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spknoevl ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 14 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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I get so tired of hearing the old adage that "schooled" musicians aren't creative. Creativity is not something that can be taught - but it can be nurtured and part of that nurturing is being given the tools to fully understand music and master your instrument so that creative can be allowed to fully flourish. Sure some painfully uncreative people graduate from music school and some incredible musicians are self-taught, but for the most part, the great musicians have a pretty good idea what they are doing musically.
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http://martinwebb.bandcamp.com
The notes are just an interesting way to get from one silence to the next - Mick Gooderick |
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mono ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 12 2005 Location: Paris, France Status: Offline Points: 652 |
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Never said that.... at all. Even recommended taking lessons. Most people that I KNEW that came out of the CONSERVATORY I went to (not any school), only wanted to play existing compositions. That was concerning a discussion around the conservatory iteself. I found their teaching methods to be bad, never said schooling was the problem! Please read more carefully, it might be less tiring in the end. They may be very creative, but that creativity is not nurtured correctly, as you say. Learning technique doesn't stimulate everyone, especially when half the program is imposed from the top and depends on the taste of a few people... I also recommended taking lessons for as long as possible, even waiting 6 months before stopping!! But always bearing in mind that you might have to nurture your own creativity, by exploring, expermenting. |
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https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
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spknoevl ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 14 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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My post wasn't really in response to your post, or anyone else's; I was commenting on how often I do hear people state that belief. One also has to match their career objectives with the right school environment. Conservatories basically concentrate on teaching classical musicians to play an already established repetoire. Jazz schools, like Berklee, cater to jazz musicians wishing to learn that type of harmony and improvisation technique. Many schools teach a mixture of styles including performance, improvisation and composition. I think all the posters in this thread agree that one needs some type of music education.
Edited by spknoevl - April 20 2012 at 11:43 |
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http://martinwebb.bandcamp.com
The notes are just an interesting way to get from one silence to the next - Mick Gooderick |
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mono ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 12 2005 Location: Paris, France Status: Offline Points: 652 |
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Exactly. I never really understood why...
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https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
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spknoevl ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 14 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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It's because conservatories have been around for hundreds of years and until recent times, only classical musicians really required an education. Although Bach, and many of his contemporaries improvised, improvisation was not part of the classical repetoire and there was no need to teach it. Writing music was for composers and musicians were merely intended to recreate the music in a live context. It's really in the past 100 years with the emergence of jazz and later, rock, that improvisation regained popularity, and as those genres matured and became more advanced, musicians began to want to seriously study music AND improvisation.
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http://martinwebb.bandcamp.com
The notes are just an interesting way to get from one silence to the next - Mick Gooderick |
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mono ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 12 2005 Location: Paris, France Status: Offline Points: 652 |
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I know how it was when Bach was alive, but we're not "hundreds of years ago" anymore, and that aspect of the conservatory is still the same. There's no reason for the conservatory not to evolve... Plus, where did the "composers" and "musicians" learn how to play back then? Probably private teachings with masters... To me, basically, the conservatory suits an extremely elitist view of music and composition in particular, which is unfortunately still present. That's the only explanation I find. Edited by mono - April 26 2012 at 07:19 |
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https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
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spknoevl ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 14 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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Couldn't agree with you more.
Although, Miles Davis went to Julliard, while he was playing with Charlie Parker at night. But, he also says Julliard never taught him how to improvise, or taught him anything about jazz harmony.
When I was studying arranging and composition, I studied with the same teacher who I studied jazz improvisation with.
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http://martinwebb.bandcamp.com
The notes are just an interesting way to get from one silence to the next - Mick Gooderick |
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mono ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 12 2005 Location: Paris, France Status: Offline Points: 652 |
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In Lebanon (where I lived until I was 18), the only affordable music school was the (public) Conservatory.
That remains its biggest advantage. Paid ~140$/year, as opposed to 120$/month minimum for a private teacher (200$ after a few years...). I think there can be excellent schools that teach you technique on one hand and give you "triggers" and "trampolines" ( :) ) for you to use on the other, give you some "general culture", etc... . But as most of them need money, it remains quite hard to personnalize and pay a lot of attention to the particularities of each student. Private teachers can also be in this case, but have more chance of helping you efficiently (compared to most schools) in my opinion. At least in this case, you can change teachers much more easily than you can change schools...
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https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
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joner6666 ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: December 07 2015 Location: u k Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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What would be the best course of action for me--
Been playing keyboards on and off for fun for 15 years. I can read sheet music but only want to play the music i like and if the sheet music is taken away, it as if the plug has been pulled out the wall! If i try playing music i do not know it takes forever to learn , which also leads me to why can i not play anything by ear? I had lessons years ago which taught me to read music. I also get bored when i know i can play a track and often give up halfway through. Would a (new age) teacher be a better bet for me and maybe discipline me as to what i need to do. I have a wonderful organ sat in my house now that can do it all , but sadly is wasted on me! Help!
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BaldJean ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
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practice improvising. don't rely too much on the correct fingering; I pretty much developed my own fingering over the time, which much more suited my overly large hands
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![]() A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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First become a doctor and discover a marvelous cure for something...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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sublime220 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 21 2015 Location: Willow Farm Status: Offline Points: 1563 |
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Stab knives into your keys, make it fly, pluck the inside strings and have a piano bench that's roughly around $3000-$3500.
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There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
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Polymorphia ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 06 2012 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 8856 |
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1). Improvise 2). Get a DAW and use it to compose tracks in which you have to think about texture and atmosphere. 3). Do ear training. I've heard of an exercise that consists of playing a note and singing an octave above, fifth, fourth, sixth, third, minor sixth, minor third, minor seventh, second, tritone, major seventh, minor second. You don't have to do this, but it will help you hear harmony better. Here's a website where you can practice your ears. 4). You can also do things like sight singing and clapping rhythms, especially difficult ones. I've always had pretty good ears so I've never had difficulty learning things by ear. I can read music, but I have difficulty sight reading. I know that sharpening your ears really just requires practice, though, like any other skill. |
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DDPascalDD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 06 2015 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 856 |
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I've been playing keys for years now and also focusing more on improvising and playing by ear. What will probably help you most is understanding chords, harmonies and scales. So figure out what chord progressions are usual, which keys fit those chords (scales are key to this) and understand the distances between notes.
Also if you play by ear it doesn't really matter if it isn't 100% right in one go, just make sure that you're certain the notes you're playing would always make sense and don't sound odd. Last tip: if you want to cover a song on piano by ear, listen to the bass (line), that helps you most, so you can figure out the cords, then you know all the notes which could be played and you should be able to figure it out. Oh yeah almost forgot ![]() Example:
Edited by DDPascalDD - December 08 2015 at 13:41 |
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