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TheLastBaron ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 07 2009 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 206 |
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I think that bands that gain more popularity as a result of drastically changing thier sound to fit with what is popular at the time are selling out. Yet if a band keeps its unique sound and style mostly in tact but gains more fans than i tend to find that it is a matter of that band getting more exposure through different mediums and word of mouth and more people looking for something different to listen to, what drew me to prog was the desire to hear music that was more expressive instrumentally.
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" Men are not prisoners of fate, but prisoners of their own minds." - FDR
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Henry Plainview ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
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What? Of course it matters, and the change has nothing to do with it. If Phil Collins decided "I want to write really simple pop music because I lurve it" that would not be selling out no matter when he decided that. Everybody assumes he did it because of the money, and maybe he did, but we, as observers, have no way of telling the difference.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Petrovsk Mizinski ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
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Quoted because well, HP pretty much won this argument. |
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TheGazzardian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
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Just for the sake of being cantankerous, I would say that Yes probably sold out more in '96 when they did the SLO concerts with the classic lineup then they ever did with Trevor Rabin in the '80s.
Not that I am complaining at all. :D
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SgtPepper67 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 17 2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 530 |
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Exactly. In my opinion, he didn't do it for the money or popularity, but of course we don't know for sure. But what's wrong with wanting to start making different music if they just feel they want to do it? that's not selling out. |
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![]() In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
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sleeper ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 09 2005 Location: Entropia Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
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You've missed the important part of my post though, that its selling out when the change in direction is fairly quick (over one album to the next, or covering two albums, for example) and only to sell more records and therefore make more money. The reasons behind it could be external or internal, but the results are still the same and that its because the band/artist is looking to make more money/become more famoues/whatever.
I never suggested that Collins sold out in his solo career.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Evolver ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams Joined: October 22 2005 Location: The Idiocracy Status: Offline Points: 5484 |
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I've heard Phil has basically renounced his prog past. It sort of makes me think he sold out.
A good bio is http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Phil_Collins
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Henry Plainview ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
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Why would renouncing prog make him be selling out? Wouldn't that make it more likely that he didn't sell out?
Uncyclopedia is terrible and unfunny.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Equality 7-2521 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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Agreed with both points.
Why is there this artificial barrier errected by prog fans between progressive and all other forms of music?Shouldn't the fans of this genre be the accepting ones?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Henry Plainview ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
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Well, I wouldn't go that far because I still loathe Phil Collins' pop music, but I just find it difficult to conclusively say that he did it for the money. I have trouble believing somebody who was already successful as an artist would feel the need to do that.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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ExittheLemming ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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It seems that some posters (not Henry) are confusing what is implied by the term 'selling out' with say, 'compromising their artistic integrity' - in the case of the former as has already been stated, Collins had no material need to pursue pop success, but as for the latter, Phil is 'dead man walking' 'Selling out' is really about expediency (sacrifice of principles for personal gain) and if we were to find examples of this from prog, it would surely be restricted to those 2nd and 3rd division bands who didn't have the financial security afforded by the likes of ELP, Genesis, Yes etc |
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Equality 7-2521 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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How did he compromise his artistic integrity exactly?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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ExittheLemming ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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I guess you could start with the fondant and formulaic piano fuelled ballads used in 'Romantic Comedies', the stiffer than a 90 year old kitten Motown covers, the warm and cosy nostalgic big band jazz atrocities, the assimilation of cyclic beatbox funk that makes pale Russian bank clerks seem positively urban etc (the list goes on) Assuming you've heard any of Collins solo output (and I think you have) the question is at best disingenuous. REO Speedwagon for "Progressive Electronic' anyone ? |
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maribor ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: October 04 2005 Location: Slovenia Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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I can't believe what a bunch of snobs some progressive fans seem to be.
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Non mi svegliate
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ExittheLemming ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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We've seen this type of post a million times before and it's really starting to get plain vanilla tiresome. Do you think people who vote differently from you in elections or choose a brand of breakfast cereal you don't care for to be snobs ? (Nah, didn't think so, get over yerself). Without value judgements there wouldn't be either a forum or an archive about artists we deem to be progressive musicians. That's why Britney Spears/Boy Bands/Bay City Rollers/Madonna ain't on PA, it's because they ain't considered progressive, NOT because we're snobs. |
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TODDLER ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
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I agree. Love Beach, Giant for a Day, and Then There Were Three are a bit contrived by managment and record company. Can you picture some smuck in the control booth telling Ian Anderson what to write and how to write it? Or how to go about changing some grand composition to be more appealing to the mass? Could you imagine how suck egg we would feel if we heard the pieces before they were changed? Again I must say that the mere fact staring me in the face is that.....these people are not musicians. Look at what they have done to music. Think of all the great epic prog pieces or even rock songs they have toyed with. They so often have not received the blame by the mass. The mass is confused. There is no justice in this particular area. After being successful you are lucky to be in a position to tell the record company of your demands and coming to an agreement in favor of the artisitic approach of things. You are basically dealing with criminals. White collar criminals. It's not at all like running the plumbing supply business in which your father has handed down to you.
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JonnyM79 ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() Joined: November 19 2009 Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Mansun's change in style from Attack of the Grey Lantern to Six springs to mind, although AotGL is far more of a progressive work than most give it credit for. Edited by JonnyM79 - December 28 2009 at 10:52 |
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maribor ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: October 04 2005 Location: Slovenia Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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But you are snobs if you consider other music than progressive inferior. You're just as bad as the jazz and classical purists. Your comments about Phil Collins say that you don't like his music. That's fine, but that doesn't mean it is in fact inferior. That's a matter of personal opinion. I think you're the one who passes judgment on people who think (or vote) differently, not me. Except if you voted for Bush - then you're a complete idiot. |
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Non mi svegliate
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Which is more than can be said of "Little Kix" - which is the third kind of "sell out" (which we haven't mentioned yet) - one enforced by the record label.
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What?
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lazland ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13884 |
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Ever since I joined the Forum, it has struck me that there are basically two types of opinion and people on this subject - those who regard anything no prog or pop as selling out, and those who really don't care that much, and who are prepared to accept the music for what it is, be it popular or otherwise.
I fall into the latter category. I think that Face Value was an exceptional LP. Clearly not remotely prog, but equally clearly a great expression of a man's divorce and the related emptions associated with that episode in his life. I have the following two solo LPs, and I dislike them both, aside from a couple of tracks. Not because I regard them as a sellout, but because they are not my cup of tea. Each to their own I say. There is some great pop music out there. There is also a pile of rubbish, especially the Cowell produced rubbish which is basically bland and poor ripoffs of other people's material. That's what I hate. I respect all who produce their own material, no matter what the genre. It doesn't mean I have to like it, though. |
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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