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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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I can believe this (though I don't have American and European versions of the same recording to compare), there is a degree of mythology over "British EQ" and a degree of truth in it, and the one thing that gets overlooked when comparing British and American equipment is not the EQ circuits themselves, but the nut on the console. ![]() Essentialy British mastering engineers preferred to boost the effective volume by lowering the mids and boosting the bass - and that not only makes the recording sound louder (without the dreaded over-compression) but also makes it sound less "muddy" - there was no trick or secret to that - it was merely a preference.
The equipment was certainly different - as this current advertisment copy for the Behringer Xenxy 1204 mixer shows:
How much that is truth and how much that is marketting twaddle is in the ears of the listner, but I think it has less to do with the equipment and more to do with the person using it (the nut on the console).
I agree Pedro, and that's what I've been saying all along.
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18988 |
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This was the scary part ... and Tom Dowd even mentions it and discusses the metal master ... but the fact that was scary was that the Dark Side of the Moon and Sgt Peppers and many other albums, were quite different and clear, compared to the American versions. I still have the DSOTM album I think ... and it is exactly the same as the "remastered" version, where you can see where the instruments were OBVIOUSLY tempered with SINCE!
But it might suggest that the equipment in both countries was different and that a taped copy had to be made and brought over, from which Capitol (or whoever) messed things up ... but it was no secret, according to Frank Zappa that some of these companies did not spend any money on these things because they did not think it was important or that valuable, and all that ... which is now history.
The best recordings in America in the 50's and early 60's, were done for Classical Music ... and then the artists that were involved with the movie studios, which, in general, had the only, and best recording facilities of any one else out there ... it kinda explaines why a Bobby Darin, Elvis Presley and many others had a better chance at exposure than most jazz and rock/music artists. The "media" was already controlled by these studios (Citizen Kane!!!!!!!!!) and still IS!
This might not have been as important in Europe's history of music and the arts, but it is in America ... and it is why the "black" thing is so big in America in many ways ... and Tom Dowd's DVD can give you some really good perspective on this ... you can easily say that all those Blue Note recordings were done on the cheapest recorders you ever saw or heard ... and a remaster there makes sense, but many others do not!
Again, the fact, that these recordings were 2nd or 3rd generation ... doesn't bother me ... you don't need to put up huge shields, hide between the words, or paint your face black or blue, for me to know that you know your stuff, your music, and on top of it ... that you not only love it, that you also live it! ... see my parallel? The "truth" of the music still flies ... and the "remastering" only moves the 2nd violin 10 ft to the right or left (so to speak) and it gets a little reverb because of the wall (whatever!) ... and does not change the real thing behind it!
This was/is (also) the theme behind the other thread that someone does not want to see properly! The fact that it is "digital" today, has nothing to do with the person under it ... or whichever clothes he or she was wearing that day! It is no more important today, than yesterday ... and the only difference, might be ... that we have a better discussion and information for that time and place, than we do today's ... but even that might be our own preferences! (Even I admit that!) Edited by moshkito - November 12 2012 at 08:50 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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progbethyname ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7888 |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Aquiring the Taste ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: October 23 2012 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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The opposite is in fact true, the better the audio equipment, the more obvious poor sound becomes. |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Edited by Dean - November 11 2012 at 20:21 |
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progbethyname ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7888 |
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^ you need better audio equipment. :)
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Aquiring the Taste ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: October 23 2012 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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It was the same thing with Pink Floyd, Beatles, Rolling Stones and many others ... the American version was a copy of a copy and stunk ... and of course, the "remasters" were just like the original English pressings!
Money ... money ... I have yet to hear a "remaster" that is worth half its value! [/QUOTE]The Australopithecus afarensis responsible for this traversty is not named, which is a pitty, as I would like to introduce him to the only remaning use for this abum. |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18988 |
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NOOOOOO ... magnificent version of a Carpenters song ... funny too!
Besides, you can make a heck of Clam Chowder with it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18988 |
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It was the same thing with Pink Floyd, Beatles, Rolling Stones and many others ... the American version was a copy of a copy and stunk ... and of course, the "remasters" were just like the original English pressings!
