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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2015 at 09:07
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Anyone who's ever been to a music festival has probably also experienced the unisex toilets taken to the extreme.....and those of us who somehow managed to survive all of this know full well that toilets never ever will be the same again. We now thank our lucky stars that we get to sit on something that doesn't expose you to ebola and 4 kinds of chicken-pocks and furthermore that we've overcome the hardships of peeing while excited women are applying war paint in front of the mirror. 
I welcome the progressive toilet. 
Festival toilets have (unbelievably) improved a lot over the years - the facilities at Weyfest and Latitude were positively regal compared to Glastonbury's open pits of effluent. I was initially surprised to discover that not only I, but all in our party, had managed to survive three days at our first Glastonbury without wanting to venture anywhere near them. Needless to say we also avoided all the motorway service stations on the journey home too as it was evident from the condition of those that we were not the only ones, however I did pity the other customers at the pizzeria in Salisbury were we stopped for lunch that day as nature could not be contained any longer...


Edited by Dean - November 09 2015 at 09:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2015 at 08:36
Anyone who's ever been to a music festival has probably also experienced the unisex toilets taken to the extreme.....and those of us who somehow managed to survive all of this know full well that toilets never ever will be the same again. We now thank our lucky stars that we get to sit on something that doesn't expose you to ebola and 4 kinds of chicken-pocks and furthermore that we've overcome the hardships of peeing while excited women are applying war paint in front of the mirror. 
I welcome the progressive toilet. 
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2015 at 08:16
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by RayRo RayRo wrote:

A rough week for liberals, that's for sure. And for the LGBT community in Texas, for the unisex restroom proposition which failed, and the election of Republican Tea Party candidate Matt Bevin in the state of Kentucky.
 

I always believed that unisex restrooms are absurd:

- I don't want my sister or daughter entering to the same restroom with drunk/perverted/stupid guys 

- We men are dirty by nature.

- If I go for N° 2 (I very rarely do it outside my house or hotel room), I don't want a woman listening the noises I make (Normally I have stomach problems when using public restrooms for other than urinate or washing my hands). 
I am in favour of unisex toilets but for exactly the same reasons you object to them, [though like Steve, I take exception at being tagged as "dirty by nature"]. To be usable and viable as unisex public toilets the communal single-sex designs that are imposed upon us would have to be re-thought. Pathetic attempts at modesty would have to be replaced with full-on privacy, and that means for all the activities that happen in those public places. [Frankly if you don't want someone of the opposite sex seeing/hearing/smelling what you are doing then perhaps consider that some people of the same sex don't want to see/hear/smell you doing it either...].  I'll not bother going into specifics of the necessary design changes but all the issues that affect the human senses have to be addressed and solved, and that includes the smell.

We all use unisex toilets in our own homes, on trains and in aircraft so it's not that much of a leap to realise the same in public places. Unisex public changing rooms are not uncommon in the UK, even in our rural backwater the local sport's centre boasts unisex changing rooms (complete with showers) where privacy and decency are preserved without problem. Of course we don't need these everywhere, but where space is at a premium it just makes more sense to have one unisex facility than two smaller single-sex ones.


Edited by Dean - November 09 2015 at 08:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2015 at 06:18
Originally posted by Raccoon Raccoon wrote:

It's just a sexual preference.

Sexual orientation. Wink

The rest of the text: Clap
- From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2015 at 05:35
Quite an interesting thread!! 

I think a large part of the problem comes with underexposure to the world around us. It's a beautiful, vast world. We hear stories and myths about people, but never truly meet them. If you simply talk to somebody who's trans* or gay, you learn quick (and you may be surprised) that they're truly a person! Just because someone's attracted to the same sex, somehow that means they're a mystery. It's just a sexual preference. 

'Oh, this artist's gay!' I've heard my friends' parents say that, thinking that my friend and that artist have something in common. It's not something unique, it's simply who we're attracted to. And nobody should be ashamed of that.

Luckily, through all the s**t people get for being gay, bi, etc., they can come out stronger. They realize that we live in a colorblind world, and people push for change and challenging the way others think.

Now, I'm sure deep down, I have some unconscious bias because of everything I've lived through/been taught. And I'm not doing the best explaining myself !!

