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Relayer: Yes

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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=100833
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Topic: Relayer: Yes
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Relayer: Yes
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 11:01
Yes's excursion with Moraz replacing the thought to be un replaceable Wakeman and doing a damn fine job. I love the jazz textures on this 1974 album. What's your opinion of Relayer?



Replies:
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 11:15
Amazing. I'm a serious Wakefan, but I love this and Drama. Everything came together perfectly. This is the band when they were peaking.

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Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 11:27
It's one of my favorites. I've heard many times and it still gets better with each listen. "Soon" must be one of the most beautiful moments in Prog.

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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 11:36
It's a heavy mo-fo of an album.  It's hard for me to imagine a Yes fan not liking it, it seems to be the most extreme expression of their art - which means it can be a bit harsh in spots.


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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 11:59
One of my top 3 Yes albums, along with CTTE and TFTO.


Posted By: 'PiphanyRambler
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 12:41
It's definitely my favorite Yes album. It's just so sharp! I mean, The Gates of Delirium, with that chaotic (by Yes' standards) central part - the best instrumental by Yes, I think - Wow! Then Sound Chaser with Steve Howe going berserk and that amusing "cha cha cha" part. It all sounds more "direct", less heavenly than other Yes stuff.
To Be Over is a personal favorite (the chant at the end is so sweet and soothing), so I'm a bit biased towards this album.

While I think the different sound on this album is a consequence of having Moraz instead of Wakeman, I also heard that Wakeman himself had written a portion of The Gates of Delirium before leaving, so perhaps they were already moving in that direction.


Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 12:55
Agreeing with most of the posts before mine.
Yes at their peak, and it's probably my favorite studio album after Going For The One.
Soon is beautiful, Moraz is legendary.
Ground breaking, sensational, uninhibited energy...


Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 14:05
the best Yes album after CttE (the 2nd best album ever made imho); that's all i gotta say. if you want more of my opinion, here's a link to my review:  http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1320482" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1320482 .




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Posted By: Stereolab
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 14:29
Excellent, along with GFTO, but doesn't hold a candle to Fragile or CttE. In fact, I just listened to Chris Squire's "Fish Out of the Water", after paying way too much for it, and it clearly trounces all of the Yes albums from this time range, a five-star effort IMHO... the album Yes should have made.


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 15:18
It's amazing that Yes could make such an amazing album as Relayer with a new band member after the turmoil which came with TFTO. A true tale of overcoming difficult times and shine at your best. I bet even Wakeman must have been overwhelmed at what those guys could do without him, even if he would never admit it.

My favourite Yes album together with CTTE (don't ask me to choose between these two).


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 15:22
^I think Wakeman was overwhelmed! Wink

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Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 16:16
For the sole band's investment's sake, this album deserves all the fondness and praise.

I prefer the global atmosphere, colours and textures in the less stuffy  CTTE and Fragile. 

BUT inspiring features like thepedalsteel fashioned sampling-like sequence 6'27-7'36 in Sound Chaser. AND praise be to the wonder-contrapunct Moraz-Howe in To Be Over 6'41-7'17




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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 16:26
My fave Yes album.  Tales was bigger in scope but Relayer was more compact...kind of like taking the creativity of 4 album sides compressed into 2.

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Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 19:24
The only album with Moraz, but he sure made his mark.

To be honest, I don't listen to this one much. Not because it's horrible - far from it, it's one of their best - but because it's one of those albums where, if I'm in the wrong state of mind, it can be emotionally overwhelming for me, especially with "Soon" and "To Be Over". I can apply the same thing with To Our Children's Children's Children (The Moody Blues), Bryter Layter (Nick Drake) and, to a lesser extent, Red (King Crimson). Then again, that's probably what makes it, and the aforementioned albums, so good.

BTW, I heard while recording "The Gates Of Delirium", Jon Anderson and Alan White band would drive to a junkyard and pick up all sorts of car parts for the latter to use for the battle sequence.


