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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2010 at 04:57
About to do something odd here- that is, to review an album that was never actually released in this form. I've created my own version for review. Read on to the review itself for an explanation :)
 
 
The Alchemy Index
by Thrice
16 tracks, 63 mins
 
PROG INTEREST ALERT
 
In 2007 and 2008, alternative rock band Thrice released a series of four EPs, each one containing four songs that, lyrically and sonically, explored each of the four elements. There were flashes of brilliance but attempting to combine all four into one mega-album, I found the weaker songs continually irritating and that the 94 minute length was just too much. More than half the time Thrice were hitting it out of the box, but the times they weren't were enough to drag it down.
So I kicked out the two weakest songs for each element and made my own The Alchemy Index album, with sixteen of the original twenty-four tracks. I think it works really well and is a great listen and really feels like a complete album. If you're already into Thrice, let me know what you think of my playlist, or even get a few tracks off Itunes and see how you feel.
 
Tracklist
 
Fire
1 Firebreather
2 Backdraft
3 Burn The Fleet
4 The Flame Deluge
 
Water
5 Digital Sea
6 Open Water
7 Lost Continent
8 The Whaler
 
Air
9 Broken Lungs
10 The Sky Is Falling
11 Daedalus
12 Silver Wings
 
Earth
13 The Earth Isn't Humming
14 The Lion And The Wolf
15 Come All You Weary
16 Child Of Dust
 
(Note: Each of the final songs in each element is a sonnet set to music from the element's own perspective. The same tune is used for each, but the production/delivery is entirely different. The exception is water- water's sonnet, Kings Upon The Main, plods on and on and I had to cut it for the stronger water songs.)
 
And now, finally, the review!
 
Fire
As you might expect, the fire songs are the most volatile and rocking of the bunch, closest to Thrice's hardcore roots before they began to head in more progressive directions.
Firebreather begins with fire sirens before chunky guitars kick in and Dustin Kensrue's smouldering vocals fill out the sound. The lyric is a little hard to catch, but I believe it is about cremation, a great but unexpected angle to take in a song about fire. Firebreather is perhaps a bit musically simple but it is good fistpumping stuff and the bit where the choiral vocals kick in near the end is fantastic.
Backdraft, one of the more sinister songs Thrice have released, is a literal reference to the movie/phenomenon of Backdraft, where a seemingly out fire is reignited when you open a door and the oxygen comes in. Cleverly, the song makes this a metaphor for a dysfunctional relationship that keeps dying and flaring up destructively. Musically, the quiet, creepy verses (which demonstrate how much Kensrue sounds like Thom Yorke when he sings quietly, despite his loud voice sounding nothing like Yorke at all) explode terrifically into a chorus that feels a bit emotionally unhinged. Much like backdraft itself where the danger seems to have passed and then BOOM!
Burn The Fleet is next, the lyric a speech from a commander telling his soldiers to destroy the ships that took them to the foreign land they intend to conquer- retreat will be impossible so they will fight that much harder. This has happened several times, but apparently Kensrue was thinking specifically of Tariq Ibn Zayid. One of my favourite lyrics on a pretty lyrically impressive album and it is cheesy in just the right way to give it that epic, heroic flavour.
The fire section closes with the first sonnet, The Flame Deluge. WOW. The incredible RAGE and FURY the band unleashes here. It's almost unlistenable in its intensity and I'm sure that's quite intentional, though it does destroy the lyric, though it's fire talking about how ashamed it is of the way humans keep using it for destruction. This is about the closest I can imagine to what it would sound like if a volcano made a rock album.
 