BUT... I'm happy Friede and Jean are here to shed some perspective. Two smart women that can show examples of how stupid people can be, thinking that 'male' means to be belligerent and clueless. Nobody has 'masculine' or 'feminine' qualities, we've made those up!! 

The Women's Studies class I took (forever ago, it feels like now..) opened my eyes. Sure, I had the utmost respect for women before, but it covered everything we weren't taught in school. Everything that isn't talked about. Anyways... Power to you, RayRo and Baldies !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2015 at 04:08
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by RayRo RayRo wrote:

A rough week for liberals, that's for sure. And for the LGBT community in Texas, for the unisex restroom proposition which failed, and the election of Republican Tea Party candidate Matt Bevin in the state of Kentucky.
 
- We men are dirty by nature. Speak for yourself!!

- If I go for N° 2 (I very rarely do it outside my house or hotel room), I don't want a woman listening the noises I make (Normally I have stomach problems when using public restrooms for other than urinate or washing my hands). 
 
Ivan - I have just read this after consuming a very pleasant chocolate bar with my tea at work. Needless to say, the thought of your stomach noises has made the digestive process slightly more challenging!LOL


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2015 at 00:15
Originally posted by RayRo RayRo wrote:

A rough week for liberals, that's for sure. And for the LGBT community in Texas, for the unisex restroom proposition which failed, and the election of Republican Tea Party candidate Matt Bevin in the state of Kentucky.
 

I always believed that unisex restrooms are absurd:

- I don't want my sister or daughter entering to the same restroom with drunk/perverted/stupid guys 

- We men are dirty by nature.

- If I go for N° 2 (I very rarely do it outside my house or hotel room), I don't want a woman listening the noises I make (Normally I have stomach problems when using public restrooms for other than urinate or washing my hands). 


            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 11:37
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Another stupid question is "How do you do it"? Use your imagination.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 08:25
There are some stereotypical questions or remarks Jean and I are often confronted with, mostly by men, but sometimes by women too. One of them is. "Who is the man in your relationship"? This question is based on the wrong assumption that there always is one person who takes the role of "man" in a lesbian relationship. Now while there are couples in which this is the case it usually is not.

Another is "don't you miss the dick"? No, I don't.

Closely related are remarks like "you just never had sex with a real man". This usually means "You just never had sex with me". No, I haven't and I am glad about it.

Another is "You don't look like a lesbian" or, even worse, "But you look good" . Listen, just because I am a lesbian does not mean I am an ugly hag

One of the worst asked by a man is "Can I join you in a threesome?". A variant of that is "Can I watch you two?", probably in the hope that he might join.

Another stupid question is "How do you do it"? Use your imagination.

A question asked by men and women is: "How do you know you are a lesbian"? I usually ask back: "How do you know you are heterosexual"?

These are just some of the stupid questions and remarks we get. I could list a lot more.


Edited by BaldFriede - November 08 2015 at 12:09


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 10:20
A rough week for liberals, that's for sure. And for the LGBT community in Texas, for the unisex restroom proposition which failed, and the election of Republican Tea Party candidate Matt Bevin in the state of Kentucky.
 
The latter is obviously worse as Bevin wants to suspend Obama care for over 300,000 Kentucky residents and place these people back into enormous health and financial risk, along with towing the standard Tea Party line regarding marriage rights for Gays and Lesbians. How the people of Kentucky let Bevin become easily elected is what disturbs me the most. I know that many, many Democrats are sick and tired of the whole political system, not just in Kentucky, but in numerous states throughout America. However, Democrats not showing up at the polls will never ever help our cause. We must vote. It's our only true recourse to help the many social issues we are now facing in the US.
 
On a lighter note, I spoke to some friends I know in Texas, Martin and his partner Enrique (Ricky) who are peanut farmers. They take many of conservative positions in stride and told me to keep looking on the bright side. "That's easy for you" I said. "You can open carry." For those across the pond, that means that they can legally carry sidearms.
 
