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Epignosis 
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Joined: December 30 2007
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 Posted: March 10 2010 at 19:57 |
 The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Well, Rob, it's been a long time since I listened to a Camel album (have not suffered insomnia lately), but I just never associated their music with any of the main "Canterbury" artists - I don't recall too much of a jazzy feel or any sort of free-form/experimental approach which I normally attach to anyone I would call "Canterbury".
I thought the Snow Goose was fairly in the Symphonic vein, but I'm no expert. Although someone earlier posted that the debut Camel was closer to Canterbury - can't comment, I've not heard that album.
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lol @ insomnia
Well, Pat, this is where I have trouble too. Camel did symphonic things (like most of The Snow Goose), but I was listening to Caravan and thinking, "gosh, this is so similar to Camel."
Also, I don't really think Genesis is a symphonic prog band either, but I don't want my nads cut off. 
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If Genesis are not symphonic, neither is Kansas  |
Genesis are very similar to Jethro Tull.
Kansas deserves a subgenre of their own.
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To Jethro Tull? I've never heard that before. Which albums are you thinking of, Nursery Cryme, Trespass and Foxtrot?
To continue expressing our feelings about certain Prog bands, I've always stand that Jethro Tull were not really conceived as a Prog band, and I don't think they intended to be one. However, that doesn't take that their Prog albums, Thick as a Brick, Minstrel and A Passion Play are favorites of mine 
Though, we're getting off-topic  |
You're absolutely right. But look at it this way: Suppose you have a triangle. At the three points are these bands: Yes, Kansas, and Jethro Tull.
To which of these three bands is Genesis closer?
I'd say Jethro Tull, because much of pre-Lamb Genesis is quite acoustic and quite similar to Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play.
And none of those bands were "conceived" as prog bands (although Kansas's debut is amazing prog because Livgren is amazing as a songwriter ).
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Padraic
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 19:58 |
The Quiet One wrote:
[
Listen to the ending of Lunar Sea or the middle part of Song within a Song, that should remind you of Bundles immediately.
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It won't, because I haven't heard Bundles. I don't think I ever made it to the ending of Lunar Sea. 
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 19:58 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Both have very notable jazz rock influences, even more so than the symphonic ones.
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I have listened to the first five Camel albums a few years ago so may memory might play me games, but I never felt the jazzy component of their sound to be more than a "flavour" added to the base. And actually the jazziest thing I can remember from those albums is the quirky sound and playfulness of the synth in The Snow Goose. 
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It's indeed a flavour, since it is mainly Peter Bardens adding it alone, but what a big and notable flavour it is! It's such a unique essence of Camel's classic albums which make it possible to easy distinguish from Yes, Genesis and ELP.
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 19:59 |
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Well, Rob, it's been a long time since I listened to a Camel album (have not suffered insomnia lately), but I just never associated their music with any of the main "Canterbury" artists - I don't recall too much of a jazzy feel or any sort of free-form/experimental approach which I normally attach to anyone I would call "Canterbury".
I thought the Snow Goose was fairly in the Symphonic vein, but I'm no expert. Although someone earlier posted that the debut Camel was closer to Canterbury - can't comment, I've not heard that album.
|
lol @ insomnia
Well, Pat, this is where I have trouble too. Camel did symphonic things (like most of The Snow Goose), but I was listening to Caravan and thinking, "gosh, this is so similar to Camel."
Also, I don't really think Genesis is a symphonic prog band either, but I don't want my nads cut off.
|
If Genesis are not symphonic, neither is Kansas |
Genesis are very similar to Jethro Tull.
Kansas deserves a subgenre of their own.
|
To Jethro Tull? I've never heard that before. Which albums are you thinking of, Nursery Cryme, Trespass and Foxtrot?
To continue expressing our feelings about certain Prog bands, I've always stand that Jethro Tull were not really conceived as a Prog band, and I don't think they intended to be one. However, that doesn't take that their Prog albums, Thick as a Brick, Minstrel and A Passion Play are favorites of mine
Though, we're getting off-topic |
You're absolutely right. But look at it this way: Suppose you have a triangle. At the three points are these bands: Yes, Kansas, and Jethro Tull.
