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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12901
Posted: December 13 2013 at 22:52
Chris S wrote:
^ Thanks was not aware of that. Again though it is not what the artists think of the work as opposed to what the listener gets from the work....subjective of course. I mean if we formed opinions on music based on what the artists think of their work then , for example, I would not have bothered with Van Morrison's work, cause his ' dissed' most of his too I do find some artists in retrospect trying to defend certain albums or the opposite. Mike Oldfield was completely surprised at how well received ' Amarok' was. Now considered one of his best albums. Finally on PA the review ratings system does work by and large, even if sometimes individually we may disagree with a rating. NSD for me is one of my most pleasure listens this year
What I have read about Oldfield and Amarok is that he was so mad at Virgin that he wanted to do his last album the least marketable he could, thus he made it all one song with no possibility to extract a single out of it nor play it in the radio.
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926
Posted: December 14 2013 at 00:40
'Never Say Die' has a bunch of really decent cuts on it - I don't get why it gets dissed so much ?? And 'Heaven And Hell' is highly regarded ?? Give me 'Dehumanizer' over H&H any day.
^ Swaying off topic slightly but Boston were rejected I think on being too AOR. At least Sabbath fit a prog related mould. I nearly lost my breakfast the other day after hearing the new Boston album
That bad? And I was thinking of picking it up….
My favorite Sabbath are Heaven And Hell & Mob Rules, by far. And I was a Sabbath fan before H&H was released. I just love Ronnie's voice paired with Tony's guitar.
That said, the new album, 13, is pretty decent. Ozzy's voice doesn't even annoy me like it has the last couple of Ozzy albums. And Black Sabbath, Paranoid, & Master Of Reality are classics. I've always hated TE and NSD, horrible albums
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
Posted: December 15 2013 at 11:35
verslibre wrote:
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
What a sorry state of affairs that we are discussing Black Sabbath in the main prog forums and yet Boston can't even get into prog related. There are days that I wonder if people still remember what prog is.
Which aspect(s) of Boston would you deem prog-related? Boston is the AOR poster child, as far I can, er, hear. I'd wager Foreigner has a better chance of being prog-related than Boston.
Why vers, Boston came out of prog as an attempt to merge the sound of Yes with the sound of Led Zeppelin. It returned back into prog with the brilliant and influential guitar sound that they pioneered. If you need proof of influence here, just listen to Howe's work on the first two Asia albums.
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
Posted: December 15 2013 at 11:37
Chris S wrote:
^ Swaying off topic slightly but Boston were rejected I think on being too AOR. At least Sabbath fit a prog related mould. I nearly lost my breakfast the other day after hearing the new Boston album
Sabbath fits a metal related mold...First there was metal and then it combined with prog.
Boston, however, first there was prog and then Boston added the elements that made AOR.
Boston was rejected for reasons of snobbery.
Edited by ghost_of_morphy - December 15 2013 at 11:38
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7648
Posted: December 15 2013 at 12:00
...hmmmm....not much love for "Heaven and Hell" on this thread! I consider it their best effort.
As a guitarist playing for over forty years, I started by playing easy licks such as "Iron Man". Iommi's initial work was easily playable, primarily barre chords & very simple single-note solos.
However, I immediately noticed that Dio brought a new energy to the band. Check out the signature "Neon Nights"
(sorry for the misspellings! The guy who posted this needed to take his medication or something )
Now, listen for Iommi's guitar solo beginning at 1:59 - he really burns it up at 2:24 onwards!
When I first heard this, I wasn't sure it really was Iommi, as his solo technique up to then was rather primitive (due to the famous loss of fingertips in an accident). Either he took lessons or really spent time in the woodshed.
H&H has been rated by some as the best heavy metal album of all time, it would also receive my vote. I'm not sure how prog BS is, but it is some good music. Cheers, Charles p.s. R.I.P., Ronnie James Dio!
