Losing Hope In PA's Top Album Lists
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=102998
Printed Date: August 09 2025 at 12:14
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Losing Hope In PA's Top Album Lists
Posted By: Horizons
Subject: Losing Hope In PA's Top Album Lists
Date Posted: June 24 2015 at 20:33
|
I don't want to gloomy or like i'm complaining. I just wanted to share my current thoughts on a previously very impactful part of my PA experience. I've been currently using the main page's top album lists for years a lot less. It used to be where i went for pretty much the community's recommendations. Find new bands, albums, etc. It was filled with quality, top tier progressive albums. But recently all i've been seeing are third-rate albums with 30 ratings, and like 3 reviews make up the higher ranks. It's all the same genres: crossover, symph, neo, eclectic, by bands that just sound like "bleh". I'm not so much slamming the kind of music i dislike, though a part of it is the lack of other genres, but they just sound ..... poor? I know, it's a bad and awful way to describe it - but they're just like closet bands. I want bands that'll impact my listening. Great stuff from a band with a stronger presence. I understand it is the algorithm that PA uses that calculates rakings and whatnot. But for my sanity, what in the hell is this http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=48965" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=48965 , 47 ranks higher than To Be Kind? Or 61 ranks above Major Parkinson? Perfect Beings? Univers Zero? I don't understand how any visitor to the site can see our lists as credible or helpful. I mean, my whole point is that i've even stopped using it because of the content. I'd love seeing what are some top PR/MR albums released this year to see if i can listen to some new ones - but none show up  I guess some time put into tinkering the setting might get me 1 or 2 results. Maybe an easier way of seeing a list of new releases? tldr; I wish i could discover new music easier, but some of the tools are just unhelpful. I'm sure a lot of this is a personal issue. But i was just curious how others felt about the site's usefulness as time has passed - how they are finding more progressive music? ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Replies:
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 24 2015 at 21:06
|
Apparently there are only 8 new PR/MR releases for 2015 http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=32&salbumtypes=1&syears=2015&scountries=&sminratings=1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=1&smaxresults=100&x=74&y=7" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=32&salbumtypes=1&syears=2015&scountries=&sminratings=1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=1&smaxresults=100&x=74&y=7 and 27 for 2014 http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=32&salbumtypes=1&syears=2014&scountries=&sminratings=1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=1.&smaxresults=100&x=82&y=15" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=32&salbumtypes=1&syears=2014&scountries=&sminratings=1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=1.&smaxresults=100&x=82&y=15
------------- 
|
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: June 24 2015 at 22:05
| I don't think top album lists really work for everyone. Each person has their own tastes, but there are of course the well-loved albums with dislike being a very unpopular opinion. There are many top albums on the site that I don't like or don't like enough to put on a top list, so it's clearly not much of a reflection of how my own list would be. |
Posted By: DKoshino
Date Posted: June 24 2015 at 23:34
|
Can't you just ignore what you dislike? I mean, if you're trying to
find new music, then you shouldn't think that "one thing can't be
considered better than that another thing I already know". It's just a list, not a competition in which the artists have to prove the worth of being in the top. Many
of that new albums will drop little by little because people will lose
interest in them and keep giving scores to the more famous ones, so it's bad
anyway. Also, you already found a bunch of new music here, I suppose. Naturally, you exhausted most of the source limited by your interests. |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: June 24 2015 at 23:55
While I can't do anything about the lists, I can at least recommend a post rock album. On the Progfreak charts there's also 50 or so artists the post rock team haven't been able to do much about in terms of evaluations yet that merits a check. But for one specific album I find noteworthy from this year that isn't in the database:
------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Windhawk wrote:
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 00:00
|
I usually filter it out for my tastes. If I want some prog from late 70s with scores around 100-400 I search for that. But, err, The Enid should be in the top symphonic section. I think a good way of doing it would be to limit a particular artist to three albums each so it's not just Genesis/Yes/Camel/ELP under symphonic. I think the sole obscure (sorta) album there is Harmonium. Every single other one is a popularity contest. And the hidden gems section is sorely lacking.
