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The Strange Omissions of the Archives
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65778 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 19:29
Psych absolutely laid the groundwork if not the rough blueprint for Prog, but inclusions are usually psych artists that had some important impact on what became known as prog rock, i.e. Jefferson Airplane.   Whereas the Dead, Big Brother, and Steppenwolf not so much.   I may think the Dead are a progressive rock band (in fact I do, and have seriously considered as a SC submitting them for Proto or -Related), but the marked influence Airplane and Giles,Giles&Fripp and Hendrix and Spirit had on prog is more evident.

But there is definitely some room for a few more artists in that realm.
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Anyway, as far as omissions go there are probably plenty. You can't think of everything. As good as this site is at being completionists there are bound to be bands who slip through the cracks so to speak. For example I recently noticed the progressive electronic duo Emerald Web aren't on here. Also, I noticed that Mike Batt(who would probably fit under crossover prog)isn't on here either. 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 30 2019 at 19:36
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

this is of course a personal opinion, but there are a lot of strange omissions in the archives. I know many will disagree; please feel free to add your 5 cents' worth.

psychedelic rock is arguably one of the roots of progressive rock, so I would expect to have the foremost bands of that genre in here. Jefferson Airplane can indeed be found, but other important artists are strangely missing. let me list some:

The Grateful Dead. I have seen derogatory comments about The Grateful Dead in here like "they were just a jam band", to which I would say "so what? many short-lived Krautrock bands were nothing else". anyway, just one listen to the amazing "Live/Dead" album from 1969 should be enough to blow that opinion to smithereens.

The 13th Floor Elevators. why the first two albums of this amazing band are not celebrated as forerunners of progressive rock on this site is completely beyond me.

Steppenwolf. one of my absolute favorite bands that started out in the 60s and definitely forerunners of prog rock, with "Born to be Wild" and "The Pusher" being two songs from one of the most famous cult movies ever, "Easy Rider".

Big Brother and the Holding Company. another band that does not get the credit it deserves on this site. featuring one of the most prominent members of the "Club 27" on their first two albums (Janis Joplin) that can rightly be named cornerstones of psychedelic rock.

again, this is just my opinion, but since I am a trained historian I think the omission of some of the historic roots of prog rock is a bit weird
If we're going to psychedelia, it would seem that Country Joe & The Fish should also be an addition....Assuredly one of the most psychedelic of them all....I am in absolute agreement that psych is one of the progenitors of prog, having witnessed it metamorphose in action (and all without LSD on my part  Wink)


That's not how it happened. You and I have been through this a million times. WinkMaybe for some bands but not as distinct genres. I actually can't think of many psych bands who turned into prog but I suppose there were some. Maybe Pink Floyd.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 30 2019 at 19:16
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Originally posted by tempest_77 tempest_77 wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

WHERES KING GIZZARD


They've been cleared for addition for 2.5 months now, we're just waiting for them to be added.
How do you discover whether a suggested artist has been “cleared”?
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Originally posted by admireArt admireArt wrote:

TUXEDOMOON, The Furure Sound of London, Carbon Based Lifeforms, Alva Noto
Tuxedomoon +1
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TUXEDOMOON, The Furure Sound of London, Carbon Based Lifeforms, Alva Noto
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Points: 1676 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tempest_77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 16:56
I would add to the list of psychedelic bands Strawberry Alarm Clock. They were sort of a one-hit wonder in terms of mainstream success with their single "Incense and Peppermints", but they have some very interesting psychedelic prog type stuff on some of their albums, with a couple of extended form songs like "The World's On Fire" and "Curse of the Witches".
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Points: 1676 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tempest_77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 16:53
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

WHERES KING GIZZARD

They've been cleared for addition for 2.5 months now, we're just waiting for them to be added.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I would like some of the English punk bands to be included especially The Stranglers. They were actually very popular with prog fans (as were The Tubes) which must say something.

