"So what is this 'prog' stuff?"
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105700
Printed Date: May 05 2025 at 13:13
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: "So what is this 'prog' stuff?"
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Subject: "So what is this 'prog' stuff?"
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 11:45
|
^ Someone asks to you. What do you tell them or what song/album do you play for them to give them an answer? ------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
Replies:
Posted By: sublime220
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 11:50
|
Siberian Khatru. Close enough to the mainstream audience without taking away any elements. ------------- There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark... |
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 13:49
| As a definition in purest form, I'd say Gentle Giant. They are simply one of the most innovative bands I've ever heard. However, I'd probably introduce someone to it through Rush, Pink Floyd, Yes, Dream Theater, or a band like that. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 13:54
|
A good introduction is Camel, IMO. Mirage as first choice. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 14:25
|
"It's over your head so don't bother." (I work with lots of country music fans, which makes me cranky)
|
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 14:31
| an acquired taste |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 15:38
|
I'd first ask them what they like and what role music plays in their life. Roughly where they're coming from. Then I see whether I can recommend something that I think could connect (unless they're just happy to try out what I like most). Certainly they need to know that prog isn't anything uniform and homogeneous that can be understood (and perhaps dismissed) by listening to a single example. |
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 16:00
Great choice! Certainly one of the first prog albums I fell in love with and a great representative of the symphonic prog sound. ------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
octopus-4 wrote:Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 16:16
|
Yes - CTTE ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Ier
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 16:27
|
"I thought you would never ask..." Gentle Giant of course! ------------- http://grendelhq.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - My personal page 
|
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 16:41
|
I tried to convey the idea of Prog once by doing a YouTube search for Genesis' Musical Box, and then Playing it for them. It probably served as the best explanation I could give in a limited time span. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 16:42
------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 16:52
I doubt it amuses my co-workers.
|
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 17:37
Interesting that you bring this one up since it partially inspired my starting this topic. I just bought Nursery Cryme today and thought about how "classic prog" it was. ------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 19:06
|
When I try to convey to someone what prog is about through a song/songs I tend to lean on instrumentals. I think people who are not use to more progressive music tend to rely on vocals to get the "sound" of the song. Camel and Rush instrumentals are often chosen by me to show to first timers. The conversations afterwards go one of two ways. Them : "Hey that song had no lyrics." Me: "I know, how awesome is that!" Then this is more often when the conversation spins out of control with them saying they need some lyrics or somebody singing. A few times people have gotten behind the idea, then I put on some The Inner Mountain Flame or The Grand Wazoo and they bolt for the door. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 20:40
|
I describe it as an orchestra with rock musicians. That's a good definition for a lot of symphonic bands, and although it doesn't really do the question justice, you have to start somewhere. It's what Kerry Livgren called his music, and I stand by it. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 21:02
|
"A genre of music that may or may not contain artists you like depending on your tastes." I'd ask them what they like and then respond with recommendations. ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
|
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 31 2016 at 22:16
| If you want to show someone what prog is without concern of whether they may like it or not, I would go with the album Close to the Edge. If you want to go carefully so the person won't dismiss prog at first listen, I would have to find out what music he already likes and go from there... though often enough Pink Floyd should end up being the first choice. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 06:58
|
I always point out that there's music to dance to, and music to listen to. Prog is something you listen to, and enjoy the experience of analyzing the composition, how the music is orchestrated, how the instruments are played, etc. Few people get into it, but that's ok with me. I always suggest they listen to the radio-friendly songs, like "Living in the Past", "From the Biggining", or other songs that were popular or that might fit the profile. |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 07:02
| IDK, I always show Esmectatons to anyone who never heard of prog or avantgarde and people get shocked forever. |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 07:45
|
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 08:05
|
I've found that describing it as "next-level rock and roll" has provoked a number of both friends and family to dig deeper into prog/listen to suggestions I had for their unique interests.
Funnily enough, I was just thinking to myself a moment ago how Gentle Giant just might be the peak of 70's progressive rock for me. They are difficult to just throw at a lot of music listeners; there's definitely an intuitive graspability of their playful, almost poetic use of meter and beat. Couple this with some great rock hooks, and there's quite certainly a lot to be gleaned from this more or less genre-transcending act.
Certainly they need to know that prog isn't anything uniform and homogeneous that can be understood (and perhaps dismissed) by listening to a single example. I agree with this. If there's one thing I've learned over the years as both a musician and collector/listener of prog; not everyone has the same tastes or "ears" for certain stuff. Getting an idea of what they may enjoy most (and what they may be most receptive to) has gone very far with both family and friends for me.
