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Hammill or Krause |
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ThyroidGlands ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 29 2023 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 443 |
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Today I was listening to Art Bears and thought of Krause as a sort of female version of Hammill. I love them both. Not sure what you all think.
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You don't know nothin'
You don't know nothin' about You don't know nothin' You don't know nothin' at all |
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Mellotron Storm ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Online Points: 14605 |
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I prefer Hammill to Krause. I'm still marvelling at how great Peter's voice was on those live BBC sessions. The guy can sing.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Saperlipopette! ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 13019 |
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Hammill's voice I can listen to for hours. While I can never finish an Art Bears album anymore because of Krause's particular singing style. I have nothing but respect her approach and artistic integrity, but it's presence gets in the way of the music for me.
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18647 |
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Hi, I think the difference, for me, is that PH's handling of the lyrics is all personal and he knows instinctively how to interpret them, which is very theatrical at times and different than the average rock singer around. Dagmar's singing, and interpretation of things, is more of an idea than a reality in my book. I don't find it "personal" and thus strong, like PH's, but maybe the issue with Dagmar is the music supporting her, which I'm not sure is helping her much, although in their style, it is not about a melodic content that is the usual in singing, but a complete juxtaposition to what would otherwise be written and performed. It is, a very academic thing, and is thought to be better musically because of it, whereas PH and VdGG are not even in the discussion when it comes to the academic thing, despite it very original composition of members and even after so many years and so much material still sounding fresh and good. This makes the Art Bears, and Dagmar a touch listen for many of us that are not used to material that is not as clean cut as a single is, for example. Thus, listening to it, at first, is often a difficult experience. |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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someone_else ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: May 02 2008 Location: Going Bananas Status: Offline Points: 24845 |
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Both are great in their own ways and both are acquired tastes.
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Saperlipopette! ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 13019 |
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I think all of what you wrote made a whole lot of sense, but ending with this "tone" slightly taints an otherwise insightful post.
-and you taint your posts with a somewhat condencating tone all the time. This was really nothing, and I don't think you consider me to be someone who's not used to material that aren't as clean cut as a single*. But I thought I'd let you know as I suspect it's not really intentional. *my main issue or difficulties with Dagmar's delivery is touched upon in what you write. Whenever Peter Hammill "goes theatrical", it never comes across as forced or inauthentic - because it always feel like he is following his musical instincts. Not unlike how an experienced jazz musician does, whether expressed through a saxophone, a trumpet or a flute... It's honest in the sense that it doesn't come from a school on how to communicate this or that spesific emotion - which is closer to acting. Probably because most rhythmic music is first and foremost the sound of interplay to me, and the human voice mainly an instrument among the others - I soon lose interest in most "stage music" and the likes. With the odd exception, I might prefer Kobaļan over any language that I actually understand. Listening to Dagmar Krause primarely as an instrument making sounds, doesn't gel all that well with the rest of what is happening musically. To me. While Hammill is the perfect voice and instrument for VdGG (and solo) - and vice versa. Like Wyatt on Rock Bottom or Soft Machine - Volume Two. |
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 46772 |
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Peter Hammill
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Nogbad_The_Bad ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 21624 |
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Going for Both, too different to pick one over the other and love both.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Syzygy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 7142 |
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I love both, but it has to be Dagmar for me. I have seen both of them live, Hammill with VDGG and Dagmar performing Brecht songs, with Slapp Happy and as part of the Robert Wyatt tribute Comicoperando. Hammill is remarkable, but Dagmar is in a class of her own.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
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Rick1 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 14 2020 Location: Loughborough UK Status: Offline Points: 3133 |
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Dagmar is fantastic and I have been lucky enough to see her twice over the years. Her voice is more genuine and versatile although the comparison with Hammill is not straightforward. As a 14 year old, when I heard her screaming on Oslo (Henry Cow Concerts) I nearly shat myself. No other singer has done that!