------------- 
|
Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 00:34
| I think the problem is that the site is dying, as far as users creating reviews and rating albums. The volume of user input determines the top album lists, but over the past two or so years, I have noticed a significant decline of activity here. Is this just me, or do other regular users notice this? |
Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 02:51
I jumped on board here back in 2006, yet as you can see my posts are not in the thousands but I still keep coming back here when I can, more perusing than posting. I still believe its the best Prog site and source and its always been "Prog-Home" for me. But like everything in life there's the good years, the great years and inevitably the not so good ones, the ups and downs. Fortunately I have to say I've had more ups and good years here at PA. At the same time I have to agrre with the sentiments expressed in this thread in re to Top Album Lists. I'm glad I'm not the only one that felt the same. Top Album Lists to me are fun to read comparing them to what mine were. Unfortunately they weren't necessarily very helpful in helping me discover new music, new progressive music. The progressive rock music universe is so vast and varied I found it overwhelming at times. In the very least PA has always pointed me in the right direction. I don't know if there is an easier way to discover new progressive music, or that maybe its time for PA to do a revamping of the site, more user friendly (?), a different page layout, etc. And I realize its easy for me to say these things, but in no way taking away from all the great people here who have made it (still) the best prog rock site.  ------------- - Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats - |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 04:28
That's not true. There are just as many users rating albums as before - trust me, I've been working against rating manipulators up until a month ago. Reviews wise? I'm not sure, but I'd rather have 1 thoughtfully written review than 5 speedy gonzaleses that say next to nothing about the music. We used to get A LOT of those, so I'm kinda grateful those days are gone (crosses fingers). ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 04:39
|
Oh and I listened to that Northlands album too, Austin, and found it extremely sleep inducing. I wouldn't rate it above To be Kind or Twilight Cinema either, but I think a lot of peeps on here would. Another thing worth mentioning is that neither of the latter two albums sound like classic prog rock....Northlands does. I think a lot of PA members got their hands on To be Kind after having read all those wonderful reviews, only to feel cheated when they first played it 'That's not prog momma!!!!!' WTF!?!?!?!!!'....which then translates into bad ratings. On the other hand, it seems like the members who bought Northlands knew what they were getting into. Major Parkinson and Swans are divisive acts just like Can is. Took me a long time to understand why Tago Mago didn't feature in our top 100, but it came to me eventually: when music starts veering too far away from the symph prog mold you are going to get very scattered opinions. For a more interesting way to make lists (which I also do), then experiment with the filters. I often use the one that deals with the amount of ratings and set it to maximum 50 or 20 ratings. A whole new world opens up. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 05:13
|
I wouldn't take any list too seriously, if I were you. My own tastes diverge significantly from the majority of prog fans, and, though I've never shied away from expressing my views, I am well aware that they won't stop Steven Wilson or IQ from making it to the top of a typical Best of X Year list. Every year I vote in DPRP's album poll, knowing full well that my selections stand no chance whatsoever of making it to the top 10 (or even the top 100, to be perfectly honest). Do I lose sleep over it? You bet I don't. I keep on supporting the music I like, and don't get upset if most of the albums in any given year's top 10/20/50/100 list put me to sleep. |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 06:03
|
In this case its all about the "super user"'s taste, counting a lot more that all the ratings. The ratings in it self is 3.91 - and it would fall way down the list. That the price you pay, if you have the PA system, and not enough reviews. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 11:51
While still being a fan of Steven Wilson (oh the horror), I did visit the blogspot pointed to in your signature line. Checking out a few of the offerings, and I gotta say, I'm really liking what I hear from "Ni." Thanks for sharing this little gem  ------------- He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 12:14
You are very welcome, and thank you for the kind words ! The whole point of that weekly feature is to turn people on to bands that would otherwise fly under the radar, and I am glad every time someone discovers new music through our work. |
Posted By: melotron98
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 15:19
|
I want to say sth about top 100 ranking. I don't know what happens and how it exactly works but I remember that few months ago e.g. IQ's Road of Bones was placed in top 30 (top of all time) and now it is 44th and its rating didn't change significantly in this time and none of the albums from, let's say 30-43, got significantly higher rating. I think there was even such a period of time when this album was in top 20 (if I'm wrong please tell me) and was higher than e.g. Yes' Relayer. I really don't like IQ's newest piece I respect other's taste. However, I think it is kinda strange when a new album after few months "beats" symphonic/eclectic classics and then ends up in the middle of top 100 while Hackett's debut is oscillating near 100th place (I don't know what invisible forces are acting in such a way it still manages to survive in top 100 because it looked like to leave the list ) and Soft Machine's Third is already out (there could be much more examples). I don't take these lists too seriously. However, when I was looking for RIO, Zeuhl, Krautrock they were quite helpful. This post is not supposed to show any disappointment or anything. I'm just curious what do you think about it.
