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Topic ClosedDoes Iron Maiden really belong in only 'related'?
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Prog 74 View Drop Down
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Points: 171 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2014 at 08:15
Iron Maiden have always been a little more sophisticated than their metal peers.  They were certainly as good as 1970s Judas Priest and were definitely far better than the hair metal bands of the 80s whose lyrical themes seldom strayed beyond sex and partying.  But, though a few of their songs may be considered progressive I do not consider them a prog-metal band.  Good?  Yes.  Prog?  No. 
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2014 at 07:16
If they put out more albums like Brave New World they would be Prog Metal but alas most of the albums are just metal with occasional Prog moments. If I recall there was a huge debate whether IM belonged here at all, and they were almost left out till a team decided that Maiden produced some Prog albums.

Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - May 17 2014 at 07:17
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Points: 23112 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2014 at 06:40
Btw I moved this to prog related:-P
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Points: 23112 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2014 at 06:37
There was a period back when I was 12-13 where I listened to nothing but Maiden. Nowadays it's more in short bursts I grab out for an album.
I will say this though, if Maiden's commandeering sonic ethos was the one found in say Rhyme of the ancient Mariner, then I would be all for including them in prog metal.
Calling Maiden prog is like calling Björk prog. False interpretations of the truth, and I don't believe in rewriting music history in order to accomodate the whims of hindsight. Maiden would never call themselves 'prog' either;-)
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Points: 30093 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2014 at 06:24
I still have yet to hear a better prog metal track than Phantom Of The Opera.

Maiden themselves thought they had more in common with Pink Floyd than basic heavy rock. I remember this from an interview for a magazine (probably Kerrang) after the release of Somewhere In Time.

The last couple of albums Another Frontier and A Matter Of Life and Death both follow a prog sensability in the way they are constructed although they don't have a lot of musical complexity.

They could almost occupy their own category being the great Institution that they have become over the years so I can't get too excited how they are classified on PA.


Edited by richardh - May 17 2014 at 06:24
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Points: 2673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 17:39
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

^I suggest you check out two songs of that album (one for sure is To Tame a Land) - listen to that guitar solo melody and read the lyrics (oh yes! in this case I didn't hesitate to read almost the whole album).
 
People who enjoy Piece Of Mind know what I'm talking about.


I know the album well.  To Tame a Land is based off of Dune, so I'm not sure what Genghis Khan has to do with it.
 
Ghengis Khan and his troop invaded that lands and then they hailed him as 'The Trooper' hahahahahahaaa
Nah... I'm joking.
 
Right on Padraic ! Interesting observations you made about that track - based off of Dune, I never read that book, and only once watched the epic film some decades ago, but sure it must be an interesting book. I had to read again the lyrics - I mistook the correct king's name "Kwizatz Haderach" for "Genghis Khan" (the mongol emperor), not at all an arabian related hahahahh. My memory played me a funny joke when I wanted to mean that I felt an arabian atmosphere while listened to that guitar melody and all that arabian names (Arrakis, Muad Dib, Caladan and Gom Jabbar), btw the only part of the lyrics I still don't get is: ..."and (Kwizatz Haderach) will take the Gom Jabbar."

But there is that one tune on the Killers album which has that sort of Genghis Khan atmosphere you speak of. Wink
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Points: 15926 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 17:24
^ Epic, historic, fantasy lyrics right there. Go Harris. His bass on To Tame A Land is jaw-dropping.
Same with Alexander The Great from Somewhere In Time.
Maiden will always be a 'Metal' band, but one of the 'Proggier' sounding ones.
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Points: 1607 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 17:16
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

^I suggest you check out two songs of that album (one for sure is To Tame a Land) - listen to that guitar solo melody and read the lyrics (oh yes! in this case I didn't hesitate to read almost the whole album).
 
People who enjoy Piece Of Mind know what I'm talking about.


I know the album well.  To Tame a Land is based off of Dune, so I'm not sure what Genghis Khan has to do with it.
 
Ghengis Khan and his troop invaded that lands and then they hailed him as 'The Trooper' hahahahahahaaa
Nah... I'm joking.
 
