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The T 
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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 Posted: April 27 2008 at 20:35 |
 Lindsay Lohan wrote:
Pafnutij wrote:
No, I dont think you can be power metal and prog simultaneously.
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According to this site...power metal+keyboard solos=prog metal  |
I wouldn't trust Lindsay Lohan for her knowledge on metal... 
You could also say, Lindsay, that "according to this site, Genesis made after 1980= neo prog"...
And that would be as insulting as what you said about the bands in progressive metal.
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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Posted: April 27 2008 at 20:32 |
Stratovarius has some prog elements, but not really that much.. the structures of songs are rather typical, the technique is good but it's not the most important element (like in technical metal bands) and what we have is good, melodic power metal with keyboards and long songs. I love the band but my vote would be a resonant NO.
Anyone who says Stratovarius sounds just like Symphony X obviously hasn't heard much Symphony X, and that is a FACT, not an opinion. Opinion is "I like it, you don't". But you can't say, for example, that The Beatles sound just like The Rolling Stones and that is "your opinion" that it is that way... This is no matter of opinions.... Stratovarius doesn't sound at all like Symphony X, a band that plays true and authentic progressive power metal. As does Adagio and Pagan's Mind (which at times borders in classical progressive metal a la DT).
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 27 2008 at 20:26 |
akin wrote:
Add all the bands mentioned in this topic. Evertything is prog-metal or prog-metal-related or proto-prog-metal. |
Seeing the "big" body of metal that you have reviewed, it's quite obvious it's not your favorite genre, and it's quite obvious from this wise post you made you actually see it with contempt. Save that great peace of wisdom for yourself please. We can't take so much knowledge in a single sentence.
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DJPuffyLemon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 18 2008
Location: L
Status: Offline
Points: 520
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Posted: April 27 2008 at 19:42 |
Avantgardehead wrote:
Prog moments do not a prog band make. If we were to include Metallica for "prog moments", then I have a myriad of bands with similar prog moments that would make much of the population cringe!
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like radiohead!
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
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Posted: April 25 2008 at 10:06 |
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Add all the bands mentioned in this topic. Evertything is prog-metal or prog-metal-related or proto-prog-metal.
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Avantgardehead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 15:13 |
Prog moments do not a prog band make. If we were to include Metallica for "prog moments", then I have a myriad of bands with similar prog moments that would make much of the population cringe!
Edited by Avantgardehead - April 14 2008 at 15:14
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 11:41 |
Thanks for the responses guys. 
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bluesynight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 103
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 10:44 |
Ok ... you say that SyX compositions aren't more sophisticated than Stratovarius ... I say the contrary. Let's leave it at that.
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its not what i said, im a big fan of SX. they defiantly much more sophisticated then satverius. i just saying that in a way the idea is the same, just worst execution....its power metal with allot of classical influences. as for metallica... "and justice for all" had some interesting drumming, but prog? no. "master of papets".. you need to be more specific, becouse i dont see anything special(beside the fact that its a great thrash album). ps
im not a satverius fan, but i do think that they deserve to be here.
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The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet.
(Oliver Herford)
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 08:45 |
bluesynight wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ the depth of the compositions makes Symphony X more prog, among other... criteria.
I say that we maintain the strict police regarding metal based prog related bands.
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symph x is not more deep, its just more technically complicated. and didnt you told me that playing ability got nothing to do with being prog?
by this site policy, startocvarius is considered as Modern Progressive Power Metal (American Style).
metallica?!? metallica dont have any prog elements, its as thrash as it can get! they define thrash.
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Master of Puppets and And Justice for All contain many prog elements.I consider them almost "proto prog metal".Same with Iron Maiden.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
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Points: 21883
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 08:33 |
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bluesynight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 103
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 06:49 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ the depth of the compositions makes Symphony X more prog, among other... criteria.
I say that we maintain the strict police regarding metal based prog related bands.
