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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 03:53 |
Dean wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Kosher cheese is safe for vegetarians as it contains no rennet per mosaic law. There are many cheeses which contain no rennet. There are many types of rennet which are not from the stomachs of young mammals. None of them in my opinion are a "noble cause" |
... and Halal cheese.
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But they still both rely on the death of cattle. And jewish death is even worse. Slit throat job.
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*frinspar*
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 463
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 03:56 |
Colombian necktie?
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Ady Cardiac
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2012
Location: Witney , UK
Status: Offline
Points: 396
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 04:18 |
well i was brought up on a farm and used to eat freshly cooked chickens at least once a week......helped out with the killing of a few at a young age......so have no problem with meat and the killing of an animal. i respect veggies views.......just i seem to be the one who gets it in the neck sometimes from vegitarians......even once had some veggie have a go at me about me eating meat which was totally out of order......i dont have a go at what people eat as its their choice nor do i really care.....so stay out of my face.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 10:46 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Kosher cheese is safe for vegetarians as it contains no rennet per mosaic law. There are many cheeses which contain no rennet. There are many types of rennet which are not from the stomachs of young mammals. None of them in my opinion are a "noble cause" |
... and Halal cheese.
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But they still both rely on the death of cattle. And jewish death is even worse. Slit throat job. |
This is untrue. Kosher cheese does not rely on the death of cattle since it is made from non-animal rennet. I would also like to ask you how you have determined the Jewish process for animal slaughter is "worse"?
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 10:53 |
timothy leary wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Kosher cheese is safe for vegetarians as it contains no rennet per mosaic law. There are many cheeses which contain no rennet. There are many types of rennet which are not from the stomachs of young mammals. None of them in my opinion are a "noble cause" |
... and Halal cheese.
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But they still both rely on the death of cattle. And jewish death is even worse. Slit throat job. |
This is untrue. Kosher cheese does not rely on the death of cattle since it is made from non-animal rennet. I would also like to ask you how you have determined the Jewish process for animal slaughter is "worse"? |
It isn't untrue. Calves and Cows get slaughtered due to dairy farming. Fact. And Jewish slaughter is worse. In my opinion. I have determined it with my brain.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:02 |
timothy leary wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Kosher cheese is safe for vegetarians as it contains no rennet per mosaic law. There are many cheeses which contain no rennet. There are many types of rennet which are not from the stomachs of young mammals. None of them in my opinion are a "noble cause" |
... and Halal cheese.
|
But they still both rely on the death of cattle. And jewish death is even worse. Slit throat job. |
This is untrue. Kosher cheese does not rely on the death of cattle since it is made from non-animal rennet. I would also like to ask you how you have determined the Jewish process for animal slaughter is "worse"? |
I often see/hear people describing the Jewish or Muslim way of slaughtering animals is worse than the... other way, because the animal had its throat cut without being battered to death. In many European countries, it is asked to have the animals stunned pre-mortem, so they don't suffer when being slaughtered. Of course, jews and muslims explain that the ritual killing by throat-cutting is meant to be quick and efficient, so the agony of the animal is short, but their arguments are often rebutted as invalid. It's a controversy that is far from being exhausted, especially in a period of anti-muslim defiance.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:13 |
And Jewish slaughter is worse. In my opinion. I have determined it with my brain. This is perhaps what you should have said in the first place.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:16 |
^give it a rest will you? I'll express myself how I f**king please.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:21 |
And I will respond however I want., whenever I want, my brain tells me I can.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:22 |
[blank-blink-blank-blink]
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:24 |
timothy leary wrote:
And I will respond however I want., whenever I want, my brain tells me I can. |
Seriously, why are you on this site? Why you being such a dick?
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:33 |
timothy leary wrote:
And Jewish slaughter is worse. In my opinion. I have determined it with my brain. This is perhaps what you should have said in the first place. |
Frankly, I don't see it worse than the slaughter of some farm animals, be it a rooster or a pig. In order to make blood sausages, it was usual to bleed the pig when alive. You wouldn't like to hear the screams of a pig.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:44 |
Exactly, and how would one go about proving which is the "worst" death. All of this talk really points back to the vegetarian not wanting to be complicit in the death of an animal, whether it be the worst death or the best.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 11:59 |
timothy leary wrote:
Exactly, and how would one go about proving which is the "worst" death. All of this talk really points back to the vegetarian not wanting to be complicit in the death of an animal, whether it be the worst death or the best. |
So, it wasn't useful to make comparisons between one or another way of killing animals is worse than another or is the worst, since it always leads to the death of said animals - and it really wasn't useful to point at one community for its rituals.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 12:00 |
timothy leary wrote:
Exactly, and how would one go about proving which is the "worst" death. All of this talk really points back to the vegetarian not wanting to be complicit in the death of an animal, whether it be the worst death or the best. |
Then they should not consume eggs or dairy, but then they would be vegans.
