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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:44
So..It's ok to say a band is overrated without giving reasons except that you don't like them and respond nonsenses but it's wrong to give reasons why I believe it's not underrated?

Again, no time to waste.

Iván 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 25 2011 at 12:51
            
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Junges View Drop Down
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Points: 646 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:41
I wasn't expecting any reply. You have nothing to say, anyway.
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Points: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:38
^ cutting retort, I like that LOL
LAS BIRNAM (soundcloud) <<= my music =>> LAS BIRNAM (bandcamp)
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:25
Originally posted by Junges Junges wrote:

 
Well, let's see...

1- Oh really? And I am wearing a black underwear. Interesting, huh?
2- Again... very nice information
3- Do you really have to see a band on the stage? So most of us missed all the classic prog bands at their golden era. And I don't even know what it has to do with being over or underrated at all, like number 1 and 2 above.¿ 
4- If this is a so important factor, almost no-one would love them. And I disagree about that. The production doesn't suck.
5- I have. They suck even more at their pop era. SHAME!
6- And? My underwear is still black.
7- Genesis unpopular? Hahahaha. Maybe in comparison to other bands, but we are talking about Genesis.
8- That's the point!!! They influenced a whole sub-genre being that bad... that's the point when we say they are overrated.
9- Well, I don't see what this has to do with being over or underrated. And better Gabriel than the pop era.


1- Yes, they are! That's what makes them overrated.
2- Yes, they are! That's what makes them overrated.
3- It also doesn't mean anything. Many bands I love have influences of bands I dislike. So what? They are not their copy.


And to finish... We are talking about musical taste, which cannot be discussed. To me, they are overrated because they aren't that good (to my ears) and are loved like gods. But to you, they are gods. In your opinion. But no matter what words we use, none of our opinions will change. I won't start liking Genesis and you won't start disliking them. To me, they will always be overrated and to you, they will always be fair judged (or maybe underrated?)





Peace.

Had a reply ready, but deleted, you are not worth a reply.

Iván
            
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Points: 646 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:00
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

[QUOTE=Ivan_Melgar_M]
Well, less see:

  1. Genesis golden era finished in 1974 when The Lamb was released
  2. The last 100% prog album (that we all agree) was released in 1976 - 1977
  3. Very few of the Progheads here are old enough to have seen them on stage
  4. The production of their first album sucks (Up to Nursery Cryme).
  5. Many people has prejudices against the Pop era
  6. There are no decent videos from the Golden era unlike Yes, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, ELP, Jethro Tull etc.
  7. They were unpopular in their heyday in comparison with all the other major Prog bands (At least in UK because they were N° 1 in Italy)
  8. They have been the main influence for a whole sub-genre
  9. Lately there seems to be a campaign against Gabriel era
But still 
  1. They are the most popular Prog band here and in every Prog site that has polls or forums (I visited them all) except in DDD and Scarulfi where only one person does the rankings.
  2. They are recognized by every piece of Prog literature as one of the most respected and influential Prog bands.
  3. Most of the modern Symphonic (and other genres)  bands claim that Genesis was one of the most important influences in their career.
And still, with all the odds against them, they have usually one album in the top of every Prog ranking and at least three more albums in the top 20?

How can they be overrated?

They got the respect they earned and deserve...At least IMO.

Iván

Well, let's see...

1- Oh really? And I am wearing a black underwear. Interesting, huh?
2- Again... very nice information.
3- Do you really have to see a band on the stage? So most of us missed all the classic prog bands at their golden era. And I don't even know what it has to do with being over or underrated at all, like number 1 and 2 above.
4- If this is a so important factor, almost no-one would love them. And I disagree about that. The production doesn't suck.
5- I have. They suck even more at their pop era. SHAME!
6- And? My underwear is still black.
7- Genesis unpopular? Hahahaha. Maybe in comparison to other bands, but we are talking about Genesis.
8- That's the point!!! They influenced a whole sub-genre being that bad... that's the point when we say they are overrated.
9- Well, I don't see what this has to do with being over or underrated. And better Gabriel than the pop era.


1- Yes, they are! That's what makes them overrated.
2- Yes, they are! That's what makes them overrated.
3- It also doesn't mean anything. Many bands I love have influences of bands I dislike. So what? They are not their copy.


And to finish... We are talking about musical taste, which cannot be discussed. To me, they are overrated because they aren't that good (to my ears) and are loved like gods. But to you, they are gods. In your opinion. But no matter what words we use, none of our opinions will change. I won't start liking Genesis and you won't start disliking them. To me, they will always be overrated and to you, they will always be fair judged (or maybe underrated?)





Peace.
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Points: 1 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2011 at 05:27
Interesting music 
Chroma green background
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:59
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

 
Sorry Ivan...I could not resist LOL

That's what I meant LOL

Iván
            
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Points: 525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:45
LOL Clap
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Points: 18036 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:39
 
Sorry Ivan...I could not resist LOL
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:32
OK one more:

1.- Don't you agree that the classical Genesis formation (Also known as the Golden era)  ended when Gabriel left the band after The Lamb?

