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Topic ClosedProgressive rock: a man's genre?

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Pietro Otello Romano View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2011 at 11:34
[/QUOTE]

On the other hand, Opeth, Porcupine Tree and Freak Kitchen have performed in India. Jethro Tull came twice to India (missed them on BOTH occasions Cry).  Several fusioners have performed every now and then in India, notably the incredible Shakti.  Perhaps, part of the problem is critics, be they white males or whomsoever, are not interested in spreading knowledge of prog to anywhere, be it Europe or Asia.  But you folks in Europe (your location says London?) and USA can get in touch with people who caught prog in the 70s or at least who follow contemporary prog rock bands and get to know of the music.  But you will never see Red album or SEBTP mentioned as rock essentials in a place like India.  To expect all music lovers to have the curiosity to read on the internet and find out is unrealistic. This sort of relates to what I had brought up earlier. Are guys at all interested in reaching out outside their coveted circle?  Without such an effort, obviously the profile of fans of a particular genre may get homogeneous.  But there's nothing in the music itself that would alienate those who are not white males as such.  I know people who listen to prog and I have even picked up Canterbury classics like Rotter's Club in stores but it's bound to be a minority because there's no awareness and critics would rather you listen to November Rain all over again rather than Firth of the fifth.  
[/QUOTE]

...and I don't know why, they work quite hard to may look prog as a silly and useless genre too.
Unfortunately not even in Europe or USA. Here for example M. Jackson is the king of pop, and weird enough, Genesis are the ones for sillies!Unhappy
However, I am mostly agree with your post, but what we can do about that?
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what we pretend to be."



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2011 at 10:15
Originally posted by Pietro Otello Romano Pietro Otello Romano wrote:

I was just thinking that a topic about the reason why, mostly prog doesn't appeal to anyone but white male, is quite a sterile discussion, without the opinion of anyone else that is not a "white male", and I was calling any of them available to join this topic because their opinion only could add some interesting information in the matter.



On the other hand, Opeth, Porcupine Tree and Freak Kitchen have performed in India. Jethro Tull came twice to India (missed them on BOTH occasions Cry).  Several fusioners have performed every now and then in India, notably the incredible Shakti.  Perhaps, part of the problem is critics, be they white males or whomsoever, are not interested in spreading knowledge of prog to anywhere, be it Europe or Asia.  But you folks in Europe (your location says London?) and USA can get in touch with people who caught prog in the 70s or at least who follow contemporary prog rock bands and get to know of the music.  But you will never see Red album or SEBTP mentioned as rock essentials in a place like India.  To expect all music lovers to have the curiosity to read on the internet and find out is unrealistic. This sort of relates to what I had brought up earlier. Are guys at all interested in reaching out outside their coveted circle?  Without such an effort, obviously the profile of fans of a particular genre may get homogeneous.  But there's nothing in the music itself that would alienate those who are not white males as such.  I know people who listen to prog and I have even picked up Canterbury classics like Rotter's Club in stores but it's bound to be a minority because there's no awareness and critics would rather you listen to November Rain all over again rather than Firth of the fifth.  


Edited by rogerthat - May 22 2011 at 10:18
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Pietro Otello Romano View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2011 at 08:37
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

As an all inclusive site, it probaby best to avoid racial or genre stereotyping. Let's just enjoy the music.


I am really sorry about the way my post may sounds, but however I didn't mean to be racial or stereotyping any genre at all.
English is not my mother tongue and sometimes I have some problem to express a concept in the proper way.Embarrassed

I was just thinking that a topic about the reason why, mostly prog doesn't appeal to anyone but white male, is quite a sterile discussion, without the opinion of anyone else that is not a "white male", and I was calling any of them available to join this topic because their opinion only could add some interesting information in the matter.

