Are proghead nerds?

Saperlipopette! wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Yessss, it seemed the public was really "out there", ready to experiment and follow the counter-culture, which seemed quite un-commercial, but sold massively, precisely because the mainstream public was following suit. Fine I wasn't there, but I don't feel like seeing this from a cynical angle. Artists had bigger artistic freedom, musicians I admire could actually make a living just from making music (some, not all of course) and people were more openminded. Sure sounds good to me. I wish reality was closer to something like that for todays musicians. Don't we all?

Absofùckinglutely

David_D wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Surely there must be a certain trace of nerdism stuck in between those layers of muscle I have the impression that the world of today is quite full of nerds, of one or another kind and maybe not least food nerds.

Yess, we're in a modern world where old insults are being branded as "raison d'être"

Queer & nerd were fighting words back then (dorks & geeks as well). Nowadays they're the base of new religions.

BTW, I remember a time when queer did not necessarily mean "homo", but odd or peculiar (anchorman Less Nessman in WKRP in Cincinnati)

Atavachron wrote: ^ At the time it seemed like it would last forever.   Who'd've thought people would abandon rock and go back to dance & pop music.

Well if you were thinking that in 69, it was hardly foreseeable that disco, punk and electro-pop successively would rule by 75 to 79 to 81.

Atavachron wrote: ^ No it's about what new generations like and listen to.   Nothing more, nothing less.   If you're listening to Diddy, that's on you.

not really. when AOR became AOR (album-oriented rock & radio Vs adult-oriented rock & radio) around 75/6, it was the business taking back control of the medium.

Artistes were spending more & more money on increasingly average projects, with vastly diminishing financial returns. So the managers favored cheap projects (like the DIY punk stuff) to maximize profits and used payolas on radios to force-feed (or brainwash, if you prefer) the crowds.
Much easier for radios to make profit by sticking commercial ads between two 3-minutes single, rather than no commercial between album sides. Early 70's radios were a dead business model right from the start.
The fact that these uncommercial radios pioneered the superior-sounding FM band (and also much cheaper to broadcast over the airwaves) gave them freedom and room to exist, but soon enough the commercial AM-type of radios invaded that new hertzian continent.




Edited by Sean Trane - Yesterday at 03:32

Atavachron wrote: ^ At the time it seemed like it would last forever.   Who'd've thought people would abandon rock and go back to dance & pop music.

It’s about control and what’s forced on the average listener

Saperlipopette! wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Yessss, it seemed the public was really "out there", ready to experiment and follow the counter-culture, which seemed quite un-commercial, but sold massively, precisely because the mainstream public was following suit. Fine I wasn't there, but I don't feel like seeing this from a cynical angle. Artists had bigger artistic freedom, musicians I admire could actually make a living just from making music (some, not all of course) and people were more openminded. Sure sounds good to me. I wish reality was closer to something like that for todays musicians. Don't we all?

I could hope so.

Edited by David_D - June 03 2025 at 16:45

Sean Trane wrote: Yessss, it seemed the public was really "out there", ready to experiment and follow the counter-culture, which seemed quite un-commercial, but sold massively, precisely because the mainstream public was following suit.

Fine I wasn't there, but I don't feel like seeing this from a cynical angle. Artists had bigger artistic freedom, musicians I admire could actually make a living just from making music (some, not all of course) and people were more openminded. Sure sounds good to me. I wish reality was closer to something like that for todays musicians. Don't we all?

Saperlipopette! wrote: ^ I too can't help but think of the 1970's as a cultural golden era (I'll include th 1960's as well. People actually listen to-and bought quite challenging Jazz records - and watched works of art in cinema). There was actual artistic freedom even within the mainstream - at least to an extent. -and one can't blame the 1970's for country music. I don't really mind tobacco, disco (in fact I find it too easily dismissed and UNDRERRATED) or queerism either (or maybe I'm misunderstanding what queerism means).