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 15:42
|
ehh... the lists serve one purpose... it is a guide for newbies as to popular albums. Useful really for those who woke up from a coma and needed to know that Genesis prog album are completely overrated and their pop albums underrated And that Tull should have called it quits after Aqualung. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 17:31
Fixed ------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 25 2015 at 17:54
|
hahhaha... good one brother.. . I gave them one album benefit of the doubt! As at least Aqualung had some good songs on it. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: June 26 2015 at 05:51
Hmmm... the Northlands album is not that bad, but it may be more accessible, or at least appealing to a broader audience than the examples you mention. That will influence ratings as well as number of ratings. It's just a list after all, and you have to possibility to filter out the genres you like or don't like if you take the effort to not just look at the overall list. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: deandob
Date Posted: June 26 2015 at 20:40
Hmm also.... The Northlands album is a beautiful piece of work and IMO superior to the other bands you are suggesting (Major Parkinson - hadn't heard them before and sampled a few of their works, they sound wacky to me and not in the same league as Northlands). Although Northlands is on the softer side doesn't mean it isn't good music, and I mostly listen to the heavier side of prog. It always amazes me the diversity of tastes people have, when looking for new music I go look up recommendations from others on this site and 95% of the time I don't like what I hear, even with suggestions based on artists supposedly similar to the ones I like. I assume the original poster doesn't like Iamthemorning, another brilliant but soft band.
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: June 26 2015 at 21:56
|
P.A. Serves as a guide to prog music, they are the most credible site and have the most extensive collection of info and music/albums We are not sheep, i.e. recent pop music, we all here, I assume, ignore it and instead listen to prog moozik of our personal taste or music prog genre choice
  |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 03:36
|
Who are "Losing Hope"? What's their album called? ------------- What? |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 03:46
|
I do take an active effort to promote new groups I think deserve more of an audience here, in particular if I find them to have well thought out original takes on their genres. Earlier this week I started http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=102974" rel="nofollow - a thread about the progressive sludge metal group Inter Arma, who had a new record out in Autumn last year titled The Cavern, which is very ambitious and interesting. Though officially an EP, it's one single 45-minute composition... like a sludge metal Thick as a Brick! Thing is that so far it's only one person who's replied. For the record I don't listen to quite as much 1960s/1970s music as I used to but more from the last 20 years or so, which I guess means I'm somewhat out of synch with many people here's cultural frames of reference. http://www.last.fm/user/toastermantis" rel="nofollow - My recent last.fm playlists show very little music from before the 1980s, and that which is there is from artists who are recognized today as ahead of their time. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 10:34
|
When I first got into Prog I searched every top ten, top 100 list I could find just to get varying opinions. I've used other reviewers opinions a lot as well but yeah I feel like I always do my homework and I still get music I really could care less if I ever hear again. There's no perfect way to do this although with all the samples available on YouTube and streaming sites at least you can listen before you buy. All lists are popularity contests but to this day I still enjoy looking at them and i'm still finding new(to me) albums from the seventies and later. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 20:16
------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
|
Posted By: Prog Sothoth
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 20:36
|
Lets face it, a lot of people into post rock aren't into IQ or early 70s prog, in which a site named Prog Archives would tend to attract. Same for some of the extreme metal fans & electronic fans. My sister went to a NIN show, saw Explosions in the Sky open and really dug them and wanted to learn more about them. She wouldn't think to come to this site for info, as she doesn't really listen to prog outside of a few well known bands (Floyd & such). I'm guessing the majority of post rock fans on this site are also fans of a lot of famous prog acts in general. I tend to discover new bands these days here through being a collaborator screening stuff moreso than perusing lists.
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: June 28 2015 at 21:07
hahahaha Dean, you are very naughty, you even made me doubt the topic after reading what you said mhwoaaahhxxx plus a big hug
|
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 08:40
I've noticed those generation gaps grow more and more readily apparent the longer I've been an active contributor to the forum, hence why I in the last couple years have written so many posts on them. Probably also not coincidence this forum has a much higher median age than most of the music message boards I've been to, nor does it help that my musical horizons become newer. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 17:06
|
we're all doomed, doomed I say... |