Of course maybe they've already done, and I am sorry if I just didn't get it...? But I still stress the point that 30 years ago I was still enjoying nice chat with many member of the other sex about the matter, but currently it looks like a very difficult issue.Big smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2011 at 13:59
I think female singer songwriters/ troubadours are more interesting today then the male counterparts, espessially in Norway and Sweden, like Lykke Li and Susanne Sundfør more spontanous and free thinkers,  braver I would say.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2011 at 11:13
A discussion at home about why women seem to take after individual sporting events more than team sports made me think of another perspective to this.  Maybe women don't attach so much importance to the concept of a band or a group/team, which is everything in rock.  This is also a stereotyped and generalized observation, but well, just a thought...maybe that's why they are not so interested in rock? The ranks of women in classical music orchestras have swelled but maybe prestige and snob value is a factor there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2011 at 09:40
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

As an all inclusive site, it probaby best to avoid racial or genre stereotyping. Let's just enjoy the music.
As much as I hate this thread, I do think it's interesting that the famous musicians of many genres tend to be fairly homogeneous. But it's hard to discuss that without people getting angry.
 
Yes, we wouldn't want the truth interfering with political correctness. Wink

Mentally disabled workers complete their tasks with less perceived efficiency, in general. This is terribly offensive, I'd wager. I wonder if we have any mentally disabled proggers in the vicinity. 

I keep coming back to this site every half a year or so, and forgetting how much I suck at following rules, making friends, and not being an abrasively venomous cockface. 

For example:

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Easy Livin' - BANHAMMER

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2011 at 21:43
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

As an all inclusive site, it probaby best to avoid racial or genre stereotyping. Let's just enjoy the music.
As much as I hate this thread, I do think it's interesting that the famous musicians of many genres tend to be fairly homogeneous. But it's hard to discuss that without people getting angry.
 
Yes, we wouldn't want the truth interfering with political correctness. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2011 at 16:39
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

As an all inclusive site, it probaby best to avoid racial or genre stereotyping. Let's just enjoy the music.
As much as I hate this thread, I do think it's interesting that the famous musicians of many genres tend to be fairly homogeneous. But it's hard to discuss that without people getting angry.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2011 at 10:24
As an all inclusive site, it probaby best to avoid racial or genre stereotyping. Let's just enjoy the music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2011 at 06:59
Recently I've seen "Prog Rock Britannia an Observation in Three.Movements" a documentary about the golden age of Progressive Rock by BBC.

They said that Prog Rock was a type of music for a public of "white, middle upper class men". Geek
I can claim that, during that period, it wasn't; I mean , at least in Italy, where I spent that period of my life, there were many girl's fan of prog music. Approve
But now, It seems that ladys not only dislike the genre, but they even don't have a memory of the past's popularity of this music. Unhappy

What do you think about that? Embarrassed

Are there some ladies or black people's member willing to give an opinion about the reason why of thatQuestion
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 15:03
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by silverpot silverpot wrote:

It's because men have more spare time. Women have to tire themselves with housework instead of relaxing in front of the stereo. LOL

Are you saying working a full time job and helping raise a kid gives more free time than housework? Wink


Smile  Well, in my country women work a full time job, raise kids AND do most of the housework. (i did write that as a joke though)

It's only now, in my late fifties, that I have the time to really indulge in my interest in music. Just like I did in my youth. Hubby always found the time somehow though. LOL

Anyway, you're absolutely right about the diffuculties women have always had with trying to get heard, read or viewed as artists.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 14:25
My mom likes No-Man, Anekdoten, Camel and Pink Floyd, and some other prog.

I have a female friend who likes some prog metal as well. 

But to answer the question I really don't know. However, I will say that even in other genres like electronica or indie music there are generally far more males who are really into the music than females. But this could be simply coincidence or perhaps because of the way that females are socialized.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 14:14
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Originally posted by Slaughternalia Slaughternalia wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

God damn it, did you really need to start this thread again? Really?
Hey, not all of us have been here since 2008

This is the kind of comment which should become a meme: "I'm a academical music critic - I'm on the net since 2008".