I am a cultural historian and the way Id characterize the 70's was that moment when the USA's hegemony was acting out in full flower, culturally and corporately (economically). It was in many ways a crest and coast that lasted till the real squeeze on the middle class began to be felt in the 90's.   The 50s and 60's with the end of WWII and all the GI bill expansion of education and worldiness from GI's returning + space race etc was this sense of climbing a hill (those challenging Jazz records, abstract expressionism etc... thenm the kitsch came in the 70's)... 70's were a kind of crest and picnic spot. Not really a peak moment or golden age but as sense of enjoying the view. In many ways the 70's were nostalgia for its current moment.   Sadly that moment was very pornstache and polyester. I enjoyed the prog though. Pretty nerdy but not in an uncool unselfconscious way.    I was a kid and films like The secret lives of altar boys feels more nostalgic to what I experienced... you know Schwinns in suburbs with banana seats etc.

Edited by Themistocles - June 03 2025 at 11:51

Saperlipopette! wrote: ^ I too can't help but think of the 1970's as a cultural golden era (I'll include th 1960's as well. People actually listen to-and bought quite challenging Jazz records - and watched works of art in cinema). There was actual artistic freedom even within the mainstream - at least to an extent. -and one can't blame the 1970's for country music. I don't really mind tobacco, disco (in fact I find it too easily dismissed and UNDRERRATED) or queerism either (or maybe I'm misunderstanding what queerism means).

Disco, AOR and yacht rock are dope. Also, New Hollywood was amazing and many great underrated directors such as Altman, Cassavetes or Lumet emerged from it.

Sean Trane wrote: omphaloskepsis wrote: All four men are alpha males. All four are married and still listen to prog. Surely there must be a certain trace of nerdism stuck in between those layers of muscle Gnik Nosmirc wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Absofùckinglutely. I'd never heard in North Am (Central Canada) of progressive rock in the 70's , even if the qualificative was sometimes used) and even less of "prog" (or "PROG"). And yes, we had teachers that enjoyed Crimson, Floyd & ELP. Certainly, back then, today's "PROG" pioneer-bands and their fans were not ostracized, especially if they enjoyed other type of rock. Trouble arose when punk started happening in 77, but by that time, it was the birth of all these chapels: the different camp were mostly hard rock (and heavy metal), Funk/Soul, Country/soft Rock (Yacht rock didn't exist back then), disco, AOR (the latter two were where most of the girls to be found) Upon return to western Europe in 91, when asked about my musical tastes in the Belgian-state owned TV/Radio where I found my first job (and where I made most of my friends & buddies, still today), most everyone understood "hard rock", when I spoke of "art rock", so when specifying the groups, some spoke of "progressive rock", but the term "PROG" wasn't coined yet. This IMHO came about in the mid-90's, when progheads/nerds/jerks/dorks started appearing and the scene was growing from non-existant to a secular & secretive gigs out in the boondocks. In some ways those nerds/dorks were very helpfull in creating that second (or third) golden age ( or wave), because it's mostly their devotion and labor that helped it grow. I love pretty much everything from the 70's (even punk) so I would have fit everywhere. Great times. let's not overdo things with rampant nostalgia either The 70's were troubles times (Nam, Cambodia, birth of modern terrorism, Petrol Crisis, etc...) and some awful habits abounded: that rampant heterosexuality , heavy use of tobacco everywhere , birth of disco (and queerism) , country music even   Le Séparatisme de La Belle Province killed partly the spirits and ruined an economy. So yeah, I enjoyed the 70's tremendously, but it wasn't a golden era. .

I meant musically, not politically.

