What ever happened to E.L.P.?

moshkito wrote: Floydoid wrote: ... As for ELP's later albums... well let me just say IMO they probably should have called it a day after Works 1. Hi, A tough area to call ... specially as they were a part of a system that was based on hits and making some money for the record company involved ... which means that any musician thinking they can get a free ride and only do what they feel like doing ... might as well retire now, and stop the illusion! As a writer, I have never wavered from my inner feeling, and I suppose that I could say that I have bucked the "system" more than once, which might have given me a bit more materially, but in the end, it would hurt me inside ... I live for my inner vision, in dreams or otherwise, and write from them a lot ... and I can not leave that behind ... I don't change skins during different seasons, to be able to do that and leaving the comforts they won behind would likely be a serious issue for a discussion, that they needed to have, but might have been one of those moments when things went in agreement in the other way that we as fans have not enjoyed or appreciated ... but in the end, who the fudge am I to be telling a Picasso, or Stravinsky, what to do with their life? It's a ridiculous notion, and us trying to think for Emerson, Lake or Palmer, is a bit on the mean side. I can see Palmer laughing these days, and look at his past with some appreciation for the beautiful work he did that 9 out of 0 drummers would not and instead just play the simplest and highschool'est of bits in drumming, like you have these days ... no talent ... just timing, the first thing you learn in school!

I seem to be alone in thinking that Emerson continued doing exactly what he wanted which was to explore orchestral music. I find it sad that no one cares about his soundtrack music for the films Inferno, Nighthawks and Best Revenge. Coming out of school and going to college I was still listening to him and really there just nothing else I cared about. Furthermore Emerson was still keen to bring back progressive ideas with 1986's Emerson, Lake and Powell which although hit and miss was still way more interesting than almost anything else coming out in mainstream rock music at the time. Palmer is another case though. He was far too young to give up being only 27 when the music press was rounding on ELP in 1977. He had to change his style and stance to survive and did that very sucessfully with the band Asia. I respect the guy a lot but even you have to admit his drumming on things like Black Moon and later Asia albums is pretty dreadfully dull. Sadly Carl stopped being relevant as drummer decades ago although I love his lust for life and displaying his visual drumming art which he does with great enthusiasm. He's also a 'tea totaller' like youself. Something in that it would seem ( although I could never dream of giving up beer, not happening ever!!)

Floydoid wrote: ... As for ELP's later albums... well let me just say IMO they probably should have called it a day after Works 1.

Hi,

A tough area to call ... specially as they were a part of a system that was based on hits and making some money for the record company involved ... which means that any musician thinking they can get a free ride and only do what they feel like doing ... might as well retire now, and stop the illusion!

As a writer, I have never wavered from my inner feeling, and I suppose that I could say that I have bucked the "system" more than once, which might have given me a bit more materially, but in the end, it would hurt me inside ... I live for my inner vision, in dreams or otherwise, and write from them a lot ... and I can not leave that behind ... I don't change skins during different seasons, to be able to do that and leaving the comforts they won behind would likely be a serious issue for a discussion, that they needed to have, but might have been one of those moments when things went in agreement in the other way that we as fans have not enjoyed or appreciated ... but in the end, who the fudge am I to be telling a Picasso, or Stravinsky, what to do with their life? It's a ridiculous notion, and us trying to think for Emerson, Lake or Palmer, is a bit on the mean side. I can see Palmer laughing these days, and look at his past with some appreciation for the beautiful work he did that 9 out of 0 drummers would not and instead just play the simplest and highschool'est of bits in drumming, like you have these days ... no talent ... just timing, the first thing you learn in school!

^ on that basis most prog was getting boring by 1974. Many bands that had started about 1969/70 were struggling to progress or come up with new ideas. Prog was splitting into the jazz rock stuff which never had a wide audience. ELP were one of the most recognisable and well known prog bands of the time and still crop up in quiz shows even today (I know because I watch a lot with my Mum!). Fanfare For The Commmon Man made no2 in the UK in 1977 and gave them a brief new lease of life. That along with Keith Emerson's surprise hit Honky Tonk Train Blues and Lake's Xmas song showed the guys were capable of exploring new directions. Works was just a confusing time for the band but honestly most prog bands by 1978 were struggling because they didn't know what else to do. Once you've climbed the hill you can only come down.

Floydoid wrote: As for ELP's later albums... well let me just say IMO they probably should have called it a day after Works 1.

