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Topic ClosedIs Robert Fripp Overrated?
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Fredfx View Drop Down
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Points: 1 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 22:38
Robert Fripp is TERRIBLY underrated.

He broke ground with EVERY new incarnation of King Crimson.

And as soon as they WEREN'T breaking new ground he disbanded the group.

Now IMHO that's an artist of the highest order who honors the muse so obediently.

Every single version of KC has broken new ground musically.

Not sure you can say that about any of the other prog artists.
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 15:34
^ I guess you don't like epic discussions. Tongue

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 28 2012 at 15:35
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Points: 831 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 15:28
jesus these conversations are hurting my head...
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 15:21
^ OK, let me put it this way: isn't there a difference between "commercially successful" and "musically successful"? The two aren't always the same thing, right?
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Points: 3150 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 14:49
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ You remember writing this, right?
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band ever

Yeah and what, the music has always been and will be the most important thing for me. Them being the most successful prog rock band means that people go out buy their stuff for a reason.
That sounds more like a crude definition of "most commercially successful". Isn't there a difference between "most successful" in general and "most commercially successful".

Not really, they have been the most successful band, and they brought me into this wonderful world of ProgWink. They might not be the most complex band or most experimental but they are the most successful and still damn complex. Selling albums has nothing to do with commercial music, it could but not always like for example that Bieber kid sells a lot but he will be forgotten in time(and it doesn't mean that an artist is always good). Rush has been around for over 40 years and there's a reason for it.
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 14:40
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ You remember writing this, right?
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band ever

Yeah and what, the music has always been and will be the most important thing for me. Them being the most successful prog rock band means that people go out buy their stuff for a reason.
That sounds more like a crude definition of "most commercially successful". Isn't there a difference between "most successful" in general and "most commercially successful".

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 28 2012 at 14:40
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 14:38
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band ever

Yeah, because the commercial success is all that matters.  How did I not think of this before?

Commercial success does matter; there is correlation between the music quality of a given album and the number of copies sold - that is, if your methodology is right:

- Only look at the buying behavior of a specific group (like e.g. "prog" lovers), and disregard the rest of the statistics, so that you'd be comparing apples to apples
- Ignore reviews, ratings and forum noise: BS talks, money walks. 

I noticed a while ago that I am willing to spend more money on the best-selling albums of Yes, KC, PT, PF etc. than I would on their more obscure stuff. I haste to re-iterate that I don't buy the likes of Britney Spears, Justin Beaver, Katy Perry and the rest of them.
In that case let me re-phrase myself: commercial success is not the only thing that matters.

I think you were clear enough to begin with "commercial success is all that matters(sarcastic)".  Smile

By the way, Pink Floyd beats Rush by a very wide margin for commercial success.  I think JT does so as well.  But I guess they are not prog. Wink


Oops.  Forgot about Pink Floyd.  They have definitely sold more albums than Rush.  Just looked up some statistics, and Jethro Tull is ahead too, as well as Chicago and Santana (if you consider them "prog").
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Points: 3150 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 14:18
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ You remember writing this, right?
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink

Yeah and what, the music has always been and will be the most important thing for me. Them being the most successful prog rock band means that people go out buy their stuff for a reason.
“War is peace.

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Ignorance is strength.”

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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 14:04
^ You remember writing this, right?
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink
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Points: 3150 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 13:29
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink

Yeah, because the commercial success is all that matters. Confused How did I not think of this before?

Nah, the music matters most WinkWinkWink
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2012 at 09:54
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band ever

Yeah, because the commercial success is all that matters.  How did I not think of this before?

Commercial success does matter; there is correlation between the music quality of a given album and the number of copies sold - that is, if your methodology is right:

- Only look at the buying behavior of a specific group (like e.g. "prog" lovers), and disregard the rest of the statistics, so that you'd be comparing apples to apples
- Ignore reviews, ratings and forum noise: BS talks, money walks. 

I noticed a while ago that I am willing to spend more money on the best-selling albums of Yes, KC, PT, PF etc. than I would on their more obscure stuff. I haste to re-iterate that I don't buy the likes of Britney Spears, Justin Beaver, Katy Perry and the rest of them.
In that case let me re-phrase myself: commercial success is not the only thing that matters.

I think you were clear enough to begin with "commercial success is all that matters(sarcastic)".  Smile

By the way, Pink Floyd beats Rush by a very wide margin for commercial success.  I think JT does so as well.  But I guess they are not prog. Wink
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 20:42
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band ever

Yeah, because the commercial success is all that matters.  How did I not think of this before?

Commercial success does matter; there is correlation between the music quality of a given album and the number of copies sold - that is, if your methodology is right:

- Only look at the buying behavior of a specific group (like e.g. "prog" lovers), and disregard the rest of the statistics, so that you'd be comparing apples to apples
- Ignore reviews, ratings and forum noise: BS talks, money walks. 