To which of these three bands is Genesis closer?
I'd say Jethro Tull, because much of pre-Lamb Genesis is quite acoustic and quite similar to Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play.
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I agree.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:00 |
A Person wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Well, Rob, it's been a long time since I listened to a Camel album (have not suffered insomnia lately), but I just never associated their music with any of the main "Canterbury" artists - I don't recall too much of a jazzy feel or any sort of free-form/experimental approach which I normally attach to anyone I would call "Canterbury".
I thought the Snow Goose was fairly in the Symphonic vein, but I'm no expert. Although someone earlier posted that the debut Camel was closer to Canterbury - can't comment, I've not heard that album.
|
lol @ insomnia
Well, Pat, this is where I have trouble too. Camel did symphonic things (like most of The Snow Goose), but I was listening to Caravan and thinking, "gosh, this is so similar to Camel."
Also, I don't really think Genesis is a symphonic prog band either, but I don't want my nads cut off.
|
If Genesis are not symphonic, neither is Kansas |
Genesis are very similar to Jethro Tull.
Kansas deserves a subgenre of their own.
|
To Jethro Tull? I've never heard that before. Which albums are you thinking of, Nursery Cryme, Trespass and Foxtrot?
To continue expressing our feelings about certain Prog bands, I've always stand that Jethro Tull were not really conceived as a Prog band, and I don't think they intended to be one. However, that doesn't take that their Prog albums, Thick as a Brick, Minstrel and A Passion Play are favorites of mine
Though, we're getting off-topic |
You're absolutely right. But look at it this way: Suppose you have a triangle. At the three points are these bands: Yes, Kansas, and Jethro Tull.
To which of these three bands is Genesis closer?
I'd say Jethro Tull, because much of pre-Lamb Genesis is quite acoustic and quite similar to Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play.
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I agree.
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Me too, lol.
Wouldn't say similar to A Passion Play, though
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:02 |
Padraic wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
[
Listen to the ending of Lunar Sea or the middle part of Song within a Song, that should remind you of Bundles immediately.
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It won't, because I haven't heard Bundles.
I don't think I ever made it to the ending of Lunar Sea.
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I don't find it funny, it's undoubtly the best instrumental ever conceived by a band. 
Just kidding. Don't you have Floating World Live by the Softs? Well, I suppose not, you'd probably have told me so... Well, my point is that Moonmadness and most certainly Rain Dances have their fair amount of jazz rock leanings added to the music.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32580
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:03 |
The Quiet One wrote:
A Person wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Well, Rob, it's been a long time since I listened to a Camel album (have not suffered insomnia lately), but I just never associated their music with any of the main "Canterbury" artists - I don't recall too much of a jazzy feel or any sort of free-form/experimental approach which I normally attach to anyone I would call "Canterbury".
I thought the Snow Goose was fairly in the Symphonic vein, but I'm no expert. Although someone earlier posted that the debut Camel was closer to Canterbury - can't comment, I've not heard that album.
|
lol @ insomnia
Well, Pat, this is where I have trouble too. Camel did symphonic things (like most of The Snow Goose), but I was listening to Caravan and thinking, "gosh, this is so similar to Camel."
Also, I don't really think Genesis is a symphonic prog band either, but I don't want my nads cut off.
|
If Genesis are not symphonic, neither is Kansas |
Genesis are very similar to Jethro Tull.
Kansas deserves a subgenre of their own.
|
To Jethro Tull? I've never heard that before. Which albums are you thinking of, Nursery Cryme, Trespass and Foxtrot?
To continue expressing our feelings about certain Prog bands, I've always stand that Jethro Tull were not really conceived as a Prog band, and I don't think they intended to be one. However, that doesn't take that their Prog albums, Thick as a Brick, Minstrel and A Passion Play are favorites of mine
Though, we're getting off-topic |
You're absolutely right. But look at it this way: Suppose you have a triangle. At the three points are these bands: Yes, Kansas, and Jethro Tull.
