What is Prog?

 

Carl Snow wrote: easy answer: 'progressive rock' = rock(etc) that progresses. The Beach Boys 'Pet Sounds' , for example, pushed aside earlier notions of "pop"(whatever that is) by 'progressing' (moving past) the lines drawn around its, then current,  conventions. its really a matter of not being bound by oneself to color within the lines. but thats just my 2cents

 

Trouble with this definition is that rock (and pop) music necessarily progresses over time. Compare what rock music sounded like in 1955 with what it sounded like in 1960, then compare that with 1965, 1970, 1975, 1980 and so on.

 

The underlying "progressiveness" of "Pet Sounds" (the use of common objects as instruments) is acually regressive - "Jug" bands had been doing exactly that for decades. The songs themselves are simply elaborate pop songs. It's the overall sound that was so striking, not the music.

 

On the final point, I'd say it's exactly the opposite - the more you confine yourself in music, the easier it is to have complete freedom. If you set no boundaries, you set no direction, having nothing to push against or aim at, and the music becomes a mire of uninspired noodle.

 

That's why Jazzers used to improvise around "standards", because the very act of locking yourself into a known tune gives instant structure to your improvs, and the limits you've set become boundaries to push against.

 

 

The T wrote: ...we dare to call the metal that is listed here in PA, progressive-metal.

Just let me see if our much maligned genre would fit this definition, which I will take as valid just for the purposes of my response (it's very very likely that this is a valid definition)

 

Certif1ed wrote: Progressive Rock is a form of Rock music with an artistic intention, that is both composed and improvised, takes its influences from a wide variety of sources, and fuses these approaches together to create music that is distinctly unlike anything that has preceeded it.

 

Now, for the riff-raff noisy genre:

 

A form of rock music - Definitely what we dare to call progressive-metal is a form of metal; metal, in the end, is a form of rock music pretty much stripped of some elements of the original thing but still part of it. Hence prog-metal fits this part of the definition though not 100%.

 

With an artistic intention - Well, it fits. Maybe some people won't think of it as high art or anything (many people wouldn't consider even prog-rock as high art anyway) but the INTENTION is artistic. It's obvious that commercial gain is not really the intention in most prog-metal bands as the genre has proved to be a complete disaster to generate wealth and sales. No MTV exposure and no awards and no fame, I think it has a different intention. MAybe it's not artistic, maybe it's a psychological effort to boost egos by means of showing off, but as they have opted to use an art form to do that, let's agree they do it with an artistic intention. There's no question, though, that what we dare to call "prog metal" has a much more evident artistic intention that commercial metal bands. Hence we daring to call it "prog metal" as it tries to distance itself for commercial friendly metal.

 

Both composed and Improvised - We can't say much about the "composed" part. Now, about the "improvised" part, this may be a difficult point to prove. In general, prog-metal bands have certain "improvisation" (call them jamming) moments in live performances or even in record (Liquid Tension) but that distinct flavor that the person who wrote this definition asks for maybe it's missing: the fact that prog should sound at the same time composed but improvised, free. Prog-metal tends to be tightly composed around riffs and structures (many times irregular structures, but rigid structures nevertheless). It's difficult to sense that feeling of "improvisation" that one feels with old-70's prog bands. It CAN be found from time to time. So I'd say this element fits in prg-metal only 40% or so. BUT, it can be found a lot more in what we dare to call "prog-metal" than in traditional commercial metal. Hence we daring to call it "prog-metal" as it clearly tries to distance itself from simpler, radio-friendly metal. (by the way, even though metal is not the radio-friendliest of genres, it has a lot of exposure in metal radios. But usually prog-metal is not part of the broadcast).

 

Takes influences from a variety of sources - well, prog-metal biggest influence is off course metal, in many of its forms (death, thrash, etc). But in prog metal you'll find elements of other genres (jazz, classical, even flamenco). Though maybe those influences at times may sound gimmicky, at times they're fully integrated in the music. Prog-metal fits this part of the definition. And its influences are much more varied than those of traditional commercial metal. Hence we daring to call it "prog metal" as it clearly tries to distance itself from radio-friendly metal.

