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JD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2022 at 06:05
^I certainly get the etymology of the word and agree with your comparison to the swastika. These things do have a tendency to get associated with their worse meaning rather than their best. The difference between how Comrade and Camaraderie are perceived, at least in my limited experience, are stark. I see that happening with other words like Groomer. It used to be that if you said someone was a groomer you immediately thought of dogs or horses. But now...well, I think you get my point. Word association moves the needle on interpretation in today's society.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2022 at 02:26
^And, yes, I’m aware that JD has Canada as his location, but I was not meaning him when I was talking about the US. Perhaps I should have said North America, but I hope my point is understood.

I guess what we need to see, is how a Ukrainian feels about the use of the word. I might ask one or two I know, because I definitely would not want to unintentionally offend them, if I described Ukrainians as comrades the way Steve has.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2022 at 02:23
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

comrade is just SO Russian or Soviet

And yet, historically, it is not at all. We don’t have a problem with the word camaraderie, which has the same Latin root from the Iberian camarada, which means, pretty much, “mate”, and used the way “mate” is throughout the UK, Australia and NZ, etc. In Germany, kamerad was simply a term for people who shared the same interest.

It was through revolutions that comrade took on the more militaristic and socialist overtones, but again this was neither Russian nor Soviet. Beginning with the usage of citoyen/ne (citizen) in the French Revolution, to bring everyone to the same level, regardless of class or background, by the revolutions sweeping through Europe in the middle of the 19th century, comrade was being used in a similar egalitarian way, more particularly now to identify allies to a cause.

That is the way the word is viewed in most parts of the world, still, and especially among those with a trade union background, or voters for left wing parties, etc.

The idea that comrade is a Russian/soviet thing is largely down to, as is so often the case, the media. In my experience, the US views comrade as Russian/Soviet more than other Western nations. I remember when I called someone comrade while briefly living and working in the US, that their reaction was quite surprising to me. At first appearing shocked, they then appeared to decide I was making a joke, and started speaking in a mock Russian accent. I wonder if it is because the US doesn’t really have a left wing party, so much as right wing party, and a centrist party (that often appears to still be more inclined to the right wing anyway), and no strong trade unions. That and McCarthyism, etc., have led to comrade being seen as only a Russian/Soviet thing.

I have had a US friend try to argue with me that comrade is like the swastika, and that it doesn’t matter how long the swastika has been a peaceful symbol, because once it was subverted Nazis, it will forever be associated first and foremost as a Nazi symbol. And perhaps, in the US, comrade is now first and foremost regarded as a Russian/Soviet word. While in Europe (and other countries such as New Zealand, on the other side of the world, who tend towards European rather than US norms), comrade is recognised more simply as someone with whom we have shared interests, and/or are mates with.

I could, of course, be completely wrong.

I can see why some people might have thought Steve’s use of the word is odd, but I can honestly say that the thought never occurred to me until JD brought it up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 16:57
I understood the 'context' ie: Comrade in Arms, it just that comrade is just SO Russian or Soviet that attaching it to Ukraine was more of an Oxymoron on steroids to these old tired eyes.
It wasn't a slight, just an observation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 15:57
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

[EDIT] - basically, you can enjoy beer whilst helping out our Ukrainian comrades
Ok, now I know there is a familiar relationship between Ukraine and Russia, but using this term to describe Ukraine friends...that just seems wrong to me.

JD, I come from a British trade union background. The word comrade to us is to describe brothers, sisters, friends, fellow workers, people in pain, people we associate with, children who are suffering……..I could go on and on. To me, it is not a political word, but a humanitarian one. Yes, I know that might seem an oxymoron when talking about a trade union, but that is, in fact, one of the reasons I am no longer a trade unionist, and one of the reasons I disdain a lot of politics and try not to go there either here, or on my website. I am more interested in the humanity which binds us. Hopefully, that explains my use of that word. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 14:21
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

[EDIT] - basically, you can enjoy beer whilst helping out our Ukrainian comrades
Ok, now I know there is a familiar relationship between Ukraine and Russia, but using this term to describe Ukraine friends...that just seems wrong to me.


Edited by JD - April 30 2022 at 14:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 12:42
Sounds good.
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 12:00
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Very much wanted to get that gluten free Ukraine beer, my girlfriend has been looking for a good gluten free beer. Unfortunately they only ship to the UK for the time being.

I think that should change in the summer, John. I imagine it will be available on Amazon with the rest of them. 

I will, of course, post the news about Amazon when I get it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 11:50
Very much wanted to get that gluten free Ukraine beer, my girlfriend has been looking for a good gluten free beer. Unfortunately they only ship to the UK for the time being.
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 09:33
Okay, the beer news is up. I have redesigned the Beer and News Page to make navigation a bit easier. As far as the ales are concerned, you need to go to the Ale of the Week bit to discover how you can soon be enjoying class Welsh ale if you live overseas. In addition, a really worthy cause is placed on the Ukraine page - basically, you can enjoy beer whilst helping out our Ukrainian comrades.

Also, Top Ten of 2015 added.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2022 at 05:39
Great stuff, Steve. Looking forward to more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2022 at 02:32
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Yes, getting to sample some of this beer sounds like a great idea. Reading about beer is kind of a tease isn't it.

Yes, indeed it is! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2022 at 10:59
Yes, getting to sample some of this beer sounds like a great idea. Reading about beer is kind of a tease isn't it.
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2022 at 10:49
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Reviews of new Saxon and t added to Album Reviews 2022.

By the end of the week, I will have done a report on last night’s brewery talk and sampling night at the pub, with some exciting news about how friends will be able to order said beer!
Fantastic! I'm brewing a pot of coffee (to be boosted with a liquore!) to get ready for some enjoyable AM reading. Wii get back with some comments!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2022 at 04:10
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Reviews of new Saxon and t added to Album Reviews 2022.

By the end of the week, I will have done a report on last night’s brewery talk and sampling night at the pub, with some exciting news about how friends will be able to order said beer!
Fantastic! I'm brewing a pot of coffee (to be boosted with a liquore!) to get ready for some enjoyable AM reading. Wii get back with some comments!

Edited by SteveG - April 28 2022 at 04:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2022 at 03:57
Reviews of new Saxon and t added to Album Reviews 2022.

By the end of the week, I will have done a report on last night’s brewery talk and sampling night at the pub, with some exciting news about how friends will be able to order said beer!
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 12:44
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

^Then it must have been VERY good beer. LOL

Maybe so, the wine was much better Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 12:35
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

^ Otautau! What kind of business takes you to Otautau? 😄

Yea I hear ya!! LOL Forestry.....the oysters were good too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 10:00
^ Otautau! What kind of business takes you to Otautau? 😄
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 09:57
^Then it must have been VERY good beer. LOL
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