Water
Ghosts of Radiohead again, as Digital Sea begins like it's going to turn into Everything In Its Right Place. However it turns out to be a lot more straightforward than that, a nice, cool piece of chilled electronic pop, which sets the tone for the sound of the water section. Digital Sea uses drowning as a metaphor for how we find ourselves being surrounded in technology which takes our lives over. "I am tangled in nets" etc.
Open Water mines similar territory sonically, though perhaps the tone is a bit more menacing. However, this time we get a big pop payoff in a lush, rich and catchy chorus that rises up like a wave. Lyrically, I think Kensrue is comparing the ocean, mysterious, cruel but the source of life, to god, bringing new meaning to "between the devil and the deep blue sea".
Next is Lost Continent, one of my favourites, corny though the sound and concept may seem to some. A very timely lyric, an obvious Atlantis reference, works as a comment on today's world. Like the Atlanteans, we are blind to the warnings as the water rises, soon to obliterate us all, until today's civilisation is just a legendary myth of a super-society that the descendants of the survivors doubt ever existed at all. I'm not saying I or Kensrue actually believe that will happen, but it's a very rich thought for poetry.
The last water song included is The Whaler, oceans as a metaphor for the divisons between people, the whaler out at sea and seperated from his family for years. An old timey feel is blended with a modern drumbeat for an interesting sound and the vocal parts are quite haunting.
 
Air
The air section is different from all the others in that it doesn't have a set sound. Whereas fire rocked, water was electronic/sleepy and earth will be rootsy and folksy, air (whether a creative accident or to deliberately suggest its capricious nature) is varied. Proceedings begin with Broken Lungs, Thrice's 9/11 song. Some will take exception to the lyric which indicates an American government conspiracy, but then Matt Bellamy's overt statement of the same belief doesn't seem to have hurt Muse's career much. The music for Broken Lungs goes from a quiet, pretty verse to an amped up chorus before a raging conclusion. "We want justice, we want the truth!"
The Sky Is Falling is a more conventional rocker, one of the pacier songs on offer, but the tense production and airy chorus keep it away from the mainstream. Lyrically, I think it's about the Israel/Palestine conflict- Kensrue doesn't take sides, but speaks about how the constant fear that death may fall on you from above eats away at your life.
Daedalus is of course about the legendary inventor and architect and is a retelling of the Icarus myth from his perspective. It is also a highlight of the entire album. Kensrue nails the lyric while guitarist Teppei Teranishi gets it just right, using his instrument to evoke the isolation Daedalus feels at the start, their ascent into the air and Icarus' fatal fall. The part where Daedalus cries "Oh gods why is this happening to me?" often brings a lump to my throat.
Silver Wings feels musically similar to some of the water music with its electronic vibe, but the breezy, whispery production really suits the element, and it is one of the prettier things on offer. Lyrically air wonders that it keeps everyone alive but is so abused by mankind's pollution in return.
 
Earth
To get a more earthy feel, the final segment finds Thrice putting the amplifiers and digital manipulators around, resulting in a more folksy sound. The Earth Isn't Humming is not actually an original, but a cover of a Frodus song. I must confess I have not heard the original and could not find it but I understand Frodus were a punk band so I imagine this is quite different. The bass is very insistent and gives the feel of things inevitably ticking along towards doom- tying into the lyric's concern that the earth is out of balance and the piper will have to payed.
The Lion And The Wolf I don't really get lyrically but I do like the creepy atmosphere the song creates. Nothing else on The Alchemy Index sounds quite like this. Whatever it's about, it's not particularly happy. I think perhaps it is about earthly concerns and animal instincts getting the better of us and leading to personal destruction.
Come All You Weary may appear depressing- it is a message to all the unwanted and downtrodden that when they die, the earth will receive them- but it is done in a very rootsy, raw way so that rather than being gloomy, it is oddly uplifting, a reminder that no matter how bad things are, when you've done all you can, eternal rest awaits you.
The closer, the final sonnet, Child Of Dust, is devestating as the earth, seeming to represent god, speaks of how it gave Eden but it was not enough for man's greedy grasp, who has proceeded to wreck everything around him. "And though I only ever give you love, like every child you've chosen to rebel..." But in the end, in death, man will return to Earth and perhaps his soul to god. At the song's conclusion, the sound goes funny because the microphone was actually placed in a coffin, sealed up and buried while it continued to record.
That was a cool idea, but I wish they'd done the same for all four sections, having a mic consumed in fire while recording remotely, sunk into the ocean in a bubble and perhaps let free into the air on a helium balloon to end each of the other sections.
 
