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Grateful Dead for Prog Related?

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lazland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2024 at 07:55
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I think the site was much more restrictive in its earlier years. We have become a bit more inclusive in the last decade. Having said that, I don't really have a knowledgeable opinion to give since I don't really know their music well enough. I do think Terrapin Station qualifies to some degree as a prog album. As some have claimed on here, one prog album is enough for consideration.

I understand the site rules seem to indicate that past decisions shouldn't be messed with (with the exception of active bands; releasing a new album merits re-evaluation), but with an evolving philosophy of what is or isn't prog merits reconsidering such a strict rule. I don't know if I'm alone in this opinion.

I have my own issues concerning the Australian band Chetarca, which I think should be here but got dismissed and future conversations got locked down because it was already voted on.

In fact, the site was far less restrictive in its earlier years. Essentially, if an artist or band got extra clicks, then Max would have them in, whatever they sounded like.

For the record, I don’t think The Dead should be here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2024 at 07:20
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

...
"Grateful Dead has been evaluated by the admin team as a suggestion for prog related, and has been given the big thumbs down. Verdict: Great band, but not progressive nor closely enough related to merit an inclusion", ...

Hi,

I have some serious reservations about this ... and believe it or not, it was the Daily Doug that helped show how much advanced music stuff is in GD that we REFUSE to accept, and instead take on a bunch of high school bands, as progressive, added to PA.

I find it really sad ... that one of the most historic of bands in rock music EVER, is completely ignored intentionally by so many folks, that might consider themselves the guards to the Progressive Temple.

Well, you know ... the GD probably doesn't care if PA adds them or not ... and they are still laughing to the bank, and with a lot of fans ... because they will be remembered BIG TIME, while at least half of the additions to PA are, probably, quite forgettable and following some kind of idea for "progressive" that is not even a good music definition ... it's a mechanical definition for a jalopy!

I'm never going to suggest that the Admins, over the years, are not music savvy ... they certainly heard more stuff than most folks, but I think they heard a "sound" ... not the music itself, and this is likely to be a problem in the end ... the GD, has more stuff that fits that mechanical definition than half the stuff that is already in PA ... 

But honestly, if I was a part of the GD, I would not worry about PA, and go have a puff with all my friends and a drum circle in Eugene during the Fair. That is much more fun and living than what we're seeing. But adding another nobody to PA's listing? 

Weird and scary!


What was the point of your post here? Just more jibber-jabber. You haven't even shown if you'd be for or against the inclusion of the band. 

"Another nobody to PA's listing? " What's that supposed to mean? Rather rude i dare say. So a new band or a lesser known band/artist is a "nobody"? 

PA is still a place where people discover new music... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2024 at 07:07
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

...
"Grateful Dead has been evaluated by the admin team as a suggestion for prog related, and has been given the big thumbs down. Verdict: Great band, but not progressive nor closely enough related to merit an inclusion", ...

Hi,

I have some serious reservations about this ... and believe it or not, it was the Daily Doug that helped show how much advanced music stuff is in GD that we REFUSE to accept, and instead take on a bunch of high school bands, as progressive, added to PA.

I find it really sad ... that one of the most historic of bands in rock music EVER, is completely ignored intentionally by so many folks, that might consider themselves the guards to the Progressive Temple.

Well, you know ... the GD probably doesn't care if PA adds them or not ... and they are still laughing to the bank, and with a lot of fans ... because they will be remembered BIG TIME, while at least half of the additions to PA are, probably, quite forgettable and following some kind of idea for "progressive" that is not even a good music definition ... it's a mechanical definition for a jalopy!

I'm never going to suggest that the Admins, over the years, are not music savvy ... they certainly heard more stuff than most folks, but I think they heard a "sound" ... not the music itself, and this is likely to be a problem in the end ... the GD, has more stuff that fits that mechanical definition than half the stuff that is already in PA ... 

But honestly, if I was a part of the GD, I would not worry about PA, and go have a puff with all my friends and a drum circle in Eugene during the Fair. That is much more fun and living than what we're seeing. But adding another nobody to PA's listing? 

Weird and scary!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2024 at 04:00
I think the site was much more restrictive in its earlier years. We have become a bit more inclusive in the last decade. Having said that, I don't really have a knowledgeable opinion to give since I don't really know their music well enough. I do think Terrapin Station qualifies to some degree as a prog album. As some have claimed on here, one prog album is enough for consideration.