To which of these three bands is Genesis closer?
I'd say Jethro Tull, because much of pre-Lamb Genesis is quite acoustic and quite similar to Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play.
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I agree.
|
Me too, lol.
Wouldn't say similar to A Passion Play, though |
Awesome.
Let's get Ivan to move Genesis to prog folk.
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:04 |
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
A Person wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Well, Rob, it's been a long time since I listened to a Camel album (have not suffered insomnia lately), but I just never associated their music with any of the main "Canterbury" artists - I don't recall too much of a jazzy feel or any sort of free-form/experimental approach which I normally attach to anyone I would call "Canterbury".
I thought the Snow Goose was fairly in the Symphonic vein, but I'm no expert. Although someone earlier posted that the debut Camel was closer to Canterbury - can't comment, I've not heard that album.
|
lol @ insomnia
Well, Pat, this is where I have trouble too. Camel did symphonic things (like most of The Snow Goose), but I was listening to Caravan and thinking, "gosh, this is so similar to Camel."
Also, I don't really think Genesis is a symphonic prog band either, but I don't want my nads cut off.
|
If Genesis are not symphonic, neither is Kansas |
Genesis are very similar to Jethro Tull.
Kansas deserves a subgenre of their own.
|
To Jethro Tull? I've never heard that before. Which albums are you thinking of, Nursery Cryme, Trespass and Foxtrot?
To continue expressing our feelings about certain Prog bands, I've always stand that Jethro Tull were not really conceived as a Prog band, and I don't think they intended to be one. However, that doesn't take that their Prog albums, Thick as a Brick, Minstrel and A Passion Play are favorites of mine
Though, we're getting off-topic |
You're absolutely right. But look at it this way: Suppose you have a triangle. At the three points are these bands: Yes, Kansas, and Jethro Tull.
To which of these three bands is Genesis closer?
I'd say Jethro Tull, because much of pre-Lamb Genesis is quite acoustic and quite similar to Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play.
|
I agree.
|
Me too, lol.
Wouldn't say similar to A Passion Play, though |
Awesome.
Let's get Ivan to move Genesis to prog folk.
|
If someone tried that there would be blood.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
|
Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:04 |
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
A Person wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Well, Rob, it's been a long time since I listened to a Camel album (have not suffered insomnia lately), but I just never associated their music with any of the main "Canterbury" artists - I don't recall too much of a jazzy feel or any sort of free-form/experimental approach which I normally attach to anyone I would call "Canterbury".
I thought the Snow Goose was fairly in the Symphonic vein, but I'm no expert. Although someone earlier posted that the debut Camel was closer to Canterbury - can't comment, I've not heard that album.
|
lol @ insomnia
Well, Pat, this is where I have trouble too. Camel did symphonic things (like most of The Snow Goose), but I was listening to Caravan and thinking, "gosh, this is so similar to Camel."
Also, I don't really think Genesis is a symphonic prog band either, but I don't want my nads cut off.
|
If Genesis are not symphonic, neither is Kansas |
Genesis are very similar to Jethro Tull.
Kansas deserves a subgenre of their own.
|
To Jethro Tull? I've never heard that before. Which albums are you thinking of, Nursery Cryme, Trespass and Foxtrot?
To continue expressing our feelings about certain Prog bands, I've always stand that Jethro Tull were not really conceived as a Prog band, and I don't think they intended to be one. However, that doesn't take that their Prog albums, Thick as a Brick, Minstrel and A Passion Play are favorites of mine
Though, we're getting off-topic |
You're absolutely right. But look at it this way: Suppose you have a triangle. At the three points are these bands: Yes, Kansas, and Jethro Tull.
To which of these three bands is Genesis closer?
I'd say Jethro Tull, because much of pre-Lamb Genesis is quite acoustic and quite similar to Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play.
|
I agree.
|
Me too, lol.
Wouldn't say similar to A Passion Play, though |
Awesome.