"One of the benefits of American conservatism." Martin laughed. But he seriously defended his beloved city of Austin which is the musical home of Willie Nelson, ZZ Top and the Butthole Surfers, as well as being the spiritual home of Steve Earle, Towns Van Zandt and Lucinda Williams. And one time local resident and founder of the 13th Floor Elevators Roky Erickson still frequents Austin and is treated as a musical patron saint. Austin is also very progressive with artists and all types of trendy people invading the city, which drives up housing prices, much to Martin's displeasure. But I guess that even a paradise inside of Texas is not without it's downside.
 
 
 
Until next time. Keep the faith.
 
 


Edited by RayRo - November 07 2015 at 10:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 15:59
Originally posted by GKR GKR wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.
 
I've never gotten that one either. I often use the men's restroom at concerts just because the lines are so much shorter. It's just a non-issue.
 
 


The thing is: you guys dont understand maybe, but the issue exist. What issue? Transgender people often are forbided of using the bathrooms that correspond to theirs sexual identity. Thats it.

The question now should be: Why are people unconfortable (Bald explain why when talk about showering, a bit diferent, but she got her point) and how we will solve this question.

I have no easy answer, but we got to find a way...

Well said GKR.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 15:23
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.
 
I've never gotten that one either. I often use the men's restroom at concerts just because the lines are so much shorter. It's just a non-issue.
 
 


The thing is: you guys dont understand maybe, but the issue exist. What issue? Transgender people often are forbided of using the bathrooms that correspond to theirs sexual identity. Thats it.

The question now should be: Why are people unconfortable (Bald explain why when talk about showering, a bit diferent, but she got her point) and how we will solve this question.

I have no easy answer, but we got to find a way...
- From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 15:09
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.
 
I've never gotten that one either. I often use the men's restroom at concerts just because the lines are so much shorter. It's just a non-issue.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 15:08
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957

A paper about one patient from 1996 is nowhere near an accurate representation of an entire culture. Nice try though. At least you're trying to use evidence.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 14:20
^You have a chance to learn something new today.Clap The real deal on transgender people:
 

Treatment issues

In 1980, the American Psychiatric Association added gender identity disorder to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). While controversial, this was seen as a way to ensure that transgender people had access to care. In a nod to progress, the next DSM will replace "gender identity disorder" with "gender dysphoria" as a diagnosis.

The shift underscores that being transgender is not a disorder in itself: Treatment only is considered for transgender people who experience gender dysphoria — a feeling of intense distress that one's body is not consistent with the gender he or she feels they are, explains Walter Bockting, PhD, a clinical psychologist and co-director of the LGBT Health Initiative at Columbia University Medical Center.

Physicians usually require that any transgender client who wants a medical intervention be assessed first by a mental health provider. A letter may be requested stating that the client's mental health would improve from a gender transition. "Over the last two to three years, a number of medical associations have made statements about the medical necessity of transitional care for transgender people," says dickey. While still somewhat stigmatizing, a diagnosis of gender dysphoria ensures that more services for transgender people will be covered by health insurers.

It is standard practice to treat the client for any psychiatric conditions that might be present before starting a medical transition. After that, medical treatment may include hormone therapy to diminish unwanted secondary-sex characteristics and produce or enhance secondary-sex characteristics of the desired gender. A 2011 study led by Colt Meier, a psychology doctoral candidate at the University of Houston (Journal of Gay & Lesbian Mental Health) showed that hormone therapy was associated with lower levels of depression, anxiety and stress, as well as increased quality of life in a sample of more than 400 transgender men.

In addition to hormone therapy, transgender people may opt for surgery to alter breasts, genitalia or other sexual characteristics. Other transgender people may choose a "social transition" that involves only cosmetic changes in dress, grooming or name, for instance, and no medical intervention.

Psychologists help clients in transition by providing guidance on how to pace the process through small steps so as to make adjustments easier for themselves and the people they live and work with, Bockting says. He stresses the benefit of linking transgender clients to support groups or online communities where they can learn from others who have taken the same journey. Providing resources and counsel to families to help them understand and accept a transgender relative ultimately benefits the client, too, he adds. Other clients appreciate a therapist's help in navigating the frustrating barriers of changing a name and identity documents after a transition, he says.