Anyway, what we end up with is a very diverse and lyrically strong set of music that stimulates the brain, provides a bit of rock and pop and really pulls you in which is about the complete package. Yes, I did condense 4 EPs and prune eight songs (some are not so bad, such as the post-rock instrumental Night Diving- only water had an instrumental, perhaps they should've done one for each element- but some are definitely not worthwhile such as the interminably boring A Song For Milly Michaelson) so this is not what Thrice intended to present to its audience, but you know what they say about most double albums making one good album. While this makes one excellent album and I hope you check out the tunes that intrigue you.
Please let me know if anyone gives my imaginary album tracklist a go in its entirety ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2010 at 00:47
NAZARETH-The Fool Circle


-released 1981

Tracks:
1. Dressed To Kill  
2. Another Year  
3. Moonlight Eyes  
4. Pop The Silo  
5. Let Me Be Your Leader  
6. We Are The People  
7. Every Young Man’s Dream  
8. Little Part Of You  
9. Cocaine  
10.Victoria
 bonus cd tracks: 
11.Every Young Man's Dream 
12.Big Boy    
13.Juicy Lucy  
14.Morning Dew


Band Members:
Dan McCafferty - vocals
Manny Charlton - guitars
Pete Agnew - bass guitar, vocals
Darrell Sweet - drums

Additional Musicians:
Jeff Baxter – synthesizer, vocoder
Zal Cleminson – 12 string acoustic guitar on Cocaine
John Locke – keyboards

 Nazareth are a well known hard rock band from Scotland that have been playing together since 1969. They release their first album in 1971, and have released twenty four studio albums to date; plus a bunch more compilations, greatest hits, and live albums. They are easily recognized by the gravely-voiced vocals of Dan McCafferty, and are probably most famous for their song Hair Of the Dog.


 Fool Circle was Nazareth's thirteen release (including 1975's Greatest Hits),and after completely confusing their fans with their previous pop tinged album, Malice in Wonderland,  they further alienated the faithful by producing this intelligent and sophisticated record - the first half of which has the earmarks of a concept album -with intelligible lyrics,melodic keyboard and acoustic guitars  throughout -unlike anything they had ever released before.
 Some of the song lyrics deal with themes of Cold War tensions,fat cats and family values, accidental nuclear war,and the power and evils of the media -with a couple of syrupy love songs tossed into the mix to really confuse things. Moonlight Eyes is a heartfelt love song that deserves to be played at weddings,but who would ever think to look for a love song on a Nazareth album? The capper is an excellent cover version of J.J. Cale's Cocaine, and that would be the only track to get any airplay -being included on many compilation albums to follow.
 If you are familiar with other Nazareth albums like the classic Razamanaz, forget everything you know except for the sound of McCafferty's voice. This one is different,and to my ear, better. I was going to list the standout songs, but it's easier to list the ones that aren't. After looking over the list, I have to say every one of the original LP tracks is very good. The last four tracks are bonus tracks added to the CD, and they shouldn't have been in my opinion. Having owned the original album since shortly after it came out, I find the bonus tracks just don't fit. 
 Sadly, the Nazareth fans didn't really get this album, and everyone else thought it was just another Nazareth album. Thankfully, it was eventually released on CD, and we all have an oportunity to enjoy this rarity.

RATING: I would rate it at least 4-1/2 stars, but I am biased after almost thirty years of frequent listening. This is one of my top twenty or thirty albums.
PROG APPEAL: That's a tough call. I would guess that a couple of the tracks could interest the prog crowd, especially Let Me Be Your Leader. It is a very interesting and intelligent album, and I think it's worth a listen. For a 1980 album from a grungy, knuckle-dragging bunch like Nazareth, it's a real surprise.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 07:10
Emotions are very very important for me in singing and music as such too (and I love Gabs!).  If you noticed, I used the words "compositional device", not "demonstration of technical skills".  There is a difference between hitting notes simply because you can hit them even when they don't befit the song (*cough* Mariah Carey *cough*) and carefully developing the music through the voice (instead of instruments).  It is a pervasive aspect of Indian classical music and not to be confused with technical w**k, because Indian classical music combines virtuosity with emotion, aesthetic beauty and spirituality (and no, I am not being partisan here! LOL).  Barring Jeff and Annie Haslam (more in live performances), I haven't heard any other Western singer consistently incorporate this in their singing (who am I missing!), so as I realized today, maybe my origins made it much easier for me to perceive the worth of Jeff's singing and what makes it so unique, which may have been alien and possibly cold for Westerners...I don't know, it's all conjecture.    Anyway, my point is yes, I can enjoy a singer who keeps it simple (relatively!) and soulful in the same way I would enjoy blues guitar but if everybody had to sing or play only like that, Holdsworth or McLaughlin could never have moved forward. Virtuosity AND emotion is the ultimate and it should not be as elusive as it is in rock guitar because perfection is supposed to be beautiful and awesome, not cold and self indulgent.