Let's get Ivan to move Genesis to prog folk.
|
 There still is The Lamb, Trick of the Tail and W&W, those are easily Symphonic Prog albums, right? I would also include Selling England by the Pound, haha.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
|
Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:05 |
A Person wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
A Person wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Well, Rob, it's been a long time since I listened to a Camel album (have not suffered insomnia lately), but I just never associated their music with any of the main "Canterbury" artists - I don't recall too much of a jazzy feel or any sort of free-form/experimental approach which I normally attach to anyone I would call "Canterbury".
I thought the Snow Goose was fairly in the Symphonic vein, but I'm no expert. Although someone earlier posted that the debut Camel was closer to Canterbury - can't comment, I've not heard that album.
|
lol @ insomnia
Well, Pat, this is where I have trouble too. Camel did symphonic things (like most of The Snow Goose), but I was listening to Caravan and thinking, "gosh, this is so similar to Camel."
Also, I don't really think Genesis is a symphonic prog band either, but I don't want my nads cut off.
|
If Genesis are not symphonic, neither is Kansas |
Genesis are very similar to Jethro Tull.
Kansas deserves a subgenre of their own.
|
To Jethro Tull? I've never heard that before. Which albums are you thinking of, Nursery Cryme, Trespass and Foxtrot?
To continue expressing our feelings about certain Prog bands, I've always stand that Jethro Tull were not really conceived as a Prog band, and I don't think they intended to be one. However, that doesn't take that their Prog albums, Thick as a Brick, Minstrel and A Passion Play are favorites of mine
Though, we're getting off-topic |
You're absolutely right. But look at it this way: Suppose you have a triangle. At the three points are these bands: Yes, Kansas, and Jethro Tull.
To which of these three bands is Genesis closer?
I'd say Jethro Tull, because much of pre-Lamb Genesis is quite acoustic and quite similar to Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play.
|
I agree.
|
Me too, lol.
Wouldn't say similar to A Passion Play, though |
Awesome.
Let's get Ivan to move Genesis to prog folk.
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If someone tried that there would be blood.
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on the rooftops?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32580
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:05 |
You two are killing me.
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ProgressiveAttic
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 05 2008
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 1243
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:08 |
The Quiet One wrote:
A Person wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
A Person wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Well, Rob, it's been a long time since I listened to a Camel album (have not suffered insomnia lately), but I just never associated their music with any of the main "Canterbury" artists - I don't recall too much of a jazzy feel or any sort of free-form/experimental approach which I normally attach to anyone I would call "Canterbury".I thought the Snow Goose was fairly in the Symphonic vein, but I'm no expert. Although someone earlier posted that the debut Camel was closer to Canterbury - can't comment, I've not heard that album. |
lol @ insomniaWell, Pat, this is where I have trouble too. Camel did symphonic things (like most of The Snow Goose), but I was listening to Caravan and thinking, "gosh, this is so similar to Camel."Also, I don't really think Genesis is a symphonic prog band either, but I don't want my nads cut off. |
If Genesis are not symphonic, neither is Kansas |
Genesis are very similar to Jethro Tull.Kansas deserves a subgenre of their own. |
To Jethro Tull? I've never heard that before. Which albums are you thinking of, Nursery Cryme, Trespass and Foxtrot?
To continue expressing our feelings about certain Prog bands, I've always stand that Jethro Tull were not really conceived as a Prog band, and I don't think they intended to be one. However, that doesn't take that their Prog albums, Thick as a Brick, Minstrel and A Passion Play are favorites of mine
Though, we're getting off-topic |
You're absolutely right. But look at it this way: Suppose you have a triangle. At the three points are these bands: Yes, Kansas, and Jethro Tull.To which of these three bands is Genesis closer? I'd say Jethro Tull, because much of pre-Lamb Genesis is quite acoustic and quite similar to Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play. |
I agree. |
Me too, lol.