Money ... money ... I have yet to hear a "remaster" that is worth half its value!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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progbethyname ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7888 |
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Right you are Mr. Octopus. It's all relative to the choice and tastes in the listener for what type of sound he or she desires. I'm a 24bit 96Khtz man myself. I just really enjoy the polished clean high res sound that this format exhibits. It also really suits my listening tastes cause I like to listen to my music really really Loud and distortion free sound is what I get with 24/96k at high volume levels. No crackle and no pop for me!! |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Topjukes ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() Joined: November 13 2009 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Thanks for the support! As an example, the upcoming Big Big Train release is being pressed from 24-bit masters. The recent echolyn album was mastered at 88.2khz and sounds breathtaking. I'll basically use the best quality source I can find - currently looking at the tapes for a couple of pretty high profile releases. I have a wish list as long as your arm of albums I'd like to see on vinyl, and this was my original aim - to see albums on vinyl which had only previously been available on CD. I've been delighted to see how quickly we've become involved with brand-new releases, and really heartened by the feedback we're getting. |
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www.planegroovy.com - for the music you always wanted to hear on vinyl!
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octopus-4 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant & Zeuhl, Neo, Post/Math, PSIKE Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15000 |
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I think it depends. I can't stand with things like AAD remasters on CD and in general I like listening to the classics "as they were". I know all the static noise of my vinyl copy of Atom Heart Mother and the clean CD version sounds unreal, but if a today's band records its music being aware of what the equipment allow, it's likely that their arrangements fit well into digital. I agree with surrealist about adjusting the errors with the electronics, something that I had initially misunderstood, but analog or digital is a disk by disk choice.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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progbethyname ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7888 |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Snow Dog ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
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I didn't re4ad it as an attack on you. He took your comment as a springboard point for a point of view that I actually think is valid.
Edited by Snow Dog - November 09 2012 at 04:55 |
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Aquiring the Taste ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: October 23 2012 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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Music to my ears, may I wish you every success ![]() |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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How do you mean? Do you mean the number of releases? If so then are you happy to let some label exec make that choice for you?
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Aquiring the Taste ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: October 23 2012 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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I've never understood the quantity over quality theory, but we all have different expectations & priorities.
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Catcher10 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 18060 |
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Dude....why do you feel you need to turn my post into something negative, making it sound like I wrote something negative too.
I said nothing about classical music..sure there are a gazillion things we will never read, hear or see in our lifetimes, I am not that naive about history.
I'm not gonna ramble about what might have been had there been something more accesible 40yrs ago...it is what it is, its the past. Or semi-complain because someone in the music industry decided we should not hear an artist because they did not like it, so they did not financially support them.....And you are right this has been going on for longer than 40yrs.....probably a 1,000yrs.
Again, nothing I can do about it so I have no reason to complain about it...it is what it is, I accept it.
You also act like I don't appreciate creativity or talent, I'm not going to detail what I have on digital on my external HD, I have zero need to please outside my home. Do you realize how much jazz is played in New Orleans clubs on a nightly basis in the French Quarter that will never grace a CD or digital file on someones laptop? Quite a bit....I know it because living in New Orleans for sometime and going back a lot (since my wife is a Cajun Coon-A$$), we go as often as we can and sit and listen to jazz.
I am glad that you will treasure what and how you listen to music for the rest of your life, music is a wonderful art form. But don't insinuate only you know how to do this or your way is the gospel, because that is the way your post reads.
I have always agreed with your comments on the technology side of how sounds come about, as I have said before that is a black and white subject, 1+1 = 2....always.
But I really do not understand your post above other than negativity to what someone is saying is their preference/ideas/thoughts on how music is seen.
Time for me to take a break from this site.....(at least from a posting position).
Have a great evening/day...
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Surrealist ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 12 2012 Location: Squonk Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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Topjukes,
Good on you.. you guys are doing the right thing. Thanks for having some integrity and going against the digital grain. If you don't mind me asking.. did you keep it pure from tape to pressing or did you drop it into Pro Tools and then press from the 24 bit master? or maybe you don't know what the plant did? I would love to hear one of your releases.. feel free to PM me. |
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