos of stage performances and (If I remember right) some video. I don't remember the link/path, as I read it about 3 months ago, but it's probably still up. Perhaps give that a try. Reading it certainly increased my appreciation of early Genesis, and finally made me decide "no, they're not really overrated" (I'd heard the argument that they were overrated before).
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Z
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Nov
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Posted: January 14 2011 at 19:50 |
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silverpot
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Posted: January 14 2011 at 17:25 |
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Ok, see if I've got this right.
Genesis is overrated because a lot of people in this forum think they're great. That means they're not ACTUALLY any good. It's just mass hysteria.
Lady Gaga is underrated because a lot of people in this forum think she's crap. That means she's ACTUALLY very good. We're just not into the mass hysteria.
Errr?
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nastik666
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Posted: January 14 2011 at 11:43 |
Well they are not overrated at all !!! _______________
furniture bar stools
Edited by nastik666 - January 14 2011 at 11:52
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Gentlegiantprog
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Posted: January 14 2011 at 11:14 |
Vince wrote:
To the OP... what I don't understand is why it is making you nuts. You don't like Genesis? I think we're all fine with that. You don't have to like them. Mostly since you gave us some reason why. Just move on to something else. I can name you many albums or bands that I don't like, but are considered one of the best in their genre. It doesn't make me go nuts...
Cheers!
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On that train, I don't get why A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers is as big a deal as it is, when compared to Man-erg and Lemmings. Don't care though. Don't Get it but it doesnt annoy me.
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Let the maps of war be drawn !
http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/
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Vince
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Posted: January 14 2011 at 08:34 |
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To the OP... what I don't understand is why it is making you nuts. You don't like Genesis? I think we're all fine with that. You don't have to like them. Mostly since you gave us some reason why. Just move on to something else. I can name you many albums or bands that I don't like, but are considered one of the best in their genre. It doesn't make me go nuts...
Cheers!
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"The mind is like a parachute: it doesn't work until it's opened"... Frank Zappa.
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Atavachron
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Posted: January 13 2011 at 23:05 |
Nov wrote:
thehallway wrote:
or 'playing at both San Fransisco and London during Live Aid'..... |
Firstly, it was Philadelphia and secondly Phil was just helping out wherever he could on the day.
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and third, it's San Fran cisco 
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Genesis overrated?