Wouldn't say similar to A Passion Play, though |
Awesome.Let's get Ivan to move Genesis to prog folk. |
If someone tried that there would be blood. |
on the rooftops? |
Now that we are on that we could also move ELP to Avant/RIO (they were very experimental), Magma to Canterbury (they have jazzy keyboards) and Pink Floyd to symphonic!
and now we are good!
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Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com) 
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A Person
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Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:09 |
Genesis is a symph prog band because they mix folk and symph rock, and Camel is symph prog because they mix jazz and symph prog.
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Padraic
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Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:19 |
The Quiet One wrote:
Padraic wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
[
Listen to the ending of Lunar Sea or the middle part of Song within a Song, that should remind you of Bundles immediately.
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It won't, because I haven't heard Bundles.
I don't think I ever made it to the ending of Lunar Sea.
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I don't find it funny, it's undoubtly the best instrumental ever conceived by a band.
Just kidding. Don't you have Floating World Live by the Softs?
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I do - thought you meant the album, not the track - I've got some homework to do 
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 20:21 |
The Quiet One wrote:
Well, my point is that Moonmadness and most certainly Rain Dances have their fair amount of jazz rock leanings added to the music. |
And this after our National Health discussion.... Jeez, Pablo, what doesn't sound like jazz-rock to you? Next thing you'll tell me about Holdsworth-esque licks in Selena Gomez's latest single.
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progressive
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 366
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Posted: March 10 2010 at 22:13 |
OT:
Of course camel freely falls to canterbury scene.
Of course Sinclair is not the reason, it's the music (maybe made by Sinclair.....)
Anyway, I can't clearly say where to categorize Camel. Symphonic prog is OK to me, maybe because the categorization on this site doesn't help me much, and for other people... I'm not sure if it really matters. Maybe Camel should go to Eclectic prog, lol.
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► rateyourmusic.com/~Fastro 2672 ratings ▲ last.fm/user/Fastro 5556 artists ▲ www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=4933 266◄
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1601
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Posted: March 11 2010 at 11:02 |
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I think they sound pretty damn Canterbury. The part in the song Six Ate off their first album just after 2:00 where it goes from 6/8 to 4/4....that 4/4 riff sounds like the epitome of Canterbury sound
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Alberto Muņoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: March 11 2010 at 13:36 |
I think Camel was the less canterbury sound of al the scene.
And agree with Raff, the first two albums are a mix of DP and Santana, with an distict english sound.
The Canterbury connection is only with the persons. and except Richard Sinclair, none of the others founding members are notable for his canterbury approach.
Edited by Alberto Muņoz - March 11 2010 at 13:46
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Alberto Muņoz
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Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: March 11 2010 at 13:40 |
Interesting:
Richard Sinclair
"People say, what is the Canterbury scene? I think you have to come to Canterbury and see it and hear it ! I think Kent has got a particular sound. We've sung it in our schools here, we were all at school in this sort of area. I was part of the Church of England choir : up to the age of sixteen I was singing tonalities that are very English. Over the last three or four hundred years, and even earlier than that, some of the tonalities go back. So they are here, and they are a mixture of European things too. The history is very much that. A very historical centre of activity is Canterbury for the last hundred years. So it's quite an important stepping stone of whatever this thousand years have covered. I think it's not to be mocked because it's a centre of communication here and it's a meeting point - many nations come here to visit the cathedral, so you get a very unique situation happening".
"A lot goes on here, it's quite cosmopolitan, Canterbury, to a degree... But that's because of the tourists, not from the people who actually live here : they are very conservative, not cosmopolitan at all, not particularly worldly, I don't think. The music happens outside, gets written here and taken out. This is the Canterbury scene for me. It doesn't really exist here, but it forms here. Musicians, friends join together and play music together, and then they head off around Europe and play their music and get noted for this type of sound".
taken from: http://calyx.perso.neuf.fr/index/whatis.html
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Alberto Muņoz
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Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: March 11 2010 at 13:41 |
http://www.macgraphic.co.jp/ich/
Where's Camel??
Edited by Alberto Muņoz - March 11 2010 at 13:42
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Camel Canterbury?