APA is developing guidelines for practitioners who treat transgender and gender nonconforming clients — work being led by APA's Div. 44 (Society for the Psychological Study of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Issues) and the APA Committee on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Concerns. A joint task force, co-chaired by dickey and Anneliese Singh, PhD, an associate professor at the University of Georgia, is expected to complete the guidelines in 2014. Practitioners can also reference guidelines published by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health: Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender Nonconforming People.

The psychology of stigma

Despite the signs of more acceptance for transgender people, many studies show that they continue to face significant challenges. Research by Aaron T. Norton and Greg M. Herek, PhD, at University of California, Davis, for example, found that the rejection transgender people encounter is significantly harsher than the negative attitudes experienced by lesbian, gay and bisexual (LGB) people (Sex Roles: A Journal of Research, 2012). A 2009 study by the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network also found that transgender students face much higher levels of harassment and violence than LGB students.

In an effort to better understand the transgender community, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) launched a study on the state of health of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people. This 2011 report, The Health of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender People: Building a Foundation for Better Understanding, found high rates of substance abuse, attempted suicide and HIV infection among other problems in transgender adults. The report concluded that the marginalization of transgender people from society is having a devastating effect on their physical and mental health.

A similar conclusion was reached by the 2011 Injustice at Every Turn, survey of nearly 6,450 transgender and gender nonconforming people conducted by the National Center for Transgender Equality and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. It found that as many as 63 percent of respondents experienced some form of discrimination due to bias about their gender identity, including the loss of a job, bullying and even physical and sexual assault. As many as 41 percent of respondents reported they had attempted suicide — a rate 25 times higher than that of the general population.

In a study now in press in the American Journal of Public Health, Bockting found that half of the transgender women and a third of the transgender men surveyed said they struggle with depression from the stigma, shame and isolation caused by how others treat them. Anxiety was a significant problem for them, too. People who were the youngest and least educated, and those from rural areas had the most psychological distress.

Other research led by Andrea L. Roberts, PhD, suggests that being gender-nonconforming (while not necessarily the same as transgender) puts children at higher risk for physical, psychological and sexual abuse and for post-traumatic stress disorder later on (Pediatrics, 2012).

Looking ahead

What can help prevent such psychological consequences? One approach is providing resources and counseling to families to help them understand and accept a transgender relative. Bockting's research shows that family acceptance — along with peer support and identity pride — are strong predictors of resilience for transgender people (American Journal of Public Health, in press).

Psychologists can play a supporting role as an educator or advocate in the client's school or workplace as well. "A transgender person's experience can be better because of five minutes the therapist spends consulting with a client's employer to smooth out problems," says Meier.

More research is essential, too. The 2011 IOM report highlighted the need for more data collection and research into the specific concerns of transgender people, including teens, older adults, and racial and ethnic subpopulations. Based on his research, Bockting believes that developing interventions focused on increasing family and peer support can be instrumental in buffering the effects of stigma that transgender people face. The authors of the Pediatrics study also want to see research on family interventions that can reduce the high risk for abuse faced by gender nonconforming children.

APA is also working to foster more acceptance, says Clinton Anderson, PhD, who directs APA's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Concerns Office. APA's Task Force on Gender Identity, Gender Variance and Intersex Conditions began its efforts by conducting a survey on transgender, transsexual and intersex issues. Most of the transgender inquiries APA receives come from schools, which need reliable information on transgender issues for school personnel. "Schools have had to create policies and action plans for their transgender students without any clear guidance," Anderson says.

Getting better access to health care is a major issue for the transgender community, especially in reducing HIV risk, says Bockting. In the 2011 Injustice at Every Turn survey, 19 percent of respondents said they were denied medical care because of their gender identity and half of those surveyed had to teach their medical providers about transgender health care. The IOM report also identified the lack of culturally competent health care by providers as an obstacle in getting better care for transgender people.

The University of Houston's Meier, who has been working with transgender youth at the Montrose Center in Texas, is hopeful that as more clinical trials show the benefits of treatment for transgender persons, insurers will step up to provide adequate care for this community. He'd like to see longitudinal research that follows children from the first disclosure of being transgender through the effects of all related decisions made thereafter. Specifically, research needs to address how helpful various medical interventions are in improving the mental health and well-being of transgender people.