Sean Trane wrote: Jacob Schoolcraft wrote: I started listening to Art Rock in 1970 and continued as such for years until people began referring to it as Progressive Rock. In the early 70s as a teenager...people were generally aware of ELP, Genesis and Yes. It was widely accepted...however as the years progressed ...the generation of teenagers began taking to mainstream Rock ...which wasn't necessarily commercially viable Rock.. Albums like Robin Trower Bridge Of Sighs and different bands playing a hard edge sounding Boogie started to attract a large audience of hard- core teenage rockers. Right around this time I crossed paths with people who disliked Progressive Rock and I was treated like a misfit or outcast...not necessarily a nerd though. Or perhaps in some people's vision the same. Several music teachers in high school admired ELP , Yes and Genesis Absofùckinglutely. I'd never heard in North Am (Central Canada) of progressive rock in the 70's , even if the qualificative was sometimes used) and even less of "prog" (or "PROG"). And yes, we had teachers that enjoyed Crimson, Floyd & ELP. Certainly, back then, today's "PROG" pioneer-bands and their fans were not ostracized, especially if they enjoyed other type of rock. Trouble arose when punk started happening in 77, but by that time, it was the birth of all these chapels: the different camp were mostly hard rock (and heavy metal), Funk/Soul, Country/soft Rock (Yacht rock didn't exist back then), disco, AOR (the latter two were where most of the girls to be found) Upon return to western Europe in 91, when asked about my musical tastes in the Belgian-state owned TV/Radio where I found my first job (and where I made most of my friends & buddies, still today), most everyone understood "hard rock", when I spoke of "art rock", so when specifying the groups, some spoke of "progressive rock", but the term "PROG" wasn't coined yet. This IMHO came about in the mid-90's, when progheads/nerds/jerks/dorks started appearing and the scene was growing from non-existant to a secular & secretive gigs out in the boondocks. In some ways those nerds/dorks were very helpfull in creating that second (or third) golden age ( or wave), because it's mostly their devotion and labor that helped it grow.

I love pretty much everything from the 70's (even punk) so I would have fit everywhere. Great times.

Back in the day, my brother and his friends were huge prog fans.
My brother was our high school's starting running back. He ran track and wrestled. He served four years in the marines and he became a professional firefighter.

His friend Steve was the starting quarterback. He was in the Air Force and a professional firefighter.

Wendel ran track and was the starting middle linebacker. He served in the Marines and he's a gynecologist.

Greg pitched for the baseball team and played point guard on the basketball team. He played college baseball. He owns a major car dealership.

This foursome loved Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Bowie, Queen, Rush, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, Styx, and Kansas. They saw all these bands live. All four men are alpha males. All four are married and still listen to prog.

However, they didn't listen to Gentile Giant, VDGG, or Genesis.


Edited by omphaloskepsis - June 02 2025 at 04:39

I started listening to Art Rock in 1970 and continued as such for years until people began referring to it as Progressive Rock.
In the early 70s as a teenager...people were generally aware of ELP, Genesis and Yes. It was widely accepted...however as the years progressed ...the generation of teenagers began taking to mainstream Rock ...which wasn't necessarily commercially viable Rock.. Albums like Robin Trower Bridge Of Sighs and different bands playing a hard edge sounding Boogie started to attract a large audience of hard- core teenage rockers. Right around this time I crossed paths with people who disliked Progressive Rock and I was treated like a misfit or outcast...not necessarily a nerd though. Or perhaps in some people's vision the same.

Several music teachers in high school admired ELP , Yes and Genesis though musicians in orchestras often criticized it and found it laughable or disgraceful to Classical Music. It was a mixed bag reaction ..particularly with snobs.. however they were outnumbered when teenagers who had been classically trained on piano began buying Mellotron and Synthesizer to form cover bands and play Battle Of The Bands or High School Dance. Either way...what Emerson once stated about smiling in a band photo or album cover. It didn't work....and the audience were just as serious as the musicians. No one was particularly interested in smiling ...or selling out...If someone in high school heard about your band having a Mellotron or Synthesizer they'd show up just to see it. That's ancient fossil and as time progressed people generally expected bands to use either one in a Pop song..for example...but in the early 70s it was a new interest. Even though The Moody Blues had used a Mellotron in the late 60's people still treated it as something new. Something exciting for people to enjoy. In 71' people were still retracing King Crimson's steps and Mellotron was very much a new idea to them. Even though The Rolling Stones used it in "2000 Light Years From Home" in 67' ...the Progressive Rock composition of YES featured it on Fragile and people went crazy and gave new birth to it. It wasn't until the late 70s I noticed rockers trying to outcast progress. Especially if you had an interest in Gong, Hatfield and the North, Camel or Pulsar. You were toxic

Edited by Jacob Schoolcraft - June 01 2025 at 17:02