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18647 |
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Hi, The idea, probably not written clearly, is that (in general) the pop song is based on melody and it flows well, which makes it easier to listen to. The Art Bears, and Dagmar material is not exactly based on melody, the money side of the pop business. I have several of their albums, and go much further back to the days of Bertold Brecht and Kurt Weill and the style of music that was originally thought to be for theater only. And, we were at the forefront of showing these albums on the air in Santa Barbara, when everything that was out from then was available as an IMPORT starting with Hopes and Fears which would have been 1978. And I do not recall anyone complaining about it, from the SPR shows that I have recorded (330 hours from 1974 to 1981 survived, out of about 500+hours). (Guy owns a copy of those shows now!) I have a lot of music that is not "conventional" (for lack of a better word!), and always find that these efforts tend to help a lot of new music, which is always exciting for me. Note: Guy Guden was an outstanding actor and got a lot of accolades at SBCC, including the production of 3 plays that he wrote and were also shown at the old theater ... sold out I might add! He ended up using his acting talent on radio doing comedy sketches and various stories. His voice and characterizations were huge, and some of them were even used for several commercials at the station. His best known perhaps was the Hindu mystic ... doing a commercial that ran for a long time ... lightness is an excellent alternative to darkness ... with an instrument from ____ .He was quite good at a lot of different styles, and the Brecht/Weill work did not go by him un-noticed, up to including The Doors doing one song ... but then, some of them were film students, and very well read from UCLA ... you did not get into that school by being a rock'n'roll person or someone with no grades. You still don't these days I assume. Edited by moshkito - Yesterday at 09:32 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 38767 |
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I like the vocals of both, but Peter Hammill for sure is more important to me; not just as a vocalist, but as a singer-songwriter and musician.
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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Saperlipopette! ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 13019 |
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progaardvark ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 53661 |
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Like both, but Krause a bit more.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18647 |
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Hi, This is so off key and strange. I'm the one that always tells stories and wants to play with the kids, and have some fun, and in fact one time I lost a relationship because the kids cleaned up their room when I asked (in 5 minutes!!!) but wouldn't do it for their mom! The attitude is not even making an assumption that no one knows anything ... it is basically what I see, and how I see it ... and that someone takes that and (seemingly!) distorts it, is scary for me. And disappointing. The polite thing would be to ask how/why, not accuse, I suppose, but I'm not one of those ____pistas ... going around pointing fingers at people because their skin is different, or their hair is blue, or their surfboard is pink! We're talking music, or an art form, and it is very normal that some folks see things a bit different, and my views were shaped in the 70's with my roommate being a well known DJ on the number 1 station, and doing a special show with imports (none of the hits none of the time!) ... and to be fair and honest, we did not even get any comments about treating folks like that. We played the music and let it speak for us! The rest didn't matter whatsoever ... but here ... it's sad that one thinks that ... I'm too old to be that bitter and disappointed with life ... I've loved a lot of the music that has kept me alive more often than not! And if someone can not understand my enthusiasm, there is nothing I can really say or do that will help ... but it's just sad seeing that, in a place where we work on making sure that we help the music ... and instead the focus is completely away from the music or the art. Same thing with me, discussing "krautrock" ... where some folks are upset that the same type of situations are also present in film, theater and literature ... and I did not invent that ... but somehow, folks here think that rock music is far and away the most important art of it all, to dismiss the rest of the arts, is ridiculous, specially when the folks that were doing were all the same friends and mates at school! We have to get better at this progressive thing, or it will be dead and gone, because some folks did not care enough ... and I'm not EVER criticising your tastes, and trust your comments, like you don't mine, I think! |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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verslibre ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 19386 |
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Hammill
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Saperlipopette! ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 13019 |
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It's not. By underestemating everyone else, you overestimate yourself. But you don't see it yourself - or notice. I was trying to help, because I don't think you do this intentionally. But don't you worry, I won't try again. |
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