Edited by Dean - January 19 2013 at 12:01
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What?
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 12:10 |
CPicard wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Exactly, and how would one go about proving which is the "worst" death. All of this talk really points back to the vegetarian not wanting to be complicit in the death of an animal, whether it be the worst death or the best. |
So, it wasn't useful to make comparisons between one or another way of killing animals is worse than another or is the worst, since it always leads to the death of said animals - and it really wasn't useful to point at one community for its rituals.
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I agree totally and that is why I responded.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 12:30 |
Dean wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Exactly, and how would one go about proving which is the "worst" death. All of this talk really points back to the vegetarian not wanting to be complicit in the death of an animal, whether it be the worst death or the best. |
Then they should not consume eggs or dairy, but then they would be vegans. |
Yes, and if everybody became vegan, chicken would become extinct in a couple of years.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 12:34 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Dean wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Exactly, and how would one go about proving which is the "worst" death. All of this talk really points back to the vegetarian not wanting to be complicit in the death of an animal, whether it be the worst death or the best. |
Then they should not consume eggs or dairy, but then they would be vegans. |
Yes, and if everybody became vegan, chicken would become extinct in a couple of years. |
Nah, they make good pets, especially the fancy ones.
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What?
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Neelus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 346
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:46 |
Cockfight!
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:02 |
Full disclosure: I'm a vegetarian (few years now, having previously eaten an overwhelmingly meat diet) who doesn't have the stones to go vegan, though I accept veganism is rather morally sounder. (Veganism is a challenging diet, vegetarianism's dead easy). Realistically you're not going to completely avoid animal products if you don't devote your entire life to it (probably not even if you do) but it's better to do something than to just pretend it makes no difference.
Jim Garten wrote:
True - many years ago, my mother was told by her
doctor that if she wanted to lose weight the best & most foolproof
way was to eat exactly what she ate everyday, but just less of it.
There is no correlation between vegetarianism & health;
lifestyle/moderation & health, certainly, but eating meat or
otherwise makes no difference. |
Well, studies of it suggest there is a correlation for things like incidence of ischemic heart disease, alzheimer's, cataracts and reduced blood pressure. What you eat affects your health. In the interests of balance, vegetarians are more likely to have bone problems if they don't pay attention to vitamin B-12.
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yes, and if everybody became vegan, chicken would become extinct in a couple of years. |
Absolutely,
because all of the animals people don't eat have gone extinct...
(frankly, if you care about things going extinct, the damage various
types of overfishing are doing to marine diversity and environments is
probably the biggest thing you should worry about)
Gerinski wrote:
I guess that 500 years ago when all meat
and fish were obtained in similar fashions, people rarely cared or even
thought about vegetarianism (let alone veganism). It's the modern
mass-volume ways of providing meat and fish to the alarmingly huge
population which have caused the issue to raise.
I
guess that some vegetarians (I'm not one of them) practice it because
they see it as a noble cause, meaning that their concept of 'nobility'
is possibly different from ours. Probably they see it not too different
from refraining from buying a real mink fur coat or things like that,
and this is not meaning that they deluse themselves thinking that their
choice is gonna change the world, but it's just their personal statement
to raise awareness about some issues that might otherwise get ignored. |
Vegetarianism has been around for a helluva long time (more so in South-East Asia but Pythagoreans were also vegetarian) - vegetarianism for health reasons is comparatively recent, I think. Vegetarianism for environmental reasons is very recent. For me it's basically just that I like animals and don't really want to have the poor buggers raised to die so I can eat them - I accept I could and probably should do more by going vegan... but I'm a lot happier with doing something than just giving up. It's not really a matter of it being a noble cause or thinking you can solve anything, I just know it's the right thing for me to do. Others can make their own minds up. There is a difference between eating something which directly and necessarily results from the death of an animal and something which probably involves the death of animals as a byproduct of the commercial system currently in place.
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