I totally agree about The Stranglers. they never were a punk band, they were just marketed as one. but their music has nothing to do with punk whatever. hell, they even have real polyphony in some of their songs, which is something only very few prog bands were capable of


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Points: 13481 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 16:12
Yes, I think you're right, there are some great bands that are not included, and some that I wonder How did they got into PA? I guess it has a lot to do with the personal taste of some people in charge. 
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


If I could remove one band from PA it would be Queen. I was totally against their inclusion in the first place and still feel it is very misleading to include them just for Queen II which barely has anything to do with prog. Don't get me wrong though they were a fantastic band and one of the very best of the seventies just not a prog band.


Sorry. When I own the site they are going straight into crossover in the data sector where Tori Amos used to be.

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Points: 30083 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:40
The Tubes debut album is a prog album but I know they have been discussed to death for inclusion and always refused. Just too much fun to be a prog band.

I would like some of the English punk bands to be included especially The Stranglers. They were actually very popular with prog fans (as were The Tubes) which must say something.

Always been very fond of Al Stewart but not for Prog folk but rather Crossover.

If I could remove one band from PA it would be Queen. I was totally against their inclusion in the first place and still feel it is very misleading to include them just for Queen II which barely has anything to do with prog. Don't get me wrong though they were a fantastic band and one of the very best of the seventies just not a prog band.

Didn't even realise that XTC were not included ( they should be I would have thought). I only have English Settlement but the song about roundabouts is very amusing. I wonder if anyone not from Swindon ( my home town) actually 'gets' that song!
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Points: 20696 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:37
It's that old discussion..again. What is and isn't 'real prog rock'.
And it will go one for another 7.5 years or 75 depending on the life of the forum.
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Points: 8632 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:33
I think we are getting into the territory of "proto-prog-related" here. There has to be a cutoff point somewhere.

If we really need to go that deep we should be stepping toward the influences that came from places other than the rock/pop paradigm. Someone I always thought played a huge role in pushing boundaries is Raymond Scott. From creating a truly progressive sound with his quintet in the 30's and 40's to his electronics research with Bob Moog. 






^And if nothing else, based on the album cover you now know a babies head can be used for sound compression


Edited by Tapfret - July 30 2019 at 13:34

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Points: 11612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:22
Not that anyone really cares, but I pretty much agree with all of the suggestions listed on this thread so far. For example, I am a huge Phish phan, but I can't understand how they can be on this site (along with Umphrey's McGee), but not The Grateful Dead (or Widespread Panic for that matter [not to mention String Cheese Incident {I could continue but I ran out of parentheses options}]).  Anyway, I try not to complain......

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Originally posted by mickcoxinha mickcoxinha wrote:

Velvet Underground certainly has the merits, but for the categories they are eligible, they don't need merits, they need to be the fave band of a VIP.

f**king A man... Clap

part of the dirty laundry ..and there is a lot of it this site has that few know.  I've seen many a band rejected for .. not being liked and god damnit man.. for someone like me who listened to more pure grade sh*t that was called prog that most of you all put together ....and brought it into the database on its merits musically.. rather than the quality of simply if I like it.. 

that really really burned my ass... and probably was one of the main points of conflict.. and there were more than a few.. with that cabal that made those decisions.
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Points: 18025 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:21
I say add everyone, then discuss who should be eliminated. 

Start with the Beatles, remove them please thank you!
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

The Velvet Underground can be credited with the invention of Art Rock and therefore should be added to the list of Strange Omissions, on a high ranking.

anyone who can come up with a song like "The Gift" as Velvet Underground did on their 2nd album should be considered progressive. that sad story of poor Waldo is extremely weird and wicked
 

Surely. More than 50 years after its release it still stands as one of the weirdest stories in the histry of prog.
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Points: 24439 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:09
Originally posted by mickcoxinha mickcoxinha wrote:

Velvet Underground certainly has the merits, but for the categories they are eligible, they don't need merits, they need to be the fave band of a VIP.


This post is exactly why it was never a good idea to have Proto-Prog, and especially Prog-Related, as categories. Too many unpleasant episodes were triggered by their existence, and even now that the forum is a much more civilized place we need to put up with such unfair allegations.
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Points: 43 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickcoxinha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2019 at 12:54
Velvet Underground certainly has the merits, but for the categories they are eligible, they don't need merits, they need to be the fave band of a VIP.
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