I noticed a while ago that I am willing to spend more money on the best-selling albums of Yes, KC, PT, PF etc. than I would on their more obscure stuff. I haste to re-iterate that I don't buy the likes of Britney Spears, Justin Beaver, Katy Perry and the rest of them.
In that case let me re-phrase myself: commercial success is not the only thing that matters.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 27 2012 at 20:42
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Points: 1413 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 19:58
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink

Yeah, because the commercial success is all that matters. Confused How did I not think of this before?

Commercial success does matter; there is correlation between the music quality of a given album and the number of copies sold - that is, if your methodology is right:

- Only look at the buying behavior of a specific group (like e.g. "prog" lovers), and disregard the rest of the statistics, so that you'd be comparing apples to apples
- Ignore reviews, ratings and forum noise: BS talks, money walks. 

I noticed a while ago that I am willing to spend more money on the best-selling albums of Yes, KC, PT, PF etc. than I would on their more obscure stuff. I haste to re-iterate that I don't buy the likes of Britney Spears, Justin Beaver, Katy Perry and the rest of them. 






  
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 18:38
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink

Yeah, because the commercial success is all that matters. Confused How did I not think of this before?

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 27 2012 at 18:43
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 18:32
Robert may be a bit of an a-hole, but I still like a lot of his music.
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Points: 3150 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 18:02
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:


he didn't save prog rock with Discipline, remember the band was on hiatus from 75-80 I 'd argue that Rush saved prog rock when others were either going extinct or "selling out" with 2112-Moving Pictures then they came back with Discipline, all you guys are acting as if Fripp is god or something, I know I'm gonna hear about it from someone

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


He has a point about Rush.  They were holding the fort down during the late 70's (even though they weren't actually considered prog at the time).

Do you really think Rush was the most progressive band during the 80's?? Dig a little deeper there were dozens of bands playing new, exciting and experimental music, from all over the world.


Didn't say they were the only one, or the most progressive.  They were one of the only more commercially successful bands to continue making prog during the late 70s and early 80s, when most of the other big-name prog groups were moving in a more pop-oriented direction.


commercialConfusedConfused no way


Not making "commercial" music, but "commercially successful."  Rush was huge when Moving Pictures came out.  Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world.
Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

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"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 16:43
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:


he didn't save prog rock with Discipline, remember the band was on hiatus from 75-80 I 'd argue that Rush saved prog rock when others were either going extinct or "selling out" with 2112-Moving Pictures then they came back with Discipline, all you guys are acting as if Fripp is god or something, I know I'm gonna hear about it from someone

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


He has a point about Rush.  They were holding the fort down during the late 70's (even though they weren't actually considered prog at the time).

Do you really think Rush was the most progressive band during the 80's?? Dig a little deeper there were dozens of bands playing new, exciting and experimental music, from all over the world.


Didn't say they were the only one, or the most progressive.  They were one of the only more commercially successful bands to continue making prog during the late 70s and early 80s, when most of the other big-name prog groups were moving in a more pop-oriented direction.


commercialConfusedConfused no way


Not making "commercial" music, but "commercially successful."  Rush was huge when Moving Pictures came out.  Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world.
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Points: 13870 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 14:11
I got the remastered Larks Tongues today. Bloody superb stuff.

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Points: 3150 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 13:56
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:


he didn't save prog rock with Discipline, remember the band was on hiatus from 75-80 I 'd argue that Rush saved prog rock when others were either going extinct or "selling out" with 2112-Moving Pictures then they came back with Discipline, all you guys are acting as if Fripp is god or something, I know I'm gonna hear about it from someone

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


He has a point about Rush.  They were holding the fort down during the late 70's (even though they weren't actually considered prog at the time).

Do you really think Rush was the most progressive band during the 80's?? Dig a little deeper there were dozens of bands playing new, exciting and experimental music, from all over the world.


Didn't say they were the only one, or the most progressive.  They were one of the only more commercially successful bands to continue making prog during the late 70s and early 80s, when most of the other big-name prog groups were moving in a more pop-oriented direction.


commercialConfusedConfused no way
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Ignorance is strength.”

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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 20:58
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Geek E-eh?* Care to elaborate on that?

*Maybe I really should get to listening to some Chicago albums, but from what I've heard thus far ... .

If anything, you owe it to yourself to dig their first couple records. Man, that Poem 58 kicks some ass. That sappy poppy love stuff is about as far away from real early Chicago as Phil Collins' solo career is from Selling England. 

Hey, I like Fripp as a musician a lot more than all that, though. Not too big a fan of pussyfooting. But if he had ever been OVERrated, then maybe poodle-head skronk fops like Yngwie Malmsteen woulda been inspired to do electric ambient or something.
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