Edited by rogerthat - May 21 2010 at 07:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 01:34
 Yes, there are a lot of unknown and under-rated gems out there. 
 Now that's two votes for Daniel Gildenlow. I have to check him out.
 I may not be typical of Westerners, I don't know. For me, music is a completely emotional experience, not a skills competition, but like you say, there are cultural differences and there is even a difference between North America and Europe. The emotion is why I can enjoy Neil Young's barely capable guitar playing, yet Malmsteen and Vai usually  bore me (and there's another can of worms opened, LOL), and after being bored by Satriani, he really surprised me playing very well with Chickenfoot (and I have to admit that for some reason I like Michael Schenker, despite his often less than emotional playing, but there's just enough). Even with prog, I want emotion with my technically interesting music, which Is why I am such a huge fan of Peter Gabriel. High-speed scales just don't do it for me.
 Speaking of cultural differences, when Rammstein released "Amerika" in the US, they changed the keyboard solo in the middle to a guitar solo so that it would be more palatable for North Americans, since many here dislike the prominent keyboard sound. (Luckily that's not a problem for prog fans, and Muse is changing the minds of young music fans in general over here.) 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 00:07
Actually I wasn't really trying to defend Jeff, I am just baffled when I hear people saying he's overrated.  Cmon, a few internet idiots overrating Hallelujah doesn't make Jeff the singer overrated, the appreciation he's received so far is grossly disproportionate to his talent.  And I have also not heard who are these people who mourn his death incessantly, maybe I could relate to the Cobain parallel better then because my admiration for Jeff has absolutely nothing to do with his untimely death.

I know all about Rodgers and that he sang for Queen, just never got around to listening to him.  By the way, Jeff was American. LOL I was in fact referring to those rock critics and fans with what I said, not you.  They just browse through the popular bands and pick the best singers from them.  Which is fine, but when somebody suggests an underrated name, they go, "Yeah, right, whatever, LOLZ".  It's that arrogant attitude of the mainstream press and circles that I hate.

I am not as a rule blown away by female singers but Annie Haslam, Karen Carpenter and Minnie Riperton are high up in my favourites.  Among the dudes, Stevie, Jeff, Ronnie James Dio who has recently left our world Cry and Daniel Gildenlow.

By the way, what you said about not finding lot of complicated phrasing to your taste was a good insight. Not that I am of a similar view, but maybe I understood better today why Jeff is underrated.  I am Indian and in our classical music, the singer reigns supreme and becomes a compositional tool rather than just an emotional vehicle to recite the verses so I was completely blown away to see a Western singer try to approach singing in a similar way .  But I guess that's not how Westerners like it. Confused




Edited by rogerthat - May 21 2010 at 00:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 23:33
 I'm not quick to pick favourites either, but I do defend the ones I like when someone criticizes them.I can't help myself, it's a psychological flaw, probably related to always cheering for underdogs.Embarrassed
I'm glad to see rogerthat standing up for Buckley. It was just such a discussion a while back that made me go listen to him, and I heard Hallelujah.

 Paul Rogers was the vocalist for Free, Bad Company, and lately Queen, and it was rock writers and magazine fans that picked him as the best voice in rock, not me (and he is English, now residing part time here in Canada). 
 I don't know if I really have a favourite vocalist. I'm more of a fan of really good songwriting plus good emotional vocals-in fact I'll take emotion over a perfect voice most of the time. My favourite vocalists tend to be women -Sinaed O'Connor, Bjork, Johnette Napolitano, KD Lang, Fiona Apple, Feist, Sade, Courtney Love...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 19:42
Originally posted by motrhead motrhead wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

 
I stand by what I said about that and your post proves it. You are referring to what you like to hear in your singing, not the skill of the singer.  Obviously, Jeff's phrasing would at places be more inaccurate because they are often far more complicated.  


