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jesperz 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 12 2006
Location: Singapore
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Points: 233
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 Topic: Is that Possible? Progressive Punk RocK?
Posted: March 27 2006 at 22:15 |
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Is there a possibility of making progressive rock having a sub genre such as punk rock?
As Punk rock elements is almost the Yin Yang(opposite) of Prog elements...
Anybody?
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<<Dark side of Z' Drummination>>
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Zitro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 1321
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 22:18 |
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Mars Volta (althrough its more hardcore and psychedelia than punk)
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stan the man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 504
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 22:18 |
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I cant imagine progressive punk. I dont know how two such polar opposites can be united. It sounds interesting though.
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true as a lobster in a pteredaktyl's underpants.
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
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Points: 28427
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 22:22 |
NO! They just can't coexist. They have EVERYTHING opposite, not just music, but ideology of how to make that music. Punk was created to rebel against "smartass' prog by wimpy teens, it's all about speed and simplicity, if it's beyond three chords-three minutes, it's not true punk anymore. There can be prog hip hop or prog death metal, put prog and punk just don't go together. So-called "prog punk" bands like Coheed And Cambria and The Mars Volta are not accepted by real punks as punk bands. They may have some punk elements, but it's prog already(In TMV's case at least  ) TMV would make Johnny Rotten puke.
Edited by The Miracle
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Cygnus X-2
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 22:26 |
 The Miracle wrote:
NO!
...TMV would make Johnny Rotten puke.
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You do know that one of Johnny Rotten's favorite bands was Van Der Graaf Generator?
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
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Points: 28427
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 22:29 |
Cygnus X-2 wrote:
The Miracle wrote:
NO!
...TMV would make Johnny Rotten puke.
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You do know that one of Johnny Rotten's favorite bands was Van Der Graaf Generator? |
No. Then he's a f**king poser  Saying he hates prog and wearing an "I hate PF" shirt... Ok, TMV would make The Exploited puke.
Edited by The Miracle
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zappaholic
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Joined: March 24 2006
Location: flyover country
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Points: 2822
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 22:39 |
neurosis might qualify - they have their roots in punk.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Zac M
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 22:52 |
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They're not total opposites, and there are plenty of GOOD punk groups who can be considered art-punk.
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: June 20 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 1485
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 23:29 |
Zac M wrote:
They're not total opposites, and there are plenty of GOOD
punk groups who can be considered art-punk.
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Absolutely (thrice comes to mind.)
and in the Mars Volta's case, they are an extreme case of a progressive punk
band. Their roots are in punk and that is obvious.
and to the Miracle: tooonsss of punk fans love the mars volta, I know
because that's a major reason I didnt listen to them until finally I listened to
one of my friends (big punk fan) made me listen to them.
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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Witchwoodhermit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 871
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 23:32 |
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MC5 are often concidered as progressive (in a punk sense). Their offical debut was in 1969. Their harsh, blistering, no holds barred approach to rock was well beyond their years. MC5 didn't care about the rules when they played, they just did it! As loud and raw as they seemed fit. Part of the same school as the Stooges and the Velvet Underground, reflecting right back to Blue Cheer perhaps. MC5 and it's few contemperaries deserve it's own place in the PROGRESSIVE development of rock.
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.
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nowayman121
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 20 2006
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Points: 60
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 00:47 |
If it were to happen it wouldn't be punk in its true sense. Punk came out as a big skrew you to real musicians playing music, which was prog at the time, they killed it and prog almost died out. For a punk band to be prog it would be betraying what punk originally stood for. But by who teenyboppers think are punk, the so called "punk" bands defiling our radio i.e Greenday and Good Charlotte and Simple Plan , it could be, because the old meaning has been lost. Greenday (who have been lumped in with punk even tho they now r not) lattest album is a concept album and has some pretty long tracks (for that type of music that is) on it, so it could emerge. It's really a matter of defining punk...
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timothy leary
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Joined: December 29 2005
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Points: 5319
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 00:57 |
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what about pere ubu "the modern dance'' ?
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Zac M
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Joined: July 03 2005
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 01:02 |
timothy leary wrote:
what about pere ubu "the modern dance'' ?
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There's one example .
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Location: Peru
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 01:16 |
Pure Punk no way but a diffuse sound that uses both influences is possible, both Prog and Punk claim Hawkwind as one of the main influences.
Goth can easily blend with Prog and comes from the Punk scenario.