 

Fuses approaches to create something distinctly unlike anything that has preceeded it - Prog-metal fuses its influences and the elements of this definition (even if some don't fit 100%) to create music; we got that part right. Now the "unlike anything that has preceded it". That may be more difficult with hundred of derivative bands that exist. The same, though, can be said of retro-symphonic-prog or neo-prog bands that don't really sound unlike anything that preceeded them. As always, as with any genre, there are bands that sound original and some that  follow them. It can be said that even those original bands (let's say, DIABLO SWING ORCHESTRA) are still using the same riffs and progressions and structures that have been used before, even if they sound unique. Well, music exists since... the old 70's bands were also using elements of classical music that they didn't invent, elements of jazz they didn't create... Yes, their forms were freer, therefore they sounded fresh. It still borrowed from somewhere. Prog-Metal borrows not so much from prog-rock but from METAL. As it if were a different thing that music. What is clear is that in the bands that we dare to call "prog metal" there's a much more distinct approach at trying to re-invent the genre than in commercial metal bands (even if sometimes they may end sounding like clones... just like neo prog bands)... Hence we daring to call it "prog-metal".

 

I will say that maybe progressive-metal is not really a b*****d child of prog-rock but just a cocky, pretensious nerdy son of METAL. Maybe it wouldn't be out of place to, actually, delete all metal bands from PA as they clearly don't belong in the same genre as King Crimson or the others. Maybe, after all, progressive-metal just belongs in a METAL website as a subgenre called, well, "progressive-metal".

 

Just three points:

 

- Even if it's by means of extended solos, virtuosism (call it shredding, whatever you want), odd time signatures, and other minor elements, progressive metal tries to be "more" than traditional commercial friendly metal. And as a subgenre of rock (metal it is), we may dare to call it "progressive" metal.

 

- The elements I just used come from ONE definition of progressive rock, that one found in the original post in this thread. As it hasn't been proved to be the ultimate definition (how will we prove it anyway), prog-metal may still find its way in another one. This is ONE definition coming from one person.

 

- In the big scheme of things, this is really not important at all. But in the genreal consensus of what is and what isn't "progressive", what we dare to call "progressive metal" has been generally absoved and accepted as part of the big "progressive rock" umbrella. Therefore, and we'll have to be excused for this, we dare to call the metal that is listed here in PA, progressive-metal.

 

 

Hello friend,

 

I' ve read your essay with much interest and pleasure. It's a relief to know that there are others too who spend their sleepless nights trying to ponder the nature of the mysterious, fluid and multiform phenomenon called "progressive rock".

 

For me, "progressive rock" is rock's attempt to be a serious music of its time. When rock wants to be serious, or to be taken seriously, when it abandons any ambition to be immediately entertaining, when it is transformed into forms whereby its protagonists can fully express their esthetic or social ideas (no matter how personal, unusual or unpopular they might be), then it goes prog. A serious music of its time (distinguished from other, non-rock attempts to produce modern serious music, such as jazz, modern orchestral music, modern electronic music, various auteur forms...). 

 

Thus, definitely, prog is not pop.  Prog is art, or attempts to be art, and I definitely agree with you on that point. 

 

Aside from this spiritual definition one can, and this has predominantly been done, offer a structural definition of prog: tendency to produce long pieces; compositional, rhythmic or instrumental complexity; primacy of music over discourse; love of theatrical elements, frequent use of keyboard instruments, proneness to concept albums, and so on and so on.

 

However, I think that these structural elements are frequent but not essential. One can easily find prog pieces shorter than 5 minutes, not complicated, with much singing or recitation, sober or detached (rather than theatrical), not keyboard-dominated and not included within a concept album format. Yet, I admit that the afore-mentioned structural elements are indeed very frequent.

 

Thus, to conclude and to concede to the structuralists, let’s say that “"progressive rock" is rock's attempt to be a serious music of its time, frequently characterized by long compositions, structural complexity and theatrical elements.

 

This is just a working definition, of course.

 

Cheers!

 

Boris Radovic, Belgrade, Serbia