Your thoughts on Vegitarianism

Gerinski wrote: Dean wrote:  Cheese is a meat product. Cheese production involves the death of a calf, both for the milk and the rennet required to curdle the milk.  I'm not an expert but I doubt that this is accurate. I believe that it's perfectly possible to obtain cow milk (and make cheese out of it) without jeopardizing the life of the cow and its calves. Whether this is what they actually do or not is something else.

It is a matter of quantity. You can take a small amount of milk from a cow without jeopardising the life of the cow or its calves, but not in the volumes we consume milk products in. Organic milk does not qualify as ethically or humanitarian produced milk so at the moment we have no means of knowing how the milk we buy is produced. Of course I don't need to know so have no need to find out, but for a vegetarian who adopts that lifestyle diet on ethical grounds (rather than simply not liking the taste of meat) then I would suggest they find out. I'm not making accusations against vegetarians here, just pointing out that dairy (and eggs come to that) isn't helping the cow (or hen).

Edited by Dean - January 18 2013 at 10:44

Gerinski wrote: Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ Depends on the nature of the food being consumed. If it possesses intelligence or emotional capacity, I wouldn't eat it. That's a pretty muddy statement... where do you draw the line may I ask? some people maintain that plants have "emotional capacity". They can certainly react to external stimuli, whether you call that "emotional" or not is up to debate. Can we be sure that a plant does not "feel pain" when it gets cut? maybe they just can not express that pain to us.

It also crosses into the realm of cold-blooded animals, like fish, molluscs and crustaceans. Cephalopod's such as squid and cuttlefish register emoton and exhibit a degree of intelligence. 

Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ Depends on the nature of the food being consumed. If it possesses intelligence or emotional capacity, I wouldn't eat it.

^Yes but a vegetarian can eat cheese is the point. Of course a vegan can't (as  you well know) I used to work on a dairy farm btw. We removed  the calves immediately from their parent. Then we grew them  for  stock.  We kept the best and sold the worst and all the males.

Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ Depends on the nature of the food being consumed. If it possesses intelligence or emotional capacity, I wouldn't eat it.

So, no puppies or kittens for you, I guess?

Mr. Mustard wrote: Is cheese vegetarian? If so I could just live off pizza for the rest of my life.

Is cheese vegetarian? If so I could just live off pizza for the rest of my life.

Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ If I remember correctly, about two-three people have pointed out that vegetarianism does nothing for anyone's health. ...

At least we can repress / control overappetite and decrease an intake of fat.

smartpatrol wrote: I think it's a noble cause, but I don't practice it nor do I plan on doing so. I think eating meat is a natural thing for humans to do. However I do think the way we make meat these days is terrible. We use way too much water, land, and food on it, plus there's growth hormones. I also think animals should be raised with care and killed as painlessly as possible. But again, I think it's a noble cause and anyone who practices it earns my respect. So what do you think about it?

Not consider it's noble but I wish I could get to be a vegetarian for my health. Oh I'm from Wakayama, and close to a Buddhistic mountain named Koyasan, where are lots of vegetarians / Buddhists.

timothy leary wrote: Where the thread went wrong for me(and it is mostly my own fault) is when Mr. Garten made his claim vegitarians are smug. Since my wife is a vegitarian and in no way smug, I over reacted to a degree. I am sure if i called Dean's wife insensible he would probably have something to say. I respect that. I could be misinterpreting Mr. Garten also. He once looked at my picture and called me Seasick Steve, I found out later it was meant as a compliment. I personally am not a vegitarian and sometimes smug.

I think Jim said it as a joke. That's probably why he winked.

This somewhat-off-topic argument is getting out of hand.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 16 2013 at 17:58