Iván
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Witchwoodhermit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 871
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 01:42 |
nowayman121 said: Punk came out as a big skrew you to real musicians playing music
Very, very true words. You probally don't realize how close you are. The term punk was actually coined in the sixties referring to kids-young up-starts, in bands who tried, and in many cases succeded, in stealing the limelight from the big "important" bands. These up- starts were referred to as "punks" by the big bands. Kids who just played, roughly, but with great passion. Bands like The Seeds, Electric Prunes, Blues Magoos, Kingsmen, all had room filling attenion, much to the shagrin of the heavyweights.
Those damn punk kids...
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.
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mithrandir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 25 2006
Location: New Mexico
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Points: 933
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 02:36 |
silly and naive thread,
punk upon its inception or renaissance period, approx (75-79) was just as "progressive" and forward thinking as the prog/psych of the late 60s/early 70s, its just the natural evolution of music, bands like Television, Suicide, Pere Ubu, Electric Eels, Gang of Four, Mars, Slits, etc etc, all incredible bands that took up the reigns of "experimentation and exploration" in rock music while the Prog scene swirled down the toilet of AOR and yes/genesis cloning (x) infinity, and through out the 80s and beyond where you're going to find the fresh ideas being explored in rock music is going to be in the Punk/hardcore and underground Metal scenes (industrial and electronic as well), Black Flag, the Minutemen, Flipper, Husker Du, Sonic Youth, FLux of Pink Indians, all the way into the 90s with sh*t like Moss Icon, Man Is the b*****d, Mohinder, Dystopia, etc. To make the asumtion that "progressive" and "punk" cant don't coexist is insane, then again it depends on your definition of what "progressive music" ought to be, as well as what "punk" ought to be, I'd definitely like to get into this more, but I got to go for now,
and no, Coheed and Cambria and Mars Volta, aren't punk nor hardcore, just silly music for neophytes IMO,
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SlipperFink
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 230
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 02:40 |
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The Fiendz - "Dreams"
An amazing record.
Management company insisted on the inclusion of 2 "Ramones" punk stylee
chestnuts from the bands old catalog... but otherwise... A flawless gem.
One of my favorite records... ever.
SM.
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Witchwoodhermit
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Joined: February 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 871
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 02:47 |
| Posted: March 28 2006 at 02:36 | IP Logged |
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mithrandir
Newbie
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silly and naive thread,
punk upon its inception or renaissance period, approx (75-79) was just as "progressive" and forward thinking as the prog/psych of the late 60s/early 70s, its just the natural evolution of music, bands like Television, Suicide, Pere Ubu, Electric Eels, Gang of Four, Mars, Slits, etc etc, all incredible bands that took up the reigns of "experimentation and exploration" in rock music while the Prog scene swirled down the toilet of AOR and yes/genesis cloning (x) infinity, and through out the 80s and beyond where you're going to find the fresh ideas being explored in rock music is going to be in the Punk/hardcore and underground Metal scenes (industrial and electronic as well), Black Flag, the Minutemen, Flipper, Husker Du, Sonic Youth, FLux of Pink Indians, all the way into the 90s with sh*t like Moss Icon, Man Is the b*****d, Mohinder, Dystopia, etc. To make the asumtion that "progressive" and "punk" cant don't coexist is insane, then again it depends on your definition of what "progressive music" ought to be, as well as what "punk" ought to be, I'd definitely like to get into this more, but I got to go for now,
and no, Coheed and Cambria and Mars Volta, aren't punk nor hardcore, just silly music for neophytes IMO,
Good observations, but try not to run people down for their tastes. We all disagree from time to time. Just be smart and play the game.
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 03:39 |
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I believe every genre being prog/progressive is possible. It just takes
the right person coming from the right place to create it.
Cardiacs is a great punk/prog band! They are on this site and called
founders of the genre 'Pronk' in their bio. The song you can stream
here is one of their more normal sounding ones and not really
representative. Give the hysterical 'Dog-Like Sparky' or some other
song from the exellent 'Sing to God' a listen. (Its got a 4.60 -
Masterpiece of prog rating! So some other people here must like them)
Lots of strange time signatures and twisted humour. People that already
likes Zappa or Samla Mammas Manna should have no trouble getting into
them.
Unmistakebly punk sounding, yet very progressive.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 04:59 |
Rocktopus wrote:
Cardiacs is a great punk/prog band! |
Exactly. They are really progpunk. Pretty good stuff.
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Is that Possible? Progressive Punk RocK?