Maybe, and Works 1 could have been a decent single album if it were just the band efforts and the best Carl Palmer (best solo side imo) and Greg Lake songs.

But truth be told I never cared for popularity contests (best band, Top 10s...etc.). I just listen to music which has an impact on me.

I frigging despise such popularity rankings. By nature, a ranking of art-driven productions (music, comic books, films, movies and so on) based on a public-voted average numerical score is completely irrelevant when it comes to judging whether band A is better than band B.

However, with that being said, such lists do have their purpose. They can serve as a general guide introducing complete newcomers to getting the basics down on what progressive rock music sounds like, as well as helping them get hooked into the genre and later explore more releases on their own.

Works 2 was of course leftover tracks, and from that release I do like the titular song of BSS, and again with a bit of play list tinkering I insert that into the BSS album just before Karn Evil 9 - which works well.

As for ELP's later albums... well let me just say IMO they probably should have called it a day after Works 1.

Edited by Floydoid - April 18 2025 at 01:48

Just my opinion: ELP were great up to Works included. I love Piano Concerto, Pirates, and some of the short songs by Lake. The rest is good enough. Trilogy is one of my favorite albums ever and what conquered me to prog when I was 10 years old. What I have read here about the fillers is true, but when you record a track like Tarkus you can have some fun with Are You Ready Eddy. Still better than silence or than a short album below 30 minutes. Nowadays Tarkus could have been a single digital track, but I remember only one LP recorded on 1 side only: "Io se Fossi Dio" by Giorgio Gaber that contains a > 20 minutes song on side A and nothing on side B.

They are one of the least interesting of the most famous progressive rock artists out there...that´s the reason why. They predomiantly play cold and calculated technically accomplished progressive rock, but there´s little emotion or emotional impact in what they are doing. I´m sure that´s one of the reasons why people aren´t voting them into the top 100. There are simply many other great artists out there who have produced better output.

Rick1 wrote: ELP illustrate the life cycle of bands who all go through a creative peak for a few years but can never recapture it, no matter how hard they try. They certainly find it hard over the course of an album. I am a huge ELP fan and I am used to defending them but what ELP had was the ability to put on great live performances right up until their final concert in 2010, which I was lucky enough to be at. Forget this album and that album...

without the albums to fall back onto, then the live performances would have counted for nothing I think. Brain Salad Surgery was the peak because they played 99% of it live during the 73/74 world tour. After that the live performances relied too much on a mixture of the same classic material. It was actually Ian Anderson that said much later (maybe the 90's) that ''the trouble with ELP is that they only ever play the same 12 tracks''. Carl Palmer responded by saying ''true, but we change the order sometimes''.

verslibre wrote: richardh wrote: ELP never get any credit for being eclectic. Other bands can do 'silly songs' (ie Caravan with Golf Girl, Genesis with More Fool Me, Gentle Giant with Dog's Life) and seemingly get away with it. Oh well. You don't see me complaining about "Benny the Bouncer," do you? "Hoedown" is one of my favorite ELP compositions, too. Anyone who doesn't like it is off their axis.

Hi,

I think that it looks like some musicians take their music too seriously. It's understandable, since it is "your child", however, there is a time and place when one needs to stand up and fight back. The hard time in England, would be to have to fight something like MM, or the other one NME, and an issue or two would show up putting the musicians down ... with one issue here ... in the end, the magazine would look stupid, and they were not the artist pouring their heart out in their work ... and that, eventually, would hurt the journalistic side of the magazine ... and many other bands would pay attention.

The hard part is to think that they needed the magazine for various things, and their daily lives, which is crazy ... but at the time, MM and NME could make or break a band easily enough, though I really think that it was just a matter of time before someone told them where to stick their opinions.

Nowadays, things are very different, but it scares me that a band feels they have to post on PA, on AP or other sites, in order to be heard, and get a leg up on the competition ... stories are everywhere, that some folks just had to show up and their talent and musicianship would shine, though I think that today, a lot of this is ignored, and instead falling for the mentions ... the fallacy of the advertising world ... that not being heard or ignored is the worst thing in life ... to me, not believing your work enough is the problem, not being heard or ignored! But it is the difference between selling one, or a hundred. However, folks forget that the sale is "temporary" and tomorrow it will be gone ... and picking it up again, is not quite likely!

You can not, as an artist, think that you have to listen to everyone ... PERIOD. And that's the part that I think needs to come to fruition a bit more, because on that day, some new music will wake up right from under our feet!

Edited by moshkito - April 15 2025 at 06:53