 Okay, I can accept that.. but...look at the simplicity of Paul Rogers phrasing-yet he is often called the best voice in rock. For me complicated doen't necessarily mean better. But again, it's only my opinion.Smile




I haven't ever heard Paul Rodgers but as such I don't even want to get into this best voice of rock business. It's very biased and favours only popular - and, usually, American - singers. Daniel Gildenlow never comes up for mention in these circles because he's singing and playing prog metal and is from Sweden. Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clarke2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 17:54
This is a great idea! Perhaps we will have less ridiculous prog-related suggestions, and be able to enjoy music because it's, well, good music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 17:39
Matthew Good Band-Underdogs



Underdogs 1997

Matthew Good (vocals, guitar)
Dave Genn (lead guitar/keyboard)
Ian Browne (drums)
Geoff Lloyd (bass) 

Tracklist:
1.Deep Six
2.Everything is Automatic
3.Apparitions
4.My Out of Style is Coming Back
5.Strangest One of All
6.Middle Class Gangsters
7.Rico
8.Prime Time Deliverance
9.The Inescapable Us
10.Indestructible
11.Invasion
12.Look Happy, Its The End of the World
13.Change of Seasons

 The Matthew Good Band was an alternative rock band from Coquitlam,BC,Canada. Formed in 1993, they released their first album in 1995 and eventually released four albums and two EPs before breaking up in 2002. Following their breakup, Matt went solo and has released five albums since then.

 Underdogs is the second album from the MGB, released in1997, and produced three hits; one of which, Apparitions, became the band's biggest hit. Matt is known for writing intelligent and often dark lyrics, usually involving some sort of social commentary beyond the usual teenaged angst lyrics common to the genre, and this album was no exception. Recurring themes are homelessness, the sorry state of Western society, and the evils of corporate greed. Matt is never afraid to tell it like it is, and is currently known as a political activist and blogger as well as a solo artist.
 Musically, MGB are hard alternative rock but aren't afraid to turn it down for a soulful vocal performance, and Matt can sing with the best of them. At times his vocals are reminiscent of Richard Ashcroft or maybe even Jeff Buckley, but easily switch to the hard edged sneer you would expect from a punk band-from snarling to soaring in a word. With the crunchy and melodic guitar playing of Dave Genn (now with 54-40), and the energetic and accurate drumming of Ian Browne, the music stretches beyond the boundaries of hard alternative rock -offering occasional glimpses of quiet yet forceful folk rock on Change of Season,and at other times delivering a louder, punk rock energy (Deep Six, and Look Happy,It's the End Of the World).
 Dave plays grunge guitar on Strangest One of All, and acoustic on Change of Season and The Inescapable Us; while a  slow soulful organ underpins Prime Time Deliverance.
 My personal favourites are: the hit Apparitions; Prime Time Deliverance,The Inescapable Us, Indestructible, and the slower Change of Season...but you won't find a weak track on this album.

RATING:
 I don't feel right giving many albums (other than Wish You Were Here) a 5 rating -to me this one probably deserves it, but I will try to be objective and will settle for 4-3/4 stars out of 5,only because the next MGB album "Beautiful Midnight" may have actually been better!

PROG APPEAL:
 Probably not a whole lot. It's pretty much rock and roll, but the vocals may appeal to those that can  appreciate a vocalist that isn't afraid to sing emotionally (Jeff Buckley fans may approve). These are catchy tunes, and are worth checking out.  











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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 12:22
 I'm not touching that...LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WalterDigsTunes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 12:14
Originally posted by motrhead motrhead wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

 
I stand by what I said about that and your post proves it. You are referring to what you like to hear in your singing, not the skill of the singer.  Obviously, Jeff's phrasing would at places be more inaccurate because they are often far more complicated.  


 Okay, I can accept that.. but...look at the simplicity of Paul Rogers phrasing-yet he is often called the best voice in rock. For me complicated doen't necessarily mean better. But again, it's only my opinion.Smile




Really? I thought the Voice of Rock was Glenn Hughes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 12:13
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

 
I stand by what I said about that and your post proves it. You are referring to what you like to hear in your singing, not the skill of the singer.  Obviously, Jeff's phrasing would at places be more inaccurate because they are often far more complicated.  