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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 02 2015 at 22:27
Not really sure. I really love Gates from Delirium... but on the other hand, Sound Chaser is one of the most annoying songs they have made (though it does have it's moments). And To Be Over is just rather frustrating.... it's got some really beautiful melodies, but this is one song that I feel goes on for too long, I like much better the solo versions Steve Howe has done with it, at about half it's length, and mostly (or totally) driven by acoustic guitar (I just wish they had made an acoustic version of this song with the whole band on those acoustic sessions Yes did in the 00's). And getting back at Gates of Delirium, I like much better the version with orchestra on Symphinic live, so I might actually not need the Relayer album at all.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 03 2015 at 06:53
Great album although I slightly resent the fact that Moraz brilliant work with Refugee got a bit overlooked . Relayer 'only' sits as my 5th favourite Yes album below CTTE,TYA,Fragile and Drama.

It's an extraordinary thing that Moraz replaced the two massive icons of the keyboard and bettered both of them!


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 04 2015 at 12:56

Hi,

I'm not sure how to say all this ... but here goes an attempt.

I have stated many times, that their previous albums is one of the greatest things ever written and done in rock history. It might not be appreciated by many because (in my book) they are too conditioned to the hit/song concept, a lot more than they are to something longer, more extensive, and conceivably, much more difficult to define.

YES in those days, and in the media, took a lot of flak for that piece of music, and it was  unfair, but it pretty much told you that there were two camps of people right away, and we already know about one of them from Keith Emerson's stories about various composers, who appreciated being noted, but had no idea or appreciation for what was being done to their piece with the new instrument!

You had the rock press, that was all "hero" and "ass" oriented. It still is. Not an inch of that is about the music or the work at all. The other camp was the classical music folks, all of whom thought that rock music was simplistic crap that should not even be called music. They have a right to say that when the compositions they are working with have 20 instruments on their staff, which means attention to detail is more important, and rock music has a tendency to only have 4 of these listed on the staff, and it is way too simple, and just having notes in there is not enough of a description, or definition of music. Mozart was using 4 instruments 400 years ago ... !

For me, the long cut i n"Relayer" was a major finger to the audience and to the critics. And it was an assault. And in many ways, pure "progressive rock", though we don't like to consider or accept the notion that something was improvised and developed that way, instead of composed. As an "classicist" or a person defining these pieces within a classical context, this gets harder because if there is one thing that those folks have not accepted in the history of music, it is ... ELECTRIC. And unffortunately, this involves 99.9% of all rock music!

For me, as I started to state aboe, it was a major finger, but in the end, the band had to give in to the audience and what made them the money which more than likely came from the record company at the time. The end piece of the large title cut is the 100% opposite of what the title cut was, and in side 2 you had a redo of a previous piece by this band.

I like the first side. I can do without the rest of the album! The guitar work, is to me, just like "Mother sky" (Can), or "Yeti" (Amon Duul 2), and I love those pieces, but they have one thing that Relayer did not have ... the guitar was not tiresome, and did not wear on your ears. Here, as nice as it was, after a while it came off as a true overindulgence, and not necessarily meaning anything more interesting on the visual story of the musical piece. Both CAN and AMON DULL 2 pieces are well rounded out with slower and quieter moments, which Relayer does not shine on, until the end of the piece. In that sense it was too much and if YES in 2014 is an example, it tells you that Squire and Howe, simply enjoy playing around together, rather than others ... and we never caught that before.

Lastly, I think that the record company hurt YES ... they released this album to the radio stations as a "banded" version, and considering that they were already famous for a couple of complete sides, seeing this made it harder for radio stations to enjoy something ... you would needle here and it was too busy and noisy, and you would not select that part, and go on to the next break. I'm a proponent of complete pieces, and to me they make better sense in one piece, not in parts. Does Beethoven's 5th sound better if you only hear 10 minutes of it, or all of it? Just pt 1, or part 2? See the point? You lose the perspective, and I'm not sure that rock folks have ever gained that appreciation, and they killed a lot of very good music because of it.

It's a good album. for me, however, there is only one album that matters by this band, and it is not "Relayer".



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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: January 04 2015 at 13:01
I really like the album but it must be admitted that the classic Yes formula was getting a bit worn out by this point.

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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 05 2015 at 02:03
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

I really like the album but it must be admitted that the classic Yes formula was getting a bit worn out by this point.

