Prog tracks that you feel get too much hate...

The reason I buy any SW remix is because of the surround mixes, and all I've heard are excellent. Even an average budget surround setup will sound excellent. Also, both Alan Parsons and Steven Wilson have both mentioned that they prefer surround to stereo.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ SW mixes are getting a lot of hate

Hi,

It's not hate. It's simply that what he is doing is not as mind altering, or incredibly artistic development for the music itself. And it goes back at least 75 years when a famous conductor wanted to change the sitting of the orchestra players so different parts of the music would get a better expression in the recording. So, thinking that what SW is doing is far out and exceptional, makes me think that the history of "recording" is being ignored, and not many folks have EVER heard the RED SEAL albums in the late 1960's which were the very special super recordings of a lot of things.

TOMITA's "Snowflakes are Dancing" got the treatment, and you want that version, so you can hear what SW is doing ... and this album was done in 1975!!!!

I, personally, do not have an issue with the work that SW is doing, although I think that some of it is not helping the work much ... I still see/think that the Gentle Giant stuff is much better and superior on a really good sound system with a good/great turntable and stylus .... however, these days, no one has really heard anything that great to have any idea of what I am saying and know the difference.

But, in my book, SW is doing one thing that is valuable, and that is improving the recording on a lot of albums where it was fine at the time, but really not that great. I, for example, doubt that SW can touch an album done by Alan Parsons, for example, specially as he came through the classical folks in England that were doing some outstanding stuff in recording, way before EMI/Abbey Road opened up their doors to "long haired poor musicians" as many were labelled then. It was a part of the list of the worst business decisions ever done, BTW, listed for the 20th century ... specially The Beatles and Rolling Stones.

Edited by moshkito - 11 hours 51 minutes ago at 08:16

progaardvark wrote: ... Pink Floyd was still using a quadrophonic sound system during their 1994 tour. I saw them in Philadelphia and can vividly remember the sound moving around the stadium. And that's even from sitting on one side of Veterans Stadium in the upper deck (left side of the stage). I imagine it was more pronounced if you sat in the middle of the stadium on the field.

Hi,

There is no poor/bad seat in that system, which is how I remember it ... and it just makes the whole thing so special ... always loved it, and I laugh when I hear any of SW's mixes, kinda making it look like this instrument is here and that one over there, and then having the sound move around a bit ... it's a really poor version of what PF did live, in large places, at least. I always thought that the logic behind the remix/remaster was not thought out properly, and it tended to focus on cool, not the work itself! I don't even have the heart to listen to SW's remixes of KC. I never needed them as their music had the spaciousness for us to feel it.

Edited by moshkito - Yesterday at 15:43

moshkito wrote: and the version on the Sampler was not that good in my ears. It also sounded like it was doctored in parts ... a criminal offense!

I sort of know that, but I can't help but respond the way I do to it. Of course I'd love for them it if was something closer to that on the Wyzardo (which I haven't heard). I love that doctored in parts, wondrous little tune nevertheless.

Saperlipopette! wrote: ... The studio recording of Embryo ended up on a Harvest Sampler in 1970 (without the band's approval). I know the band never thought they nailed it properly, but I love it and think it would have been the perfect end to side 1. ...

Hi,

I think I had something like 8 or 9 bootlegs from the early days, and only one from DSOTM on (the Anaheim triple LP). The bootlegs for DSOTM, were not interesting and that's where you could see that the mechanical style needed to stay with the film and all the stage stuff, might have taken the flow of the band and its previous shows.

I think it was the version of EMBRYO that was on a Wyzardo (something like that) bootleg that was way better than most of them, and the version on the Sampler was not that good in my ears. It also sounded like it was doctored in parts ... a criminal offense!

It really made me wonder who the fudge made these decisions ... like ignoring the band's ability and how they worked things, and eventually using a version that did not have the nuances that so many of the bootlegs were showing ... I just about have to listen to them all again, though I think all of those bootlegs have long been gone from my collection ... (the LP's were getting too heavy for this old man without a house of his own, and having to move was a problem!)

I have to get rid of the books, and CD's too ... though at least I can rip them into MP3's and hope a can fit them all in many hard drives and save them ... since no one else has ever heard the majority of the bootlegs and really has no idea what I am saying, or likely thinking that I am just making stuff up!

PF did not make its name from the Syd Barrett days ... they made their name from the concerts with DG at the start, and then blew out the map with DSOTM. But it was the bootlegs that prefaced the fantastic concerts, of which I got to see one at the Hollywood Bowl (either August or September 1972) in their magic sound that was QUADRAPHONIC ... another idea that most people here have no idea and think some of the magic in digital positioning a la SW, was big ... the only bad thing about the QUAD system was that you couldn't take it home with you! The stuff these days, even in the fancy digital crap is still not as good ... for that matter, even the Grateful Dead sound system was the best I have ever saw and heard ... clean too! You never missed a single touch by anyone playing anything, and it was truly a big trip!

At the Hollywood Bowl, the opener was "One of These Days" and it going around your venue front, back and side, was pure magic. Still something to love and enjoy ... this was never repeated even after DSOTM ... of with RW who turned a 3D moment into a 2D crap'er in his shows! Roger might know and create a lot of stuff, but he has no feel for its presentation whatsoever!

Edited by moshkito - Yesterday at 08:34

Grumpyprogfan wrote: Every single Allan Holdsworth written tune. Not an appreciated solo artist at PA.

That is a shame. An esoteric masterclass of a career.

I agree that YES "Don't kill the whale" gets short shrift from the forums.

Also "Topographic Oceans" wrongfully gets ascribed bile.

Jeremy Bender - ELP
More Fool Me - Genesis

Emerson's Piano Concerto n°1, but we've already had this discussion...

Saperlipopette! wrote: So Meddle is my favorite Pink Floyd album. I'm not gonna fight for Seamus. I do find it enjoyable and fun enough (but I wouldn't mind if they had included the studio version of Embryo instead). -San Tropez however is just so effortlessly beautiful to me. I love it as much as anything. I feel like the average progger dismiss it by default. When it's not judged on its own terms you miss out on what it actually aims for - and succeed at. I know I'm exactly like that myself at times though. Maybe More Fool Me is an excellent track for what it is too, I wouldn't know, and I never want to hear it again. So while I think it's unfair each time I'm the one with the unpopular opinion, I fully understand why and how this happens.

I agree about 'San Tropez' - the light cocktail hour jazzy feel nicely fits in with the overall romantic feel of the album (though not as a stand alone track). Embryo would have been an interesting inclusion, tho the band claimed it was never properly finished (hence the hasty withdrawal of the Harvest label double sampler 'Picnic'). The other nice inclusion, again with a romantic feel, could have been 'Biding My Time' had it not been shoved out on 'Relics' earlier in the year. Yes, 'Seamus' is the definitive throwaway track.

Meddle is my favourite album of all time by the way, as it was my entry point into the Floyd (and the start of a lifelong obsession with all things Floydian). Not only that, on a wider scale, 'Meddle', and the live album of Ummagumma proved to be my gateway into prog generally... all back in 1971/2!