What ever happened to E.L.P.?

Hrychu wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: I see that Carl is touring again this year as ELP. Interesting. I might go since I've never seen ELP before. ;) ELP? More like Carl and the Holograms. xd

No doubt but it's being billed as an evening with Emerson, Lake & Palmer or something like that.

It remains to be seen what criteria they use, not only the talent of the musicians and their albums, but also their longevity in the music scene, their ability to reinvent themselves, or whether their music is timeless or anchored in its time. I agree that ELP seems to be below Jethro Tull, Yes, Genesis, Van der Graaf Generator, or King Crimson, although it's a matter of taste. However, when they emerged, they were a success from their first album, attracting the attention of Jimi Hendrix himself and Miles Davis after their performance on the Isle of Wight. And their first five albums, from the self-titled album to Brain Salad Surgery, boast a superlative level of innovation. The classical adaptations to rock, which he had already patented with The Nice, were the hallmark of Keith Emerson, a pianist with a sensitivity for playing everything from jazz to classical to rock 'n' roll. Carl Palmer had already proven his worth with Atomic Rooster, but later, he grew even more capable of playing melodies on his drums. And Greg Lake, personally, for me, had one of the best and most versatile voices, along with Ian Anderson's, in the early years. While they seemed to lose their way after 1973, at a younger age than some of their fellow bandmates, with the aforementioned merits, I believe they deserve a place that honors their achievements.

richardh wrote: Hrychu wrote: The whole "prog got boring by 1974" is an anglo-commonwealth-centric myth that's repeated by people that dismiss the more underground 2nd wave prog bands, mostly from outside the 1st Western World. It comes down to what can genuinely be called 'prog'. We've been down that road on PA many times. I'm talking about what was genuinely regarded as 'progressive rock' back in the day (ie the 'first wave') not talking about purely innovative music which of course carried on and is still happening all over the world. IMHO

Hi,

Not sure that this sounds right, or might mean something else ... the "original" progressive music was innovative, and different, at least as far as the methodology and format designs of most pop music ... I still believe the idea was to get past the pop music formats, and in essence, that meant that anything new had to be innovative, since I'm not sure you can have 674 variations upon a theme on the same 12 notes in a couple of scales, and not add something else to it all.

In the end, let's face it ... most "progressive" and "progrock" and innovative materials that we list here, still are not exactly beyond what classical music has shown specially in the 20th century when a lot of music busted out the designs and the ideas of what music was ... thus, thinking that innovative and special new materials from all over the world, was what made it innovative, when it really wasn't, even if there was some inspiration taken from it. Almost ALL new music, over the centuries, was completely different than what the norm was and while it might not have taken to the ears all around, eventually it did so.

But I think that we are missing the point of all this ... the one thing that rock and jazz music brought to the plate in the 20th century was what I consider "attitude", which was ignored by classical music for hundreds of years, since it was not exactly easy to score something that had been improvised, and the player had no idea what he did here or there, and there didn't exist a recording device available which would help, and THERE WASN'T until nearly 100 years ago! That, on its own, dismantles the idea of "innovative" because we can not evaluate what it was what was played! And could not be scored!!!

Miles Davis, for example, was not exactly appreciated by the classical music folks, however, in due time, his forays into somewhere else, got some results, and at that point I think it went beyond jazz, in terms of a definition, something that we don't like to do ... we think that everything has to fit in a little box with the same 4 corners and so forth!

But the main issue, with something like Miles Davis, is ... where is it going to lead us all? And how are we going to take it ... and all of a sudden we think that John McLaughlin was crazy when he just flew away, but we love it when Steve Howe did it, or Chris Squire did it for 60 seconds incredibly well, and then, we have an issue ... our ideas of all this, are not comprehensive and strong, or our ideas would make a little bit better sense, specially with the history of the music in mind, which rock fans intentionally ignore because it trashes their likes left and right and every which way!

In the end, I think that we're trying hard to CLOSE DOWN the idea that new music can come along and create something new ... why? Easy! ... We have no terminology or ideas how to interpret it, but one thing is always true ... when yo look at it all within a historical context in music, most of it makes sense, except the "fan-dom" ... which will likely still fight for pieces of the pig! Music? So what? ...


Edited by moshkito - April 21 2025 at 09:02

Floydoid wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: I see that Carl is touring again this year as ELP. Interesting. I might go since I've never seen ELP before. ;) As ELP? Shouldn't that be as P?

Hi,

If I knew that he was using film to show what he did with the drums, and (basically) give us a drum clinic that most hitters do not have or will ever learn, other than timing ... then it will be worth seeing ... you can't see the others, this might be a bit weird, but hopefully interesting ... he was one of the few drummers that worked on helping the music come alive ... instead of the cheap and low level abilities in most bands these days!

Hopefully it will be nice and worth it, is all I can hope for ... I never got a chance to see ELP, and I might enjoy saying hello and at least say a fond thank yo ufor the inspiration that he and his mates gave me and others!

richardh wrote: Hrychu wrote: The whole "prog got boring by 1974" is an anglo-commonwealth-centric myth that's repeated by people that dismiss the more underground 2nd wave prog bands, mostly from outside the 1st Western World. It comes down to what can genuinely be called 'prog'. We've been down that road on PA many times. I'm talking about what was genuinely regarded as 'progressive rock' back in the day (ie the 'first wave') not talking about purely innovative music which of course carried on and is stil happeining all over the world. IMHO

Where is Rush, Marilion, Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater or same, Rick Miller in your judgement?

Humor used to be part of prog.   Not so much anymore.
Agree - what about KC with "Cat Food" and "Elephant Song"

ELPmasters wrote: richardh wrote: Hrychu wrote: The whole "prog got boring by 1974" is an anglo-commonwealth-centric myth that's repeated by people that dismiss the more underground 2nd wave prog bands, mostly from outside the 1st Western World. It comes down to what can genuinely be called 'prog'. We've been down that road on PA many times. I'm talking about what was genuinely regarded as 'progressive rock' back in the day (ie the 'first wave') not talking about purely innovative music which of course carried on and is stil happeining all over the world. IMHO Where is Rush, Marilion, Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater or same, Rick Miller in your judgement?

Not sure how this ties in but Rush and Porcupine Tree are amongst my top tier favourite bands with DT, Marillion maybe second tier bands for me. I like Rick Miller's latest album but I'm not that familiar with him generally.

I saw them at the Wiltern (one of my favorite venues, I also saw Tangerine Dream and Patrick O'Hearn there) on the Black Moon tour and Carl never donned headphones. A fantastic show, the whole place was jumping!

Youtube - Emerson Lake and Palmer at the Royal Albert Hall 1992/ @17.50 ("Black Moon") - Carl very definitely wearing headphones and at the start of the number, when Greg is talking in the long shot you can see him reaching down and putting them on.

Steve Wyzard wrote: verslibre wrote: I saw them at the Wiltern (one of my favorite venues, I also saw Tangerine Dream and Patrick O'Hearn there) on the Black Moon tour and Carl never donned headphones. A fantastic show, the whole place was jumping! When I first read this I was skeptical, because I lived in the area at the time and did not remember them playing at the Wiltern. But I looked it up and they did play there on March 16-17, 1993. They played at Universal Ampitheatre in August 1992, and I missed that show because I was out of town. I would have LOVED to have seen them at the Wiltern but never saw any ads/promotion for those shows. By the way, the venue is still there and rapidly approaching its 100th birthday!

You didn't listen to KLOS 95.5 FM? I went the first night. The second night was simulcast by KLOS. Soon after, I acquired a dub.