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symph x is not more deep, its just more technically complicated. and didnt you told me that playing ability got nothing to do with being prog? by this site policy, startocvarius is considered as Modern Progressive Power Metal (American Style).
metallica?!? metallica dont have any prog elements, its as thrash as it can get! they define thrash.
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The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet.
(Oliver Herford)
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21883
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 05:57 |
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^ the depth of the compositions makes Symphony X more prog, among other criteria.
I am sympathetic towards including them as Prog Related ... however, this would indeed mean that we would have to include many more bands, also for example Metallica. Since this is probably not going to happen, I say that we maintain the strict police regarding metal based prog related bands.
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bluesynight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 103
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 05:18 |
fandango wrote:
having a 'classical influence' just isn't enough, and there is a raft of difference between Symph X and Strato in style...
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the only difference is the playing ability, symp x have much superior players, but it doesn't make startovarius less prog.
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The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet.
(Oliver Herford)
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JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
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Points: 10063
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 04:39 |
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Stratovarius are one of the first power metal bands I got into and I used to think they are prog metal. Not anymore. Infinite is my favorite album from them.
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20927
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 04:39 |
bluesynight wrote:
you cant deny they classical influence, and this door got opened in the second that symp x were added.
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I have to be honest, I don't usually bother getting involved in these types of conversations on this site, as they tend to quickly become circular and ultimately pointless...but surely having a 'classical influence' just isn't enough, and there is a raft of difference between Symph X and Strato in style...an average Strato album has one or two tracks out of the 10 which may be considered more expansive in terms of structure, length and intracacy of concept, but then so do Vision Divine and a load of others; its become part of the Power metal mantle...
but in terms of time and tempo changes, and clear Progressive influence, they just don't come close to S X...not by a long way, and therefore shouldn't be added... 
Edited by fandango - April 14 2008 at 04:41
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 04:26 |
Yes, Stratavarious are higly skilled and have some prog elements in their songs, I won't deny that.
A lot of power metal bands have prog elements in their music, but they aren't prog, and niether is Stratovarius IMO and I'm sure a lot of other people yet to come across this thread, will probably agree they aren't prog.
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bluesynight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 103
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Posted: April 14 2008 at 03:24 |
fandango wrote:
^^my feeling is if you open the door to Stratovarius, you'll be opening the door to a whole host of Symphonic Power metal bands like Sonata Arctica, Vision Divine, Circle II Circle and so on...its difficult to see where it would end....
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you cant deny they classical influence, and this door got opened in the second that symp x were added.
Modern Progressive Power Metal (American Style)
In
a way these bands revived the music which had sparked the Progressive
Metal movement in the 1980s. In the meantime the musical environment
had changed a lot, for example neo-classical elements had been made
popular by one Yngwie J. Malmsteen. This was influential for most
Progressive Metal bands which were rooted in power metal.
The
following bands can largely be attributed to American Power Metal,
although some are borderline to the Eclectic/Mainstream Progressive
Metal bands.
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by this site policy's, they considered as prog!!!
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The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet.
(Oliver Herford)
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 8096
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Posted: April 13 2008 at 17:29 |
Oh no, for God's sake!
Otherwise let's include everyone who ever pulled the strings.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20927
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Posted: April 13 2008 at 16:47 |
^^my feeling is if you open the door to Stratovarius, you'll be opening the door to a whole host of Symphonic Power metal bands like Sonata Arctica, Vision Divine, Circle II Circle and so on...its difficult to see where it would end....
...I think there is a general consensus of oppinion that Masterplan should never have been included...
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: April 13 2008 at 15:14 |
Thought I'd resurrect this one with my members (only) hat on.
I'm sure the prog metal team will be aware of Statovarius. What are your (and other members) views on them being listed on the site, either as prog metal, or perhaps as prog related?
It seems to me that much of what they do has strong prog connections, both in terms of individual tracks, and the way they put their albums together.
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Stratovarius
