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Wth.. what is this.. where does this fit?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2021 at 12:32
and the original



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2021 at 12:34
Monsoon - The LP was called Third Eye (not Eastern Eye as I said in earlier reply) , the whole thing is up on Y/T




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2021 at 16:30
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I still listen to Ever So Lonely regularly . To me it's a bit like Visage -Fade to Grey creating a wonderful feeling through sound.
Any chance of Eastern Eye being reissued? I would love a copy of that on CD , think it includes a cover of the Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows.

You can still find Third Eye cd under the name "Monsoon Featuring Sheila Chandra".  It's still a bit pricey around $30-40 if you shop around.  It's a better version since it also includes the Hindi versions of Ever So Lonely and Wings of Dawn.  I like the Hindi versions:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2021 at 18:16
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

It's garbage but we still don't know if it's prog.


It was discussed in the UK vs US prog thread awhile back. I think it’s not garbage, and I think it is, if not (US) prog, then proto-(US) prog, as per the direction of “definition” of US prog in the aforementioned thread.


NAM PROGGYOHO RENGE KYO, </yt-atted->NAM PROGGYOHO RENGE KYO, NAM PROGGYOHO RENGE KYO, NAM PROGGYOHO RENGE KYO, NAM PROGGYOHO RENGE KYO, NAM PROGGYOHO RENGE KYO...

And that's the most accessible part of the music.

Edited by SteveG - May 23 2021 at 18:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 03:22
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

As a lover of experimental music I've got to say, without diminishing the impact and artistic value, I don't get much out of that LaMonte Young piece, but I like Gabor Szabo's and Dick Hyman's a lot. I'm personally not much interested in the question where exactly this stuff fits but if it is at least not alien enough to prog that from time to time people bring this kind of stuff up in the forum, that's fine by me.

Here's something else:

I can visualize this being played as some soundtrack of a movie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 03:28
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ referring to Derbyshire she did some great soundtrack stuff!

As long as we're sharing weird unclassifiable music, i just recently discovered this 70s gem


LOL... that first track sounds like something you want to listen to when having a bath.  Definitely weird.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 03:29
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

and the original






One of the greatest hit singles of all time.

I still love it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 03:31
As for the track in the OP, the start sounds like cows being electrocuted. The rest is a droning dirge. Experimentation in music is essential of course, but the result needs to be enjoyable to listen to. IMHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 03:47
Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

My particular interest is to keep finding things in the 60s/early 70s which I would want to buy for my completeness during this period and I came across this which I think I am going to pass on but wtf... what is it? Is it Prog?

La Monte Young & Marian Zazeela - The Black Album - 1969



Maybe there is a need for a ...what the heck category? Confused
 
The sounds are quite interesting, but I don't think I could listen to them for more than a few minutes before losing interest. As for the album as a whole, I would rate it 1 or 2 stars due to the lack of substance. I do not regard this as music, though I do not say this as a criticism, but rather as a statement that it does not conform to my idea of what is music. (I should remark that my idea of what is music is quite independent of the creator's intentions, depending only on the creation itself.)
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 04:29
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

The sounds are quite interesting, but I don't think I could listen to them for more than a few minutes before losing interest. As for the album as a whole, I would rate it 1 or 2 stars due to the lack of substance. I do not regard this as music, though I do not say this as a criticism, but rather as a statement that it does not conform to my idea of what is music. (I should remark that my idea of what is music is quite independent of the creator's intentions, depending only on the creation itself.)

I agree it's a difficult listen, as I indicated in the OP I came across it by accident and it is one of the most extreme pieces I ever found, so was curious about what people here thought about it.

I think of myself as being extremely progressive in music and therefore tolerant of all ideas by artists, so often I just listen to something as a curiosity.  But, doing this I find interesting as sometimes I find things that I would otherwise not have found.  The late sixties is a hotbed for the unusual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 04:48
Here is another wtf.. electronic moment in 1969:

Jon Appleton - Appleton Syntonic Menagerie - 1969



Your thoughts on this?

I think it makes some of the experimental Krautrock sound like Bing Crosby... lol (joking)


Edited by Spaciousmind - May 24 2021 at 04:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 04:54
Jon Appleton was one of the first composers to work with electronics. He also wrote books on the subject. I don't have any of his records but I do have one of his early books.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 05:21
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

As for the track in the OP, the start sounds like cows being electrocuted. The rest is a droning dirge. Experimentation in music is essential of course, but the result needs to be enjoyable to listen to. IMHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 05:49
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

As for the track in the OP, the start sounds like cows being electrocuted. The rest is a droning dirge. Experimentation in music is essential of course, but the result needs to be enjoyable to listen to. IMHO.
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Interestingly, I came into the living room as my youngest daughter was watching a children's television program about music. The only reason I even paid it any attention is because Libby announced, “look, Daddy, the robots are listening to music, like you do. The only reason it held my attention is because it was one of those weird children’s television programs where they use quite adult language to explain a concept, so that it sounds quite out of place. It was all simple language, except that the robots were learning what makes the difference between what is noise and what is music. I can’t say I agreed entirely with how they defined it, but for the most part it was the most expansive definition of music I had seen for such a young audience, so I really quite liked it. Apparently, what turns noise into music is organisation (which is something robots very much appreciate), and what needs to be organised are five things: melody, harmony, rhythm, timbre and intensity. (At least, I think that was the five). But not all five need to be organised, and this is what often makes music for one robot noise for another, as different robots react to different things, depending on how they’ve been programmed.