Finally, this just might be my personal choice as well. I keep a CD copy of CTTE within reach at nearly all times! ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: Skalla-Grim
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 08:18
Probably one of these: - Genesis: Dance on a Volcano - Yes: Siberian Khatru - Emerson, Lake & Palmer: Tarkus (song) - King Crimson: 21st Century Schizoid Man - Gentle Giant: Proclamation ------------- "4/4 - That's 5/4 minus one." - Don Ellis (1934-1978) |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 09:13
|
Hi, "Nahhhh ... not for you ... you're better off with baroque music! When you're tired of that let me know and I will get you some Purcell and Vivaldi!" (400 to 500 years behind the times sounds good, NO?)
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 09:30
|
I simply don't bother recommending prog to anyone these days. When I go to the local used vinyl shop the owner and two other guys who hang there call me 'Dr Prog' and we usually end up teasing each other about musical tastes and bands . Some times they'll bring over an old piece of vinyl from someone who's definitely not prog (and they know this..) and ask me if this is prog. We have a laugh and then move on to other discussions. It's all in good fun.  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 09:36
|
What would you play for someone who likes the following artists: The Beatles, Bruce Springsteen, Bach, Dire Straits, David Bowie. Likes melodic but not too slow (boring). Any recommendations? ------------- |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 09:43
... something I could think of ... melodic ... hmmmm .... challenging ... but since all music that is listed here, does not lack melody ... you request is tough ... everything is melodic here, otherwise it is not called "music" ... it's called "noise". Not sure how to answer this one, other than just naming similar bands, which I imagine will bore you silly! Probably give you PF, which was suggested just below.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 09:45
I'd probably start with Pink Floyd somewhere between DSOTM and Animals and also The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (the best moments). I'd assume this person could be lured by good melodic guitar and also by a charismatic voice and singer, although trying out Gabriel and other top prog vocalists could be hit and miss. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 09:54
^ I think Gabriel's first album would be a place to start then you could work backward. My son in law likes a wide variety of music so I burned some Tull, Yes, Genesis, etc for him but he has never really responded to these bands. But he does like the one and only Blindfaith album as well as Cream and Traffic- Low Spark . He seems ok with classic rock that borders on prog. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 10:50
Thanks all, seem like great suggestions! A major minus however is that he doesn't really like long songs, especcially for example long intros and solos, sounds familiar doesn't it?  I guess krautrock bands like Faust wouldn't be very succesful though I think. Once I played Firth of Fifth. Nice classical influences, no really boring parts and beautifully melodic. His reaction: not so harmonic (whaaaaat?!), and actually a bit boring though. ------------- |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 10:55
|
^ I'm sure the Faust suggestion was for fun Well, we can't all like the same things. Springsteen and Dire Straits bore me to tears  |
Posted By: sublime220
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 11:45
|
Funny you should mention Faust. When I first discovered the album, only prog I had in my repertoire were PF and a little bit of late Genesis. But it completely changed everything I thought about in music (I was twelve at the time). I credit their first album as being my real introduction to music, despite being (still) one of the weirdest things I have ever heard. ------------- There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark... |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 11:57
^ Awesome introduction 
|
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 12:18
DS was ok until "Love Over Gold" ... after that ... ciao baby! BS ... nice songs ... so what/ It was for fun, but sadly, anyone asking something like that, I imagine is looking for more songs that sound the same as what they already have, and that, is not progressive in own right. Thus, I tried to have some fun, hoping to open up the ideas a bit. Sometimes it works, and sometimes not. But, for anyone to enjoy progressive, long or short has nothing to do with it ... the music does, so when one automatically separates the music by what it is ... instead of what you want ... the concept of "progressive" is now dead ... and I prefer not to make suggestions. Music is "never" what we want ... music, lke any art, is one person/one group's expression, and you either appreciate it or you don't ... so these kinds of thoughts are scary for me as a 50 year listener of music ... all kinds of music! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 12:23
|
Question: "What is Prog?" Answer: "Emerson, Lake & Palmer" *cue "Tarkus" |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 13:03
|
Really I would ask follow up questions like....."Are you ready to explore music, dig deeper and spend quality time listening?" If they waffle around with a response then don't bother, it's not worth the aggravation. Clearly if they have interest then you need to first understand their current interests. Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis are all safe bets, I mean if they can't handle "You And I", "I Know What I Like..", Wish You Were Here"......then how will they handle King Crimson, ELP or Gentle Giant? Most of the time I don't bother.....There is TONS of music out for people to listen to, no shortage for sure. -------------   
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 13:08
I would never do that. I don't think its right to communicate such quality judgments on music, and that would put people off. Imagine telling someone who listens to classical/ academic music that. To know what they like already is important. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 13:14
It's a "question" not a statement or comment.......If they say yes then I would go forward, if they say no then I don't go forward. If someone does not want to try sushi or sashimi...I would not spend time trying to convince them it is good, that would be trying to communicate a quality judgement on food. -------------
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 13:18