 Okay, I can accept that.. but...look at the simplicity of Paul Rogers phrasing-yet he is often called the best voice in rock. For me complicated doen't necessarily mean better. But again, it's only my opinion.Smile




Edited by motrhead - May 20 2010 at 12:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 11:55
Originally posted by motrhead motrhead wrote:

It's just personal preference.Smile I"m sorry, but it all boils down to personal opinion.


I stand by what I said about that and your post proves it. You are referring to what you like to hear in your singing, not the skill of the singer.  Obviously, Jeff's phrasing would at places be more inaccurate because they are often far more complicated. 

 
Quote You misunderstand about the waving flag thing. 
 Between Muse and Jeff Buckley, I prefer Muse. I thought you were saying you preferred Buckley to Muse.


Ok, misunderstood this, sorry. Embarrassed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 11:51
 BTW, the trombone thing in school traumatised me for life. I generally do not like horns any more, unless it's something  really special (like Miles Davis).  All I wanted then was to be a drummer. Now I have a Strat, so I guess it  worked out for the best Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 11:45
In My Humble Opinion...it's just an opinion. I don't think you can establish either is better. It's too subjective. Okay, if you really want  to dissect things...I don't have a great voice myself, but I do have so-called "perfect pitch" which is why an evil freaking music teacher made me play trombone in schoolAngry... LOL. I tend to hear every freaking little inaccuracy in what others hear as a flawless performance and it drives friends nuts. (Which is why I have to be careful how much to say when I'm in my brother's studio - I'm too much of a perfectionist and have to learn when to call something good enough).
 I hear a few more inaccuracies in Jeff's phrasing that I generally do in Matt's. So what?Freddy Mercury was often guilty of worse, and Robert Plant was horrendous on that front. I was referring to the quality of Jeff's voice, not the notes he can hit. Yes Jeff sings more comlicated phrases. I don't happen to like that. It's just personal preference.Smile I"m sorry, but it all boils down to personal opinion. 
 You misunderstand about the waving flag thing. 
 Between Muse and Jeff Buckley, I prefer Muse. I thought you were saying you preferred Buckley to Muse. That's all. I wasn't commenting on whether or not you are a Muse fan.
 This is quite ridiculous. Let's drop it, and I'll get back to the review I'm working on. 
 Have a great day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 11:08
Originally posted by motrhead motrhead wrote:

  since I think Matt is better (IMHO).


What is IMHO better?  One prefers some singers to others, which is taste, and one establishes to a reasonable extent who is better.   I can easily establish that Jeff had far more control as also range than Matt, it's not a question of opinions because there are many things in music that can be observed and singing skills is one of them.
 
Quote The vocal (and song) sounds contrived like he was trying to be Robert Plant, and he just doesn't have the power.


Like hell he doesn't have the power when he can hit notes Plant couldn't have touched.   Once again, these are things that can be established.  And Robert Plant is only one aspect of the vocals and song, what about the Hindustani phrasing in that delicate landing in the middle?

 
Quote So there we have it.  I'll wave the Muse flag, and you can wave Jeff Buckley's.Thumbs Up



This is quite ridiculous, I have already said I am a Muse fan.  I didn't know being a Muse fan entails saying that Matt is a better singer than Jeff. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 10:25
 Okay we'll agree to disagree.Smile He is pretty good, I'll give you that...but to those saying he's better than Yorke or Bellamy, I won't agree, since I think Matt is better (IMHO).
 Mojo Pin doesn't work for me. The vocal (and song) sounds contrived like he was trying to be Robert Plant, and he just doesn't have the power. Now Blind Melon could have made that song work...
 This is why I don't own any of the later Queen albums. Freddy's vocals got to sound more and more contrived (yes, I understand that was always his style, but it seemed worse later) -like he was singing show tunes or something. I despise show tunes and voices warbling all over for the effect, unless it's a  Marlene Dietrich torch song.  
 I disagree about  Buckley's songs being more intense than Muse; I find just the opposite.
 So there we have it.  I'll wave the Muse flag, and you can wave Jeff Buckley's.Thumbs Up



Edited by motrhead - May 20 2010 at 10:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 05:47
Originally posted by motrhead motrhead wrote:

  I knew I would be treading on someones hallowed ground. Embarrassed I went out of my way a while back, and checked out Grace for myself. I agree Jeff had a great voice, and his is a sad story, but sometimes I think it's like the Heath Ledger /Kurt Cobain thing. His singing is too James Blunt (or dare I say it, John Mayer...nah, that's not quite fair) for my liking. I prefer someone like Perry Farell,or Matthew Good for intense vocals. Those guys sing from the cajones, but Jeff doen't quite convince me, except  on Hallelujah (no surprise, it's a Cohen cover like one of my all time faves by Concrete Blonde-"Everybody Knows"), but his other songs just seem a little weak to me.  
 As far as Matt Bellamy goes, check out Muse,"Hoodoo", or "Falling Away With You". Matt can sing too, while he plays the blistering guitar, or classical piano. I saw Muse in April, and they were freaking amazing live. 
 I am biased. I like my music to rock harder, or be more gentle and folkie. Jeff's music is lost somewhere in the middle and doesn't really grab me. It's reminds me of one of many  weak 80's albums that I can't really get into. 
 I do have Halelujah in my music folder on this laptop, but that's the only one of his.Tongue
 I'll shut up and duck now. lol

Expressing an opinion is not treading on anybody's hallowed ground Smile, so why would I object to that?  I am responding to saying "takes more than a great voice", calling him overrated and now that he's a Heath/Cobain case.  Jeff has way more facility as a singer than Bellamy or Yorke, especially in oscillating smoothly between falsetto, mixed and head voice.  He also used to play guitar while singing live and had great facility on guitar too, for your info. Wink I don't think most serious fan overrate him because he had a great voice or died early, actually I didn't know he was dead the first time I heard Grace and I had already been swept away.  And while Grace is not hard rocking in the Muse sense, moments of it like in Mojo Pin, the title track or Forget Her are a lot more intense than any Muse.   It is quite amusing to hear Jeff get called overrated because so few even seem to perceive the full extent of his vocal wizardry or his unorthodox adventurism as a songwriter.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motrhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 02:45
  I knew I would be treading on someones hallowed ground. Embarrassed I went out of my way a while back, and checked out Grace for myself. I agree Jeff had a great voice, and his is a sad story, but sometimes I think it's like the Heath Ledger /Kurt Cobain thing. His singing is too James Blunt (or dare I say it, John Mayer...nah, that's not quite fair) for my liking. I prefer someone like Perry Farell,or Matthew Good for intense vocals. Those guys sing from the cajones, but Jeff doen't quite convince me, except  on Hallelujah (no surprise, it's a Cohen cover like one of my all time faves by Concrete Blonde-"Everybody Knows"), but his other songs just seem a little weak to me.  
 As far as Matt Bellamy goes, check out Muse,"Hoodoo", or "Falling Away With You". Matt can sing too, while he plays the blistering guitar, or classical piano. I saw Muse in April, and they were freaking amazing live. 
 I am biased. I like my music to rock harder, or be more gentle and folkie. Jeff's music is lost somewhere in the middle and doesn't really grab me. It's reminds me of one of many  weak 80's albums that I can't really get into. 
 I do have Halelujah in my music folder on this laptop, but that's the only one of his.Tongue
 I'll shut up and duck now. lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2010 at 01:05
Originally posted by motrhead motrhead wrote:



3-Jeff Buckley.... Many try to compare him to Matt Bellamy or Thom Yorke, but the songs are simply too weak, boring and pop for me. It takes more than a great voice.


OK, I will respond to this because the rest is purely your taste and it's no concern of mine if you wouldn't give less than a star to my favourite Western music artist. LOL  Jeff WAS more than just a great voice(I hear this a lot about Annie Haslam too and it's frankly quite tiresome to have to explain things), he could beat the daylights out of both those gentlemen in singing (and I am a HUGE fan of Radiohead and Muse, so no prejudice here!) and was a brilliant songwriter too. I do not know at this point if it would be worth elaborating on the wonderful and unpredictable shifts in the vocal melody and chord sequences on just the title track of Grace, as also the incredible control over falsetto he displayed on the same song but if that is not interesting, don't know what is.  Maybe if there are other fans or somebody who is in a mood to reexamine opinions...
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