2.- Wouldn't you accept that the only two post Gabriel albums accepted as Prog by all the members are ATOTT and Wind & Wuthering?  I'm not saying both are the last 100% Prog albums (even when I agree with that position), I say that if you check reviews and posts, there's only full agreement about 2 Prog post Gabriel albums (ATOTT and W&W).

Those are FACTS.

OK, that's all folks for this thread.

Iván.
            
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Points: 525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:21
Oh I get it. Everything you post is intended as sarcasm. You can't possibly say that 1 and 2 are not being posited as establised facts because you say they are.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:09
Last post on this thread

Originally posted by hobocamp hobocamp wrote:

Look at your post from yesterday at 23:17.

Look up "argument from authority."
Also look up " " while you're at it.
You may be older but your arguements are full of logical pitfalls.


Ths is my post

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Well, less see:

  1. Genesis golden era finished in 1974 when The Lamb was released
  2. The last 100% prog album (that we all agree) was released in 1976 - 1977
  3. Very few of the Progheads here are old enough to have seen them on stage
  4. The production of their first album sucks (Up to Nursery Cryme).
  5. Many people has prejudices against the Pop era
  6. There are no decent videos from the Golden era unlike Yes, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, ELP, Jethro Tull etc.
  7. They were unpopular in their heyday in comparison with all the other major Prog bands (At least in UK because they were N° 1 in Italy)
  8. They have been the main influence for a whole sub-genre
  9. Lately there seems to be a campaign against Gabriel era
But still 
  1. They are the most popular Prog band here and in every Prog site that has polls or forums (I visited them all) except in DDD and Scarulfi where only one person does the rankings.
  2. They are recognized by every piece of Prog literature as one of the most respected and influential Prog bands.
  3. Most of the modern Symphonic (and other genres)  bands claim that Genesis was one of the most important influences in their career.
And still, with all the odds against them, they have usually one album in the top of every Prog ranking and at least three more albums in the top 20?

How can they be overrated?

They got the respect they earned and deserve...At least IMO.

Iván


It's a structured argument step by step.

I see no "Ad Hominem argument" I simply enumerate one by one the characteristics of Genesis that differentiate them from others, this characteristics are not my opinion or invented, they are all facts that can be verified..

Much less any argument from authority, I never said or implied statement is correct because it's made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative, the mention of other suites is only a reference to what the Prog community as a majority believe, the rest off the arguments are mine..

Before you use complex words...Learn what they mean

If you want to criticize it you can.....But with arguments.

Now, this was my last post, in this thread, because I won't loose my time with people who come to a Prog site to criticize a Prog band only because they like others and with no arguments.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 24 2011 at 14:11
            
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Paravion View Drop Down
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Points: 470 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 13:59
Originally posted by Harmonium.ro Harmonium.ro wrote:

I can't disagree with you at all since you've got yourself that avatar, from which you're looking at me like that! Angry Tongue

LOL

Exactly what I intended..

I came to realize that Roman Jakobson, this gentleman,

made all my posts about linguistics.

Now I'm just a dumb blonde with blocked ears and I intend to act that way Tongue
 


Edited by Paravion - January 24 2011 at 14:00
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Points: 525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 13:58
Look at your post from yesterday at 23:17.

Look up "argument from authority."
Also look up "ad hominem " while you're at it.
You may be older but your arguements are full of logical pitfalls and personal attacks.


Edited by hobocamp - January 24 2011 at 14:02
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 13:50
BTW: At least for me, is enough of this nonsense.

Iván
            
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 13:49
Originally posted by hobocamp hobocamp wrote:

 
Touche. Or should I say douche? 

Flips coin 

Douche it is! 

I don't give a rats ass about your passion, bravery, tenure or special relationships with other members. But when you post erronous facts to support your arguments and draw false conclusions or misrepresent others' statements then it's not an opinion it's just incorrect

Again you imply gay relations?

Please tell me why my arguments and conclusions are erroneous? Because you say so? Because your daddy or tutor told you you were right?

Your whole argument was Pink Floyd is overrated because they were mainstrem Unhappy

Why are they mainstream? According to whom? Which are your bases for that affirmation?

BTW: Your language is very mature (sarcasm)

Originally posted by hobocamp hobocamp wrote:

I like you T. Ivan too when his panties aren't twisted.

Again sexual implications?

Have your daddy or tutor signed the permission for you to join the site...Because you don't sound older than ten.

Iván
            
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 13:43
Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:

Why this obsession with ratings? I'd prefer PA without stars - they are usually misleading. I like early Genesis, but would never want to rate them.

And - no ratings would prevent further under/overrated discussions.


I can't disagree with you at all since you've got yourself that avatar, from which you're looking at me like that! Angry Tongue
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Points: 470 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 13:33
Why this obsession with ratings? I'd prefer PA without stars - they are usually misleading. I like early Genesis, but would never want to rate them.

And - no ratings would prevent further under/overrated discussions.
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Points: 525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 13:27
I like you T. Ivan too when his panties aren't twisted.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 13:24
Hobocamp, you really need to know to use different colors when quoting and writing like that. 
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