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Posted: December 16 2013 at 04:12
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
verslibre wrote:
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
What a sorry state of affairs that we are discussing Black Sabbath in the main prog forums and yet Boston can't even get into prog related. There are days that I wonder if people still remember what prog is.
Which aspect(s) of Boston would you deem prog-related? Boston is the AOR poster child, as far I can, er, hear. I'd wager Foreigner has a better chance of being prog-related than Boston.
Why vers, Boston came out of prog as an attempt to merge the sound of Yes with the sound of Led Zeppelin. It returned back into prog with the brilliant and influential guitar sound that they pioneered. If you need proof of influence here, just listen to Howe's work on the first two Asia albums.
Help me out here.......Boston from the merging of Yes and LZ? Howe's influence/contribution to Asia, sure, not to disregard Geoff Downes either. Sorry could you clarify what it is you are pointing to but I do not see Asia as a mix of LZ and Yes, nor Boston even more so??
Thanks, off track I know in terms of the thread
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
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Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
Posted: December 16 2013 at 04:22
My Sabbath album ratings would be:
Black Sabbath — 10/10 Paranoid — 10/10 Master of Reality — 8/10 Vol.4 — 8/10 Sabbath Bloody Sabbath — 9/10 Sabotage — 10/10 Technical Extasy — 7/10 Never Say Die — 6,75/10 Heaven and Hell — 10/10 Mob Rules — 8/10 Born Again — 7/10 Seventh Star — 4/10 The Eternal Idol — 4/10 (4,5/10 for Ray Gillen vocals version) Headless Cross — 5/10 Tyr — 5/10 Dehumanizer — 8/10 Cross Purposes — 6/10 Forbidden — 5/10 The Devil You Know — 6,5/10 13 — 8/10
Talking of Sabbath, Ozzy era usually pops to my mind, though I love Dio era as well. I find Born Again terribly underrated (it's a good album with great melodies and guitar riffs, but rather poorly produced), but AOR-tinged 'Seventh Star' and the entire Tony martin era rather put me to sleep.
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12901
Posted: December 16 2013 at 13:13
ole-the-first wrote:
My Sabbath album ratings would be:Black Sabbath — 10/10Paranoid — 10/10Master of Reality — 8/10Vol.4 — 8/10Sabbath Bloody Sabbath — 9/10Sabotage — 10/10Technical Extasy — 7/10Never Say Die — 6,75/10Heaven and Hell — 10/10Mob Rules — 8/10Born Again — 7/10Seventh Star — 4/10The Eternal Idol — 4/10 (4,5/10 for Ray Gillen vocals version)Headless Cross — 5/10Tyr — 5/10Dehumanizer — 8/10Cross Purposes — 6/10Forbidden — 5/10The Devil You Know — 6,5/1013 — 8/10Talking of Sabbath, Ozzy era usually pops to my mind, though I love Dio era as well. I find Born Again terribly underrated (it's a good album with great melodies and guitar riffs, but rather poorly produced), but AOR-tinged 'Seventh Star' and the entire Tony martin era rather put me to sleep.
I kind of want to get that Born Again album, just for the curiosity of hearing Ian Gillan with Black Sabbath... but I want the special edition with live tracks including some of the classic tracks sung by him (plus, I would expect the mix to be somwhat better). I am also curious about the Seventh Star album, because of Glen Hughes singing on it... I think there's a special edition of that album with live tracks too, but I read someone say that on the live tracks it's not Glen Hughes singing (plus, the sound quality is suposed to be rather bad), so if there was a way to get a concert with Glen Hughes on vocals I guess it would be so much better.
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Chris S wrote:
I do find some artists in retrospect trying to defend certain albums or the opposite. Mike Oldfield was completely surprised at how well received ' Amarok' was. Now considered one of his best albums. Finally on PA the review ratings system does work by and large, even if sometimes individually we may disagree with a rating. NSD for me is one of my most pleasure listens this year
)