Fair enough, just thought the "quality time listening" phrasing might imply to people that should they be willing to listen they would be spending time listening to quality music. I understand you, though. Or if not taken as implying that it is quality music, understood that the time spent on it would be worthwhile when that person might spend lots of time listening and think "god, what a waste of time that was". |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 13:27
Of course it's quality music......any other music is krapp, we all know that!!  -------------
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 13:34
|
I like Krapp (well, in moderation). https://soundcloud.com/krappattak" rel="nofollow - https://soundcloud.com/krappattak Actually, I think I might ask, "Are you ready for pain? Are you ready for sufffering? If the answer is Yes, then you're ready for Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans" |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 13:58
|
LOL -------------
|
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 16:42
|
I definitely agree that specific sections of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway would be awesome for someone transitioning from traditional rock, especially from that era. ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 17:21
I could believe that, hearing Hairless Heart in a seedy musical theatre pre-internet days and my subsequent search to find out what it was played the biggest role in me really delving into Prog, and, unfortunately, eventually leading me to the hellish pits of PA. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: February 02 2016 at 19:13
Fair enough. Still, many people can explore and get into something something step by step, starting from where they are, and it is a process and needs time. Starting with the most adventurous thing may put them off all too early. Then there are some who listen to something completely different from what they like and think it's a revelation. It can work, but it's for small minorities, I think. |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 00:08
------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music
|
Posted By: addictedtoprog
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 00:26
|
Gates Of Delirium |
Posted By: WeepingElf
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 09:08
|
I have sometimes said in the past, "Imagine a band that makes album after album full of Bohemian Rhapsodies". I know that the BR is not a "pure" prog song, and citing it as an example of prog is somewhat misleading, but IMHO it shows many of the qualities of prog, and everybody knows it and finds it cool, even many people who aren't much into prog. But the best example of prog is, as many people here have already said, Close to the Edge. When I am asked what prog is, I usually say something like "A genre of more sophisticated rock music, for example Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush, Marillion, Dream Theater or Spock's Beard". ------------- ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf "What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes." |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 09:17
And this is the part that is scary in a question like this one ... I feel like saying ... are you looking for music? Or just another song? And sometimes, breaking the pattern and having fun with it, is the best answer, and while I was being out in left field having fun and a laugh, in the end, it's not really that far out of a suggestion ... it's an honest chance at learning something about music, that top ten, and stuff that is copy-copy, can not provide at all!
After my introduction to Tangerine Dream (Mysterious Semblance at the Strand of Nightmares), there was no longer any need for me to be babysat with new music. My ears were busted up good! So, if it puts them out, the likelihood is that they weren't into music anyway, since if you were into music, you would always find something of value that would pique your interest. Music is not about intimidation ... it's about finding the beauty in between all those notes ... and if you can find it between 5 notes, but not in between the "other" 5 notes ... then you're not into music ... you're into your own choice of songs. With all due respect, I would consider most of the folks here well rounded music lovers. And not exactly fat, either!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 10:42
My kind of guy ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 12:10
Probably the most brilliant prog song ever but not sure I'd play it for someone who was unfamiliar with the genre.
|
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 14:56
|
I would play them Soup by The Can.......Scare them the frick away so they leave my rekkid store alone...no prog for you!! Don't touch my rekkid store....... -------------
|
Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 14:57
Never thought of that one, that's just the best way of making someone curious about prog! Thanks!  ------------- |
Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: February 05 2016 at 10:23
That is exactly the song I use to try and explain Prog Rock to people who are unfamiliar. I tell them that the songs aren't straight-forward the whole way through... and that the songs usually consist of different parts, and those parts might be influenced by different genres such as pop, hard rock, classical, folk, and jazz. Besides "Bohemian Rhapsody", some other reasonable mainstream examples to throw at them are "Roundabout", "Carry On Wayward Son", and "The Ballad of Billy the Kid". |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 05 2016 at 10:39
Unfortunately, I find this unfair to any piece of music. We don't go around taking one slice of Beethoven's 9th and say that it is prog, and the rest is proto. We don't do that to The Barber of Seville (or London!) at all ... and doing this to any piece of music is demeaning for my view ... why would an artist, create something ... just so you could think that the left side of the canvas is crap and the right side is great? Every artist will tell you to stick it on that account. You either respect the whole piece as a representation of this or that, or you don't ... but tearing it apart ... here, let me give you a clue ... shall I tear up Guernica and give you a small square? You think you will know what that little square is all about in the big picture? Why do we disrespect our own generations amount of work and art? I just find this so scary ... that we look at it with commerciality in mind, not art! And kill it any chance we get! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: February 06 2016 at 10:05
|
Cogs In Cogs Karn Evil 9 (First Impression, Part Two) And You And I Songs From The Wood If that doesn't work then there's no hope.
|
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: February 06 2016 at 10:56
"Prog is a journey of a 1000 flavors, and it begins with a number of steps. It's either your thing or it isn't."
|