I'm actually a relative noob to the internet, I only got online around 2003-2004. But I think I have made up for that at least in part with sheer volume...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 14:07
not personal opinion but this thread needs this song
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 13:57
Originally posted by Slaughternalia Slaughternalia wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

God damn it, did you really need to start this thread again? Really?
Hey, not all of us have been here since 2008


This is the kind of comment which should become a meme: "I'm a academical music critic - I'm on the net since 2008".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 11:37
Originally posted by Freddie Mercury Freddie Mercury wrote:


Oh, s**t, all that crap again?

(:
Property of Queen Productions...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 11:11
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

 
For the record, I prefer So Far Away to Locomotive Breath, but prefer Aqualung as a whole over Tapestry as a whole. I emotionally concur with a lot you have to say, Rogerthat.

I do too, it was just not a like-and-like comparison, that was my point.  How about choosing between Barbara Dennerlein and Joey De Francesco? So much tougher.  And if you asked the Baldies, they would probably say it's not even tough, it's Barbara all the way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 11:06
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

 In 1971 most guys had a choice between Aqualung and Carole King's Tapestry. Which do you think most adolescent males would rather listen to? Locomotive Breath or So Far Away?


And in the 70s, you also had Joan Baez  or Joni Mitchell.  Since I have not been initiated to Dagmar Krause, I won't comment on her.  And as for dissonance or, essentially, aesthetic ugliness, what about Diamanda Galas? I grant that most people would not have had access to an artist like Diamanda Galas but that certainly doesn't wash with Joan Baez or Joni Mitchell.  There is plainly latent bias against women in rock music. I have often seen fans second guess each and every of their actions and intentions in ways they never would with men - as if a woman cannot possibly be interested in music even if she devotes a liftetime to it. I don't think there's anything outrageous about this. Given the text of many a rock lyric, tongue in cheek though it may be, there is bound to be benign sexism in rock.

For the record, I prefer So Far Away to Locomotive Breath, but prefer Aqualung as a whole over Tapestry as a whole. I emotionally concur with a lot you have to say, Rogerthat.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 10:23
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

 In 1971 most guys had a choice between Aqualung and Carole King's Tapestry. Which do you think most adolescent males would rather listen to? Locomotive Breath or So Far Away?


And in the 70s, you also had Joan Baez  or Joni Mitchell.  Since I have not been initiated to Dagmar Krause, I won't comment on her.  And as for dissonance or, essentially, aesthetic ugliness, what about Diamanda Galas? I grant that most people would not have had access to an artist like Diamanda Galas but that certainly doesn't wash with Joan Baez or Joni Mitchell.  There is plainly latent bias against women in rock music. I have often seen fans second guess each and every of their actions and intentions in ways they never would with men - as if a woman cannot possibly be interested in music even if she devotes a liftetime to it. I don't think there's anything outrageous about this. Given the text of many a rock lyric, tongue in cheek though it may be, there is bound to be benign sexism in rock.


Edited by rogerthat - May 16 2011 at 10:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2011 at 10:17
Why should women waste their time in the sexist sausage fest that is rock music when they get justly deserved recognition without cheap comments about their looks in jazz and classical music (more academic and serious, eh!)? I am dumbfounded to see that some people would actually use the prog fan ratio of men to women that deduce that women are not interested in serious music or things that more or less suggest such a belief (not so far in this thread, for small mercies!).  Oh, and I am pretty sure Gone with the Wind, Good Earth, Rebecca are just silly, trivial vampire stories.  

There will be fewer women artists of great renown than men for some more time in most fields of art simply because 'we' let them do 'our' stuff much later and they've had to catch up with us. For all that, however, if you are even reasonably well informed, you should find female musicians, writers etc of undeniable talent.  The bitter truth is that since majority of listeners are also men, they are not interested in what a woman has to say and won't give credit where it's due and then go on pretending it's a man's world. Sure thing!     
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