Hammill or Krause

Today I was listening to Art Bears and thought of Krause as a sort of female version of Hammill. I love them both. Not sure what you all think.

Hammill's voice I can listen to for hours. While I can never finish an Art Bears album anymore because of Krause's particular singing style. I have nothing but respect her approach and artistic integrity, but it's presence gets in the way of the music for me.    

Both are great in their own ways and both are acquired tastes.

Peter Hammill

I love both, but it has to be Dagmar for me. I have seen both of them live, Hammill with VDGG and Dagmar performing Brecht songs, with Slapp Happy and as part of the Robert Wyatt tribute Comicoperando. Hammill is remarkable, but Dagmar is in a class of her own.

Saperlipopette! wrote: I think all of what you wrote made a whole lot of sense, but ending with this "tone" slightly taints an otherwise insightful post. ... and you taint your posts with a somewhat condencating tone all the time. ...

Hi,

The idea, probably not written clearly, is that (in general) the pop song is based on melody and it flows well, which makes it easier to listen to. The Art Bears, and Dagmar material is not exactly based on melody, the money side of the pop business.

I have several of their albums, and go much further back to the days of Bertold Brecht and Kurt Weill and the style of music that was originally thought to be for theater only. And, we were at the forefront of showing these albums on the air in Santa Barbara, when everything that was out from then was available as an IMPORT starting with Hopes and Fears which would have been 1978. And I do not recall anyone complaining about it, from the SPR shows that I have recorded (330 hours from 1974 to 1981 survived, out of about 500+hours). (Guy owns a copy of those shows now!)

I have a lot of music that is not "conventional" (for lack of a better word!), and always find that these efforts tend to help a lot of new music, which is always exciting for me.

Note: Guy Guden was an outstanding actor and got a lot of accolades at SBCC, including the production of 3 plays that he wrote and were also shown at the old theater ... sold out I might add! He ended up using his acting talent on radio doing comedy sketches and various stories. His voice and characterizations were huge, and some of them were even used for several commercials at the station. His best known perhaps was the Hindu mystic ... doing a commercial that ran for a long time ... lightness is an excellent alternative to darkness ... with an instrument from ____ .He was quite good at a lot of different styles, and the Brecht/Weill work did not go by him un-noticed, up to including The Doors doing one song ... but then, some of them were film students, and very well read from UCLA ... you did not get into that school by being a rock'n'roll person or someone with no grades. You still don't these days I assume.

Edited by moshkito - June 08 2025 at 09:32

moshkito wrote: The idea, probably not written clearly, is that (in general) the pop song is based on melody and it flows well, which makes it easier to listen to. The Art Bears, and Dagmar material is not exactly based on melody, the money side of the pop business.

I understood you perfectly. What could there be to possibly misunderstand? But I listen to plenty of music that make Art Bears sound conventional in comparison. Most of those you interact with here are quite experienced listeners with thousands of records covering just about every thinkable approach to music. Much like yourself, I suppose. That's why you don't have to talk to us like we're teenagers - or babies (and one can be nice to teenagers and babies as well).

Saperlipopette! wrote: ... Most of those you interact with here are quite experienced listeners with thousands of records covering just about every thinkable approach to music. Much like yourself, I suppose. That's why you don't have to talk to us like we're teenagers - or babies (and one can be nice to teenagers and babies as well).

Hi,

This is so off key and strange. I'm the one that always tells stories and wants to play with the kids, and have some fun, and in fact one time I lost a relationship because the kids cleaned up their room when I asked (in 5 minutes!!!) but wouldn't do it for their mom!

The attitude is not even making an assumption that no one knows anything ... it is basically what I see, and how I see it ... and that someone takes that and (seemingly!) distorts it, is scary for me. And disappointing.

The polite thing would be to ask how/why, not accuse, I suppose, but I'm not one of those ____pistas ... going around pointing fingers at people because their skin is different, or their hair is blue, or their surfboard is pink!

We're talking music, or an art form, and it is very normal that some folks see things a bit different, and my views were shaped in the 70's with my roommate being a well known DJ on the number 1 station, and doing a special show with imports (none of the hits none of the time!) ... and to be fair and honest, we did not even get any comments about treating folks like that. We played the music and let it speak for us! The rest didn't matter whatsoever ... but here ... it's sad that one thinks that ... I'm too old to be that bitter and disappointed with life ... I've loved a lot of the music that has kept me alive more often than not! And if someone can not understand my enthusiasm, there is nothing I can really say or do that will help ... but it's just sad seeing that, in a place where we work on making sure that we help the music ... and instead the focus is completely away from the music or the art.

Same thing with me, discussing "krautrock" ... where some folks are upset that the same type of situations are also present in film, theater and literature ... and I did not invent that ... but somehow, folks here think that rock music is far and away the most important art of it all, to dismiss the rest of the arts, is ridiculous, specially when the folks that were doing were all the same friends and mates at school!

We have to get better at this progressive thing, or it will be dead and gone, because some folks did not care enough ... and I'm not EVER criticising your tastes, and trust your comments, like you don't mine, I think!

moshkito wrote: Saperlipopette! wrote: ... Most of those you interact with here are quite experienced listeners with thousands of records covering just about every thinkable approach to music. Much like yourself, I suppose. That's why you don't have to talk to us like we're teenagers - or babies (and one can be nice to teenagers and babies as well). This is so off key and strange.

It's not. By underestemating everyone else, you overestimate yourself. But you don't see it yourself - or notice. I was trying to help, because I don't think you do this intentionally. But don't you worry, I won't try again.