I mention this, because the idea that “experimentation in music is essential, of course, but th result needs to be enjoyable”, is kind of a red herring. As while it might not be enjoyable, and therefore perhaps not music, to one ear, another might not only find it musical, but enjoyable.

Anyway, sorry, I just felt the need to say this, as it was so close to what the robots were discussing....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 06:29
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

As for the track in the OP, the start sounds like cows being electrocuted. The rest is a droning dirge. Experimentation in music is essential of course, but the result needs to be enjoyable to listen to. IMHO.

Clap


Interestingly, I came into the living room as my youngest daughter was watching a children's television program about music. The only reason I even paid it any attention is because Libby announced, “look, Daddy, the robots are listening to music, like you do. The only reason it held my attention is because it was one of those weird children’s television programs where they use quite adult language to explain a concept, so that it sounds quite out of place. It was all simple language, except that the robots were learning what makes the difference between what is noise and what is music. I can’t say I agreed entirely with how they defined it, but for the most part it was the most expansive definition of music I had seen for such a young audience, so I really quite liked it. Apparently, what turns noise into music is organisation (which is something robots very much appreciate), and what needs to be organised are five things: melody, harmony, rhythm, timbre and intensity. (At least, I think that was the five). But not all five need to be organised, and this is what often makes music for one robot noise for another, as different robots react to different things, depending on how they’ve been programmed.

I mention this, because the idea that “experimentation in music is essential, of course, but th result needs to be enjoyable”, is kind of a red herring. As while it might not be enjoyable, and therefore perhaps not music, to one ear, another might not only find it musical, but enjoyable.

Anyway, sorry, I just felt the need to say this, as it was so close to what the robots were discussing....



I do actually agree, and did think that as I typed my comment. It is subjective, of course. I do at least consider what was shared in the OP as music, because of the 'organization' of the sounds as you put it. To my ears personally, it merely doesn't please, but if it has an audience, it should be heard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirakaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 08:15
This is nothing, go listen to Iannis Xenakis's S.709 if you really want to challenge your ears Tongue

La Monte Young's music and drone music in general just doesn't do it for me. I'm fine with coarse musical textures and a lack of (clear) compositional structure, but I want pieces of music to continually engage me and I want to be able to find something new in a piece every time I hear it, and I don't get that with ultra-minimalist stuff like the track in the OP.


Edited by Mirakaze - May 24 2021 at 08:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 08:26
Originally posted by Mirakaze Mirakaze wrote:

This is nothing, go listen to Iannis Xenakis's S.709 if you really want to challenge your ears Tongue


This is amazing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 08:38
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

As for the track in the OP, the start sounds like cows being electrocuted. The rest is a droning dirge. Experimentation in music is essential of course, but the result needs to be enjoyable to listen to. IMHO.

Clap


Interestingly, I came into the living room as my youngest daughter was watching a children's television program about music. The only reason I even paid it any attention is because Libby announced, “look, Daddy, the robots are listening to music, like you do. The only reason it held my attention is because it was one of those weird children’s television programs where they use quite adult language to explain a concept, so that it sounds quite out of place. It was all simple language, except that the robots were learning what makes the difference between what is noise and what is music. I can’t say I agreed entirely with how they defined it, but for the most part it was the most expansive definition of music I had seen for such a young audience, so I really quite liked it. Apparently, what turns noise into music is organisation (which is something robots very much appreciate), and what needs to be organised are five things: melody, harmony, rhythm, timbre and intensity. (At least, I think that was the five). But not all five need to be organised, and this is what often makes music for one robot noise for another, as different robots react to different things, depending on how they’ve been programmed.

I mention this, because the idea that “experimentation in music is essential, of course, but th result needs to be enjoyable”, is kind of a red herring. As while it might not be enjoyable, and therefore perhaps not music, to one ear, another might not only find it musical, but enjoyable.

Anyway, sorry, I just felt the need to say this, as it was so close to what the robots were discussing....



I do actually agree, and did think that as I typed my comment. It is subjective, of course. I do at least consider what was shared in the OP as music, because of the 'organization' of the sounds as you put it. To my ears personally, it merely doesn't please, but if it has an audience, it should be heard.
There are many outre music artists on PA that make music that I think is prog. That doesn't mean that it's good prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 08:45
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

There are many outre music artists on PA that make music that I think is prog. That doesn't mean that it's good prog.

But what is good prog? What is good music? It’s all subjective, isn’t it? And even if there were some objective way of defining what is good music and/or good prog, it wouldn’t necessarily change anyone’s personal enjoyment. Personal enjoyment is somewhat detached from whether or not something is “good”, I guess.....? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[EDIT] I guess, also, that how good something is is also independent of how important and/or influential it is. For even if something is not seen as particularly good, it can still inspire other works that are seen as good.



Edited by nick_h_nz - May 24 2021 at 08:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2021 at 08:57
I genuinely find the Le Monte Young piece good.

I distinguish between personal taste and quality. Quality can be discussed, because it depends on point of view, core artistic values, your own cultural upbringing and so on. Personal taste can not be discussed.

I would regard the Le Monte Young piece as quality music based on my views. Then there is music I also regard as quality but which doesn't really appeal to me (Yes, for instance).

Admittedly, the two aspects (taste and quality) do blur quite a lot.


Edited by The Anders - May 24 2021 at 09:11
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