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It's time for Progressive RAP?

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Polymorphia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2018 at 09:38
Missed the vid in the OP lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 16:23
Originally posted by Cord Change Cord Change wrote:


Prog hip hop has been around awhile
and yet every 2-3 months we're getting another thread on it - with 90% of posts from conservative dads, who are afraid to listen to anything released past 1975 or whatever was the year when Peter Gabriel left Genesis. Just call it "experimental hip-hop" in order not to trigger anyone convinced that bands like The Flower Kings are "progressive" smh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cord Change Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 16:05
Siah & Yeshua Dapoed - A day like any other

Prog hip hop has been around awhile
Minus the h.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 12:54




Mostly, though rap's experimentation is of a different sort than prog's. The backbeat, for instance, is pretty important to the genre, so odd meters are uncommon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 08:45
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ the thing that makes hip hop (rap is really just a vocal style around a beat whereas hip hop is the actual whole enchilada that incorporates the musical aspects) is that it connects to the human spirit. 
...

That's exactly what I meant by "lyrical".

I do not take value away from lyrics, and accept the poetry side of it, or even what might be considered "anti-poetry" in it.

I am not sure, however, that "hip hop", connects to the human spirit any more than any other music ... in that sense it is all the same/similar feeling that attracts all of us to this or that, regardless of what we call it.

I think it important that we see that point, and understand it as something that is special/peculiar to all cultures and all the arts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 08:13
^ the thing that makes hip hop (rap is really just a vocal style aroiund a beat whereas hip hop is the actual whole enchilada that incorporates the musical aspects) is that it connects to the human spirit. Much like punk, it de-emphasises the musical constructs in favor of lyrical content that connects the listener to the real world rather than the escapist tendencies of fantasy rock (such as prog). Having said that, hip hop is more diverse than many realize and yes you are correct that the rapping style really goes way back. Isn't the scatting that Ethel Mermann really just nonsensical rapping? 

I wouldn't call any hip hop progressive in this site's sense but there is certainly innovative and musically interesting examples:

Just a few faves that are worth checking out...










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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 07:24
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ well mostly, David. We do extend beyond the paramaters of rock with progressive electronic and Indo-raga which often doesn't have any rock in the equation. Likewise with some psychedelic folk that eschews the rock elements. I think these inclusions instill a great amount of confusion for newbies. It sure did for me. However, progressive rap ain't happenin' here!

And I wonder if this is the problem with "accepting" the word and the implications of "progressive" anywhere. It has to be able to encompass more than just a rock idiom, which is known to be not as original as a lot of other musics out there, in their format. In this sense, we are adding some trivial information that supposedly makes it "progressive" and this is almost like saying that nothing like that happens anywhere else, and that is simply not true, it is very naive, and sadly ... totally top ten oriented, which will automatically exclude 90% of all the music that is available out there.

That folks and a jazz and a couple of other things get mentioned is almost a miracle, but in the end, the progressive artists in ECM, for example, are not even considered, and many of them were way up further and more experimental, but because their work did not follow any rock formula, they can not be accepted or understood, and even worse ... listened to.

I always found it bizarre that we think Jeff Beck is great (and I do!), and his style of high end solo that he used in Roger Waters album in the 90's, was something that Terje Rypdal had done some 20 years earlier, but so few of us ever would consider listening to it. It was, even for me, hard to consider EOS, and ODYSSEY ... "jazz" ... because it was more of an extended trip than it was either jazz or rock ... but we have to have our formulas!

In my book, RAP was progressive in the late 60's when some folks, like Gil Scott Heron was already doing it over a rock beat and telling it like it is ... but what became known as "rap" some 45 years later, has its nice moments lyrically, but all in all, is a sad comment about what music really is for my tastes. I don't dislike it, I simply can not see a whole lot of value in it other than a few lyrics, and for me, and many others, that is simply not enough to make it important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 19:32
Originally posted by Boojieboy Boojieboy wrote:

No thanks. If it's rap, it's not for my ears.

Same here Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 17:40
Progressive Rap, or PRap, rhymes with ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 15:35
LOL  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boojieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 15:24
No thanks. If it's rap, it's not for my ears.

What's next? Progressive adult contemporary? Progressive easy listening? Egad...


Edited by Boojieboy - July 31 2018 at 15:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 14:03

It's time for Progressive RAP?


No it's not.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 21:55
No.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 21:21
I guess I would be interested in seeing were that could lead, but I don't really know if I could come to like it. However, I can immagine it being very keyboard and drums driven... if only they would include some real instruments and melodies. I would be interested in something of the sort, with a whole african drums ensemble, and a gospel choir.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkTower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 17:39
Marillion did include some rap in Quartz.
Pendragon did the same with Empathy.
Though i don't like rap music, those 2 songs are still very enjoyable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tempest_77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 15:56
I'm gonna get shot for this, and I actually fully disagree with any notion of it being prog, I'm just doing it for the meme, but...





















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 15:40
No.....please let's not combine rap and prog.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 15:12
Presentense7, plz use search. There were at least three "could rap be prog?"-related threads, and there was a lot of healthy discussion (and some bitter butthurt, too)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 11:17
no. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 08:50
Hah I know! I was in the process of explaining all that and it became more and more convoluted as I went along. Truth is we do have some styles of music here without the rock ingredient, but they're most oftenly either closely knitted together with the neighboring prog rock scene (often with prog musicians shifting from one style to another) or simply bands that were popular among prog rock fans at the time and riding the same kind of experimental wave in music. Prog folk springs to mind.

I often wonder whether PA took the right decision when it opened up to all these things because where exactly does one stop? Funk, pop, trance, hip hop, classical? As it is now I feel we can defend the different boxes alright, but it is as you say quite the jungle to an outsider peeping in

Edited by Guldbamsen - July 29 2018 at 08:52
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