I understand the site rules seem to indicate that past decisions shouldn't be messed with (with the exception of active bands; releasing a new album merits re-evaluation), but with an evolving philosophy of what is or isn't prog merits reconsidering such a strict rule. I don't know if I'm alone in this opinion.

I have my own issues concerning the Australian band Chetarca, which I think should be here but got dismissed and future conversations got locked down because it was already voted on.


Edited by progaardvark - November 20 2024 at 04:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2024 at 18:34
You'll find plenty of peoples' thoughts on this subject here (Oct 2012), here (Apr 2011), here (Feb 2010), here (Dec 2008), here (Jun 2008) and here (Dec 2006). In June 2009, after the third of these proposals, Olav (Windhawk) wrote this: "Grateful Dead has been evaluated by the admin team as a suggestion for prog related, and has been given the big thumbs down. Verdict: Great band, but not progressive nor closely enough related to merit an inclusion", and in October 2012, as a comment in the most recent proposal, Andy Webb, who was an admin at the time, said this: "Yea, it's not a new subject. It's never had support before, so I can't imagine why it would now".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2024 at 18:20
It's a hard sell, but they should probably be here in the same way that the Beach Boys should.   However--- the real issue would be adding albums.   The studio releases would be hard enough, but the live releases total 86 official issues not to mention Dick's Picks.   I pity the collabs who would have to do this.

My conclusion is that, No, they would be too complicated and too controversial an addition to PA.

The Beach Boys would be easier and probably more appropriate (as Proto-Prog).




Edited by Atavachron - November 19 2024 at 20:26
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2024 at 17:49
Originally posted by Captain Midnight Captain Midnight wrote:

The Grateful Dead deserve a spot under prog related imo, yes they are a jam band however they have prog tendencies
...
I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this

Hi,

Thx. I honestly think that the GD deserve to be here ... there are way too many cookie cutters listed in the annals of PA and they only put together one or two albums, compared to a band that had an amazing catalog, and so much more musicianship that we refuse to pay attention ... go listen to it done by the Daily Doug ... giving us some of the mechanics found in the band's playing ... half the cookie cutting factory, don't even come close to the ability and musicianship involved. 

I often like to mention, the idea/fact of two drummers in the band ... when listening, or seeing any of the videos on the Internet, you can't even tell that there are two drummers in the band ... if that is not well define musicianship, the rest is just all excuses and crap ... with the most high schoolish of talents ... specially in the drumming department ... no such thing here on GD ... and sadly ... PA has not been able to bring the band aboard yet. And probably has been rejected more times than any other ... 

It must be a shame to be so big and well appreciated ... for PA to not make it fit ... when so much less impressive material gets added. And be a total anti band to any ideas of what this or that is supposed to be ... the GD did not need to listen to anyone since its first days together. 


Edited by moshkito - November 19 2024 at 17:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Midnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2024 at 16:48
The Grateful Dead deserve a spot under prog related imo, yes they are a jam band however they have prog tendencies

Phish, Radiohead and Journey are here (which I have no problem with, I think they deserve to be here) and i think the dead are deserving enough of a placement here as well

Under the sites prog related definition

"Timeliness - Like many genres, prog-rock has had its ups and downs. In the late 70s and early 80s prog-rock was barely a blip on the radar. During this time artists such as David Bowie and Metallica released albums that captured key elements of the spirit of prog rock and did so while contributing their own original modern elements to the mix."

"Common sense - Nitpicking over the above listed criteria is not necessarily the correct way to evaluate a band for prog-related. Sometimes you just have to use some common sense and look at the big picture."

Some examples of the bands more proggy songs

Blues For Allah
https://youtu.be/Y7qx8HaISsM?si=nQaikTV3cbbwCeUq

Viola Lee Blues
https://youtu.be/5TVEU2C3XEA?si=GYp1dVFDB0Wz9U_p

Thats It For The Other One
https://youtu.be/T0BZifioxdo?si=4vI3RAR7IQEBFcLp

New Potato Caboose
https://youtu.be/xyK5xc52gSI?si=2ShsBIaJM5WBvr5X

Alligator
https://youtu.be/uxTLW_lgRNE?si=CKJIBMB-ssEZSDlt


China Cat Sunflower/I Know You Rider
https://youtu.be/xCgZxrf8nrU?si=6WMFpYDROFbGlB3e

Playing In The Band
https://youtu.be/amTokiFwW18?si=OxATcMLvBmYor-Gw

Weather Report Suite
https://youtu.be/b9sY-kwa6RE?si=y0x3Gbi9wlkVY-jj

I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this
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