Perfect (Modern) Prog ... does it exist?

Screw marillion. they have given me nothing but happiness for too long!

Hey, i can name so many albums which are perfect ACCORDING TO ME.
But I'm sure many won't agree as music is such a subject where it all depends on the person.

Maybe lets make a scientific definition on what perfect prog. is?Let teh scientists analyze the sounds of the instruments as well as vocals, define the most pleasing combination and duration to which a human being should be exposed to and get the perfect equation! Tests should be done on a wide variety of people who think differently and the average should be taken.

Did i just make sense or am i drunk?

Demonoid wrote: Hey, i can name so many albums which are perfect ACCORDING TO ME. But I'm sure many won't agree as music is such a subject where it all depends on the person. Maybe lets make a scientific definition on what perfect prog. is?Let teh scientists analyze the sounds of the instruments as well as vocals, define the most pleasing combination and duration to which a human being should be exposed to and get the perfect equation! Tests should be done on a wide variety of people who think differently and the average should be taken. Did i just make sense or am i drunk?

I agree with Pnoom!  You'd simply get 'average music' that way...

Could it be that 'prog' may be (vaguely, inadequately, subjectively... lalala... etc...) defined as 'non-average music'?  Or perhaps 'exaggerated music'?  (In some ways...)  It seems to have this 'longer, faster playing, more complicated, more flamboyant, more technical/technological, more more more' thing going on.

Or... if we're going to get scientific... let's not be measuring the timbre, the structure, the tempo and all that jazz.  Let's measure the psychoactive effect of the music!  Everyone here is saying 'we know it when we hear it, but we can't define it'.  So let's stick a selection of prog fans in an MRI scanner (one at a time, naturally) and play 'em some of their favourite music, and see what's going on in their brains.  (Do we have any would-be PhD students around here?!)  Defining 'prog' or whatever other musical beast you may care to analyse, is always going to be a subjective matter, no matter what measuring stick we bring to bear, but maybe we could come up with a 'feelie rating' of some sort... hmmm... Brave New World here we come!!

Caveat: I'm no neuroscientist-cum-musicologist.  Just an opinionated girl.

Pnoom! wrote: song of copper wrote: I agree with Pnoom!  You'd simply get 'average music' that way... Except that I don't think non-prog music is average

Well, no - of course not.  Sorry for the lack of clarity, I didn't mean to damn all other music - just that 'music composed by committee' will undoubtedly be average.

stonebeard wrote: Screw marillion. they have given me nothing but happiness for too long!

All I can say is I once agreed with you about that  they were great  once


Edited by Yorkie X - June 12 2008 at 21:16

russellk wrote: Pnoom! wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ only 15 perfect albums?    I'm selective. 1. Kayo Dot - Choirs of the Eye 2. Can - Tago Mago 3. Radiohead - Kid A 4. Talking Heads - Remain in Light 5. Talk Talk - Laughing Stock 6. Can - Ege Bamyasi 7) Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation 8) Wolf Parade - Apologies to the Queen Mary 9) Magma - Mekanik Destructiw Kommandoh 10) Radiohead - OK Computer 11) Sigur Ros - Agaetis Byrjun 12) This Heat - Deceit 13) Glenn Branca - The Ascension 14) Joy Division - Closer 15) Boards of Canada - Music Has the Right to Children perfect defined as: without -weak moments -flaws -possibility for improvement in the given structure with -lots and lots of awesome -more awesome -win-ness Nice to know that someone else around here appreciates the flawless perfection that is Boards of Canada's 'Music Has the Right to Children'.

Moatilliatta wrote: There are several albums that I think of as perfect, but the concept of perfection is similar to the concept of infinity. The possibility for improvement in a structure may be something we cannot fathom, but it is there. So, perfection can exist to individuals, but a consensus of perfection defintely cannot.

Dunno about that. I think perfection is when something does what it's intended to do. Here's a stone. It's perfect in it's stone-ness. Nothing in it that is not stone. The more complex something is, however, the more likely something will be mixed in with it that works against its purpose - an imperfection.

Pretty hard to imagine 'perfect' music, but music that has the intended effect has to come close.

WinterLight wrote: Moatilliatta wrote: ...but the concept of perfection is similar to the concept of infinity. The possibility for improvement in a structure may be something we cannot fathom, but it is there. So, perfection can exist to individuals, but a consensus of perfection defintely cannot. In what sense is "perfection... similar to the concept of infinity"?  Infinity can be defined in rigorous manner, whereas perfection has no meaningful literal interpretation (as more or less established above).

Edited by Moatilliatta - June 13 2008 at 01:44

russellk wrote: Moatilliatta wrote: There are several albums that I think of as perfect, but the concept of perfection is similar to the concept of infinity. The possibility for improvement in a structure may be something we cannot fathom, but it is there. So, perfection can exist to individuals, but a consensus of perfection defintely cannot. Dunno about that. I think perfection is when something does what it's intended to do. Here's a stone. It's perfect in it's stone-ness. Nothing in it that is not stone. The more complex something is, however, the more likely something will be mixed in with it that works against its purpose - an imperfection. Pretty hard to imagine 'perfect' music, but music that has the intended effect has to come close.

Moatilliatta wrote: WinterLight wrote: Moatilliatta wrote: ...but the concept of perfection is similar to the concept of infinity. The possibility for improvement in a structure may be something we cannot fathom, but it is there. So, perfection can exist to individuals, but a consensus of perfection defintely cannot. In what sense is "perfection... similar to the concept of infinity"?  Infinity can be defined in rigorous manner, whereas perfection has no meaningful literal interpretation (as more or less established above).   Haha, you just like to debate my points, don't you? Please don't take it personally:  I mean absolutely no offense to you or anyone else here.  I just enjoy this sort of analysis (as I'm sure some others do). Infinity can be defined, but at the same time it can not actually be reached. Perfection can be defined, but it can not be reached. That was the connection. Maybe not the best, but when I think of infinity, I think of how vast and unfathomable it is. I do understand what you mean; my point, however, is that the analogy doesn't apply.  Still the mistake is common and certainly understandable.  Infinity, as an object, is a mathematical fiction (albeit a quite useful one); the concept of "infinite", on the other hand, is a defined property of certain objects called sets.  The latter possesses none of the romance that taints the former. When I think of music, I think possibilities are vast and endless. Agreed. I'm not the only one who said perfection can't be reached, why don't you ask the other guy!? Whether for good or bad, you've represented in such a way as to make it easy for me to respond.  And, in a sense, I'm replying to everyone who's made a similar claim.   I should have just said that Jesus was the only one who achieved perfection and therefore music not made by Jesus is inhernetly imperfect. Religious beliefs, man!   Not going there (see my handle).