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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 02 2009 at 00:29 |
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Chris S ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
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Very debateable discussion.....either way I am sure He/She/It would be flattered because us humans, as sure as eggs is eggs, think more about God than God thinks of us What I believe is that every single individual choice of belief/unbelief is to be truly respected. |
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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VanderGraafKommandöh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
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No, Iván.
I'm a strong atheist (not that I like to use the term, as I mentioned earlier). I do not preach this. I know God (not just in the traditional sense) does not exist. I do not need any facts (not that any exist) of his existence or non-existence. There maybe others who think the same way as me but that's neither here nor their. I do not converse with these people and neither do I convert others over. And it's not denial either. I do not need evidence. Having said that, I do not like to label myself. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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No, Stonebeard, that's Weak Atheism..."I believe there's probably not God, but I don't have proves of him not existing"
Strong Atheism is the total denial of the existence of God, and IMO a form of religion, because the denial without evidence of the existence of an entity is a form of faith.
Agnostic comes from two Greek words:
A: Without
Gnosis: Knowledge.
In other words a person who has not knowledge about God's existence, as simple as that, their philosophy is based in the fact that to deny the existence of God requires the exact leap of faith than to believe in his existence, because there's no way in our human condition that we can prove that God exists or not.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 01 2009 at 23:09 |
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stonebeard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
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Well, that doesn't seem to imply that there needs to be a consciousness in the universe, but if there was, then I guess that makes sense to say that thing is worth calling omniscient. However, this is all fine for speculation, and I'm sure atheists would find much less to criticize (except for that this consciousness you're describing doesn't seem to demand a religion based around it) if everyone were to believe in God this way. You seem to be describing pantheism, in a way. This is a concept of God I really have a neutral standpoint toward. It's more of the singular, outside of the universe and mettlesome God of the monotheistic religions that has everyone up in arms. |
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heyitsthatguy ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 17 2006 Location: Washington Hgts Status: Offline Points: 10094 |
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I have no problem with atheism whatsoever, (personally I'm not entirely sure where I stand religiously as of late, somewhere in the Christian/Deist realm) but the message just kind of seems like it has the 'there is no god' part tacked on for no other real reason
then again one could argue a huge sign saying 'God loves you, now stop worrying and enjoy your life' has the first part tacked on for similar reasons either way, the reality is....they're signs on buses. They're not reaching down peoples throats and beating them senseless with a message, and unless someone is EXTREMELY susceptible to outside influence, they're not going to change anyone's viewpoint one way or another. personally, I'd prefer just a sign that said STOP WORRYING AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE or maybe DON'T PANIC yeah that one has a nice ring to it |
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BaldFriede ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
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But the way I perceive God, as the cosmic process, "he" is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. Omnipotent, simply because everything that happens is part of the cosmic process: whatever can happen will happen.
Omnipresent: Definitely too; the cosmic process is everywhere. And omniscient? Yes, that too, as it appears. The latest scientific developments seem to suggest that the universe is of a holographic nature. You may know that even a tiny fragment of a hologram will still contain the whole picture, and this is how the world appears to be too. As to omnibenevolent: That would depend a lot on the definition of "benevolent". One might argue that the simple fact that we exist proves this benevolence; where God malevolent we wouldn't. However, I don't see why omnibenevolence would necessarily have to be a quality of God; actually not even the God of Christianity is omnibenevolent. Or would you call the deluge a "benevolent act"? That would be stretching the word indeed. Edited by BaldFriede - March 01 2009 at 20:48 |
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![]() BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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stonebeard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
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I'm responding to the typical representation of God: omnipotent, (possibly) omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent, and interventionist, like in the big three monotheistic religions. Buddhist, Gaian, pantheist, and all other atypical representations of God can be responded to differently, I suppose. |
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BaldFriede ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
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That last question is easily answered: In a number system based on the number 13 (instead of 10, as we are used to) 6x9=42 indeed (4*13+2=54). ![]() |
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![]() BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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For me it all boils down to:
Who made God? And why does anything exist anyway? And of course, why does six by nine equal forty two? Edited by Slartibartfast - March 01 2009 at 19:24 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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BaldFriede ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
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Why does it appear highly improbable? I don't see that at all; on the contrary. A certain image of God is improbable; I agree to that. But God as being THE process is not improbable at all. You seem to doubt a process can have consciousness. Yet where does your own consciousness arise from? Don't say "my brain" because it is definitely not true; no-one has been able to explain how consciousness arises from it. It is not the brain itself, it is the process which is going on it which is your consciousness, that's the only thing we know. Once you are dead your consciousness is gone, because the process has ended, although the brain is still there. So there is a process with consciousness. Is it not logical to follow that the process which is going on in the universe, with its myriads of sub-processes, does have a consciousness too, simply because it is incredibly more complex than the process in your brain? You may take the position that no-one knows if consciousness really ends when you are dead, and you have a point there. However, wouldn't that position be quite contrary to your original position? |
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![]() BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Petrovsk Mizinski ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
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The Atheist Bus campaign is awesome IMO.
I'm an atheist, so just getting this out there. |
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The Doctor ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
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that would make you an aagnostic.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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I don't believe in agnostics, atheists on the other hand...
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 01 2009 at 20:00 |
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stonebeard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
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Literally, yes, but agnostic and atheist have come to be separated from those terms in some circles at some times, which makes talking about it and defining the terms annoying. Because literally, yes, that's what the etymology of the words is, but they have come to mean different things to different people with varying knowledge on the subject. |
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stonebeard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
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There's a difference between being agnostic and not willing to choose a side and being agnostic and acting like there probably isn't a God. Even Richard Dawkins says that no one knows if God exists or not. No one. Anyone who is sure of the matter is a fool. But he, like myself and many others, act day to day as if there is not a God, because it seems highly improbable.
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The Quiet One ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 15745 |
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So I don't know what I am, after all ![]() ![]() |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Agnostic is a person who simply believes that God's existence or not, can't be proved with human senses, so there's no reason to care about this matter.
And no, they don't reach any knowledge on this issue.
Iván
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VanderGraafKommandöh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
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Yes, I am an Atheist -- in regards to the definition (unlike Pnoom! who thinks I'm pompous and actually Agnostic ![]() However I don't like to term myself as one; even though I am one. It's like me saying I'm an existentialist or a socialist. I'd rather just be me and not use terms to describe myself. Edited by James - March 01 2009 at 17:17 |
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The Doctor ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
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A little etymology here. Atheist comes from Ancient Greek meaning "godless" - a = without, theos = god. Gnosis was also an Ancient Greek term meaning "knowledge" in particular spiritual knowledge. Hence Agnostic = without spiritual knowledge. |
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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