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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
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Points: 8634
Posted: March 09 2017 at 11:40
Replayer wrote:
Tapfret wrote:
The OP has created a classic Adams-esque inquiry.
The answer is 42. But what, exactly, is the question?
Since we're discussing the artistic value of music, where did you get the animated gif in your signature?
That's me !...
Ok, maybe not. Not sure who giffed this one. There are many variations if you Google apache.gif. Feel free to cut and paste the image link from mine.
Here is its parent video. I can usually keep a straight face until the part where hi-hat sound is apparently coming from a floor tom. True art has know tangible connection to reality, right?
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18657
Posted: March 09 2017 at 10:50
I find it difficult to say that something is "art", and that something else is not.
In general, for me, all EXPRESSION is a form of art or another. My main concern, is that rock music, because of commerciality, has to have LYRICS to tell you what it is about, and sometimes this is not a good idea. There are times, when the visual/sonic representation of it all is more important, and speaks a lot more, than any words that you could possibly put to it, but it is an "art form" to place the right words, in some music, and it becomes something that we all relate to and have appreciated for hundreds of years.
There is, a HUGE PROBLEM, here. And that is that a piece's fame, is usually tied to the memory of a moment, and people start identifying that piece of music or artistic work as representative of a particular event ... and this is one of the worst parts of the definitions of "progressive music" that must have keyboards as an example, and it takes away far more progressive and original other styles of music, that do not have keyboards and don't need it, since something else ... is of a much greater value and importance in its livelihood.
Things like "Reynardine" as done by Fairport Convention (Liege and Lief album), are very much "art" in that it's quality of the words, are so strong by the singing, as it is by the guitar representation ... and it's only both Richard Thompson and Sandy Denny ... no keyboards, bass or drums, and thus ... will never be considered "progressive" and neither will it be appreciated for such an amazing original content ... that most folks can't even listen to it ... or like RW would say ... one note played too long ... like it means nothing, Rick?
In general, there is a feeling there, or it would not be there! And that is something that has a tendency to "define" art, and its ability to be appreciated and remembered.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 15525
Posted: March 09 2017 at 07:50
micky wrote:
music can be art... but it is more than that. It is about expression... be it with deep meaning like the downfall of society or something more mundane like how that red head rocked your world last night. Most people, myself included really aren't into the music as art kind of thing, where music strikes us is emotionally.. not intellectually. Prog when best hits the heart and soul.. and when at its worse... forgets the heart and soul and aims only for the brain. f**k that sh*t... feeding the brain is for book. Real writers.. not some dumb ass muso posing as an intellectual
I wouldn't have thought of art in general as intellectual (and not emotional) in the first place. There are overintellectual paintings, literature etc. as well, and also there I need some connection to heart & soul.
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 8849
Posted: March 08 2017 at 18:44
For me, music as art has as it's ultimate expression in The Symphony. And in that world, the symphonies of Mahler and Bruckner especially. That's my slant on it , anyway.....
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: March 08 2017 at 18:18
micky wrote:
Manuel wrote:
In every culture there is science and there is art. Music, as an expression, voice of the people, is and art that expresses feelings, longings, frustrations, etc, of the people who create it, according to the era/place they live.
you win the thread with that post... nice!
music can be art... but it is more than that. It is about expression... be it with deep meaning like the downfall of society or something more mundane like how that red head rocked your world last night. Most people, myself included really aren't into the music as art kind of thing, where music strikes us is emotionally.. not intellectually. Prog when best hits the heart and soul.. and when at its worse... forgets the heart and soul and aims only for the brain. f**k that sh*t... feeding the brain is for book. Real writers.. not some dumb ass muso posing as an intellectual
It sounds like you don't like Gentle Giant anymore.
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46843
Posted: March 08 2017 at 16:49
Manuel wrote:
In every culture there is science and there is art. Music, as an expression, voice of the people, is and art that expresses feelings, longings, frustrations, etc, of the people who create it, according to the era/place they live.
you win the thread with that post... nice!
music can be art... but it is more than that. It is about expression... be it with deep meaning like the downfall of society or something more mundane like how that red head rocked your world last night. Most people, myself included really aren't into the music as art kind of thing, where music strikes us is emotionally.. not intellectually. Prog when best hits the heart and soul.. and when at its worse... forgets the heart and soul and aims only for the brain. f**k that sh*t... feeding the brain is for book. Real writers.. not some dumb ass muso posing as an intellectual
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: November 04 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 356
Posted: March 08 2017 at 10:42
TaipeiMoon wrote:
I would like to ask your opinion and views about "Music as art."
Allow me to impart a few words of wisdom.
Let M be the set of all music.
Let A be the set of all art.
We have the following relationship: M⊆ A, which means M is a subset of A.
In other words, for every element e in set M, e is also an element of A.
This is expressed in set notation as:
∀e ∈ M,
e ∈ A
This can also be written as an implication
e ∈ M → e ∈ A
That is, if e is an element of M, then e is an element of A.
However, the converse of this statement is not true. The converse is
e ∈ A → e ∈ M
That is, if e is an element of A, then e is an element of M.
This can easily be disproven by contradiction, since we can find elements of the set A, such as a painting, sculpture, or poem that is an element of A, but not of M. This means that the statement A⊆ M is not true.
Thus, although every element of M is also an element of A, not every element of A is also an element of M.
This means M is not equal to A and that M is a proper subset of A, which is expressed as
M ⊊ A
This is the relationship between music and art. I hope this addresses your concern.
Also, using the same type of argument, it can be shown that P ⊊ M , where P is the set of progressive music. This in turn implies that P ⊊ A.
Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
Posted: March 08 2017 at 07:38
Well, Carl Palmer literally makes art with his music. But as stated, making anything out of nothing is a good description of art. That includes cooking by the way !
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: March 07 2017 at 21:04
Zappa once said something to the effect that art is anything you can put a frame around, not simply a literal frame, but anything that sets the boundaries that define it. A theatrical performance, for instance, has a time when it begins and point at which it ends. Artists are sometimes conventional in their use of frames, and sometimes more innovative. Some frames may be practical and trivial, or sometimes the same frame may be regarded as more meaningful. Jazz artists traditionally looked at album recordings as simply as a secondary momento of a live event, which was the primary artistic representation. Rock artists, especially Prog musicians, regarded the recorded album as their primary artistic representation.
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
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Points: 15453
Posted: March 07 2017 at 20:47
Urinating with precision and elegance HAS to be the highest expression of artistic value i have EVER come accross. Especially when it's on the neighbor's mail
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Music as Art
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