"While we still have far to go, we have learned not to oversimplify what being transgender means," says Bockting.

Eve Glicksman is a writer in the Washington, D.C., area.

 



Edited by RayRo - November 07 2015 at 09:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 14:14
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 13:33
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

A depressingly large amount of people of  any kind can't afford what they want..

It wasn't about getting what they want, it was about the fact that trans people would be restricted from using the bathroom that reflects their identity by something out of their control (in this case the cost of surgery). It would be silly.
Quote If a trans does not want surgery then how is he or she a transsexual? If he or she just dresses in the style of the opposite gender it is in our opinion a transvestite, not a transsexual.

It is about identity. The most general way I can word it is that it is a situation in which an individual's personal identity doesn't match the one they received at birth (note: I am not referring to intersex people). This includes people who might identify as female despite being assigned male at birth, or vice versa, and also people who might identify outside of the gender binary. In general this means people will transition in various ways towards their identity. It very often means hormone replacement therapy, and gender reassignment surgery is generally wanted, but it also includes transitioning in other ways. For example, a big step is presenting as your gender, and yes this includes wearing clothing associated with that gender. But a trans person isn't wearing them because they just like wearing clothes of the opposite gender. They are presenting as that gender because it is how they wish to be recognized. Early in a transition, trans boy might adopt a short hair cut, while a trans girl will grow hers out.
In short, being transsexual is about the individual's identity, and not necessarily how far they can or want to transition.
I'm happy to see a discussion about gender identity. As a gay man, I personally think that people with gender identify issues suffer the most as they have the added problem of feeling as if they were given a body that is not correct for how they envision themselves, on top of the added baggage of societal and family conflicts, and the ensuing emotional turmoil that are normally suffered by Gays and Lesbians.
 
I'm not downplaying that many Gays and Lesbians are the victims of hate crimes and discrimination, as I have my own personal experiences with those two issues.
 
I just wanted to extend my support to transsexual and transgender persons, simply because I know what it's like to feel confused, alone and frustrated at times.
 
I had the choice to come forward with my sexually, but I never had to suffer the frustration of not having the financial means to change my sex.
 
Keep the faith and know that I care.


Edited by RayRo - November 06 2015 at 13:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 13:00
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.


How dare you, Sir. Our beloved Queen most certainly never indulges in such base actions

Edited by lazland - November 06 2015 at 13:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 12:05
Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 12:01
Originally posted by Pastmaster Pastmaster wrote:

Originally posted by tbonson04 tbonson04 wrote:

Originally posted by Pastmaster Pastmaster wrote:

Originally posted by garfunkel garfunkel wrote:

An "anti-discrimination" ordinance is so silly. I don't understand liberals.

You're not alone, I don't understand them either.

I don't care about what someone feels their sexual orientation is, but they are still biologically male or female unless they get surgery and I know I wouldn't feel comfortable with a biologically female person in a men's restroom.

This isn't a liberal or conservative issue. To think it is means you haven't thought too far into the issue. The issue is addressing the civil protections given by a governing entity based on the sovereignty of its citizens. If the government wants to tax our asses and make us conform to laws, then it damn well better protect its citizens, in this case the LGBT minority, from discrimination. Just like the transgender community can't control their sexual identity, they can't control the poor upbringing and subsequent poor views of the prejudice population. It's the government's responsibility. That is exactly what they are there for. 

I realize it isn't a liberal or conservative issue, I was only agreeing with the poster who said they don't understand liberals. 

Like I said, you can't please everyone, and logically I'd think you would want to please as many people as you can instead of just a small group of people. That's why I think uni-sex restrooms pretty much solve any problems, that way men or women who are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone who's biologically the opposite sex can feel comfortable, and trans people don't have to go into the restroom of their biological sex.

That is the very heart of the debate (pleasing the majority or protecting the minority). However, the constitution is written with a specific purpose to protect the minority. If the founding fathers wanted to please the majority they would have created an all in Democracy. They feared the minority being snuffed out by majority fears and misinformation. Anyway, there may be a solution coming that alleviates both sides' needs. Like the great coked-up King said, "Can't we all just get along?"
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