Right on Padraic ! Interesting observations you made about that track - based off of Dune, I never read that book, and only once watched the epic film some decades ago, but sure it must be an interesting book. I had to read again the lyrics - I mistook the correct king's name "Kwizatz Haderach" for "Genghis Khan" (the mongol emperor), not at all an arabian related hahahahh. My memory played me a funny joke when I wanted to mean that I felt an arabian atmosphere while listened to that guitar melody and all that arabian names (Arrakis, Muad Dib, Caladan and Gom Jabbar), btw the only part of the lyrics I still don't get is: ..."and (Kwizatz Haderach) will take the Gom Jabbar."


Edited by Rick Robson - May 16 2014 at 17:17


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Points: 6451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 15:05
Well they are proggier than some bands actually in PM (won't name any names). I also think it's fair to say that if Maiden never existed, then Prog Metal most likely would not either. 
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 14:56
Originally posted by LittleMilton LittleMilton wrote:

newbie alert:

where do we find
these musical categories
that are referenced in the OP?
 
thanks
 
http://www.progarchives.com/

Just below the main banner, there's a link for each of em. Gives a definition, numerous examples, etc.  Not all of them are used universally (i.e. outside of this site), but they came in handy somewhere along the way, so we use em.
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Points: 34 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 14:50

newbie alert:

where do we find
these musical categories
that are referenced in the OP?
 
thanks
 
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Points: 18025 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 14:36
Lets add another level......

Prog Metal Related

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Points: 56 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 13:15
I'm a metalhead,so of course I do give metal the credit it deserves; however, I just thought Iron Maiden would fit into Prog Metal just fine.

But Prog related is still fine I guess

Thank you for your time and responses
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 13:13
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Let metal be metal, that's what I say.  Why should prog steal away all the good ones?


Perceptive but slyly disingenuous post certainly i.e. can we somehow assimilate all good metal into PA under the guise of progginess aforethought?
The sly part was intentional.  The disingenuous part was probably sarcasm.  My point was it's okay for a band to be really good, technically accomplished, and still just be "metal".  Give Metal itself some credit for its own traditions of virtuosity and ambition. 


I agree with you wholeheartedly but wondered why you felt the need to post such a notion using subtle camouflage. Yes, why can't a metal band be adventurous, inventive and prescient and still remain plain vanilla metal which pushes the boundaries of the genre i.e like any progressive artist in any chosen genre? It's a pity that our favorite pets sometines get mistaken for members of the family.
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:47
They're certainly about as far as a heavy metal band can go before they become prog. I'd probably say Queensryche isn't really very prog metal either. In fact Maiden doesn't shy away from it these days at all (see: Isle of Avalon and The Talisman from The Final Frontier)

I think In general Maiden makes longish songs with many parts and solos, but at their heart they are usually just long normal metal songs. Interesting all the way through with great solos, but not really prog.
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:39
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

^I suggest you check out two songs of that album (one for sure is To Tame a Land) - listen to that guitar solo melody and read the lyrics (oh yes! in this case I didn't hesitate to read almost the whole album).
 
People who enjoy Piece Of Mind know what I'm talking about.


I know the album well.  To Tame a Land is based off of Dune, so I'm not sure what Genghis Khan has to do with it.
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:36
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Let metal be metal, that's what I say.  Why should prog steal away all the good ones?


Perceptive but slyly disingenuous post certainly i.e. can we somehow assimilate all good metal into PA under the guise of progginess aforethought?
The sly part was intentional.  The disingenuous part was probably sarcasm.  My point was it's okay for a band to be really good, technically accomplished, and still just be "metal".  Give Metal itself some credit for its own traditions of virtuosity and ambition. 
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Points: 1607 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:28
^I suggest you check out two songs of that album (one for sure is To Tame a Land) - listen to that guitar solo melody and read the lyrics (oh yes! in this case I didn't hesitate to read almost the whole album).
 
People who enjoy Piece Of Mind know what I'm talking about.


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Padraic View Drop Down
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:09
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

^Always loved that Genghis Khan atmosphere in the superb album 'Piece Of Mind, anyways I don't think so.


What's a Genghis Khan atmosphere?  Confused

On second thought, I probably don't want to know. 
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:07
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Let metal be metal, that's what I say.  Why should prog steal away all the good ones?


Perceptive but slyly disingenuous post certainly i.e. can we somehow assimilate all good metal into PA under the guise of progginess aforethought?
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