The 'formula' being long tracks? Musically it's one of the least formulated albums ever. Gates sounds like a studio jam session that got way out of hand but I love it all the same. The tracks on side two I'm slightly less keen on but I still admire and respect their intentions to try and do something different. The Yes 'formula album' for me is Going For The One where I start to hear a bit of repetition of ideas although its still a solid prog album.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 05 2015 at 06:43
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

The end piece of the large title cut is the 100% opposite of what the title cut was, and in side 2 you had a redo of a previous piece by this band.

Can you expand on those 2 comments, I don't understand the first one and which previous piece is redone on side 2?


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 05 2015 at 15:21
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

The end piece of the large title cut is the 100% opposite of what the title cut was, and in side 2 you had a redo of a previous piece by this band.

Can you expand on those 2 comments, I don't understand the first one and which previous piece is redone on side 2?

Perhaps he meant that Soon is the soothing anti climax to a climactic song?!

Side Two seems entirely original for Yes at that time. Sound Chaser is crazy fusion stuff and continues the 'insanity'.  To Be Over has Howe playing steel guitar to the fore. Now I'm sure that Howe must have used it before that album but when I have no idea. It adds a very Country music feel to my ears. Not an area that Yes had really ventured into before.


Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: January 05 2015 at 20:01
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

I really like the album but it must be admitted that the classic Yes formula was getting a bit worn out by this point.

The 'formula' being long tracks? Musically it's one of the least formulated albums ever. Gates sounds like a studio jam session that got way out of hand but I love it all the same. The tracks on side two I'm slightly less keen on but I still admire and respect their intentions to try and do something different. The Yes 'formula album' for me is Going For The One where I start to hear a bit of repetition of ideas although its still a solid prog album.

I'm not knocking Relayer at all. It's the last in a line of great albums. To me the culmination of the classic Yes sound was TfTO. They had really done all they could so with it at that point. Relayer still works but it is a bit overshadowed by it's predecessor. The next two are eclipsed by what came before and then the band found inspiration again on Drama.


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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 06 2015 at 01:50
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

I really like the album but it must be admitted that the classic Yes formula was getting a bit worn out by this point.

The 'formula' being long tracks? Musically it's one of the least formulated albums ever. Gates sounds like a studio jam session that got way out of hand but I love it all the same. The tracks on side two I'm slightly less keen on but I still admire and respect their intentions to try and do something different. The Yes 'formula album' for me is Going For The One where I start to hear a bit of repetition of ideas although its still a solid prog album.

I'm not knocking Relayer at all. It's the last in a line of great albums. To me the culmination of the classic Yes sound was TfTO. They had really done all they could so with it at that point. Relayer still works but it is a bit overshadowed by it's predecessor. The next two are eclipsed by what came before and then the band found inspiration again on Drama.

Ok although some might consider the comment ' getting a bit worn out by this point' as knockingWink . For me Relayer was a natural progression and probably Yes most challenging album to both listener and musician. Moraz added more of an edge to the music than Wakeman ever did imo. The problem as I understand it was that Yes was getting away from their core 'being' which was a nice hippy Beach Boys influenced prog band that had cute vocal melodies not a bad arse modern technical prog band. GFTO was a case of 'lets make an album for the fans' and bring back good ole Wakey. It stopped being 'progressive' to me but of course Yes were totally incapable of making a bad album although I hear a band repeating itself not pushing forward. Tormato has some great tracks but overall is a bit lacking . Drama could almost be regarded as a collaborative effort with another band but yes I agree its brilliant anyway. 


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:54
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

...
I'm not knocking Relayer at all. It's the last in a line of great albums. To me the culmination of the classic Yes sound was TfTO. They had really done all they could so with it at that point. Relayer still works but it is a bit overshadowed by it's predecessor. The next two are eclipsed by what came before and then the band found inspiration again on Drama.
 
Agreed. I stopped listening after "Relayer". As the cover suggests, this might be a bad experience and poisonous to your experience. It was also "gray" instead of colorful in the cover ... and i always felt that it said it all right there!
 
I commented on the recent YES review that what we need is another Chris/Steve rock out jam, and i think it would sound quite a bit like Relayer did ... however, it would be something that not everyone would enjoy or appreciate, since they already know that a lot of folks hated it.


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