Early Black Prog Groups?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114056
Printed Date: May 08 2025 at 14:47
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Topic: Early Black Prog Groups?
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Subject: Early Black Prog Groups?
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 18:08
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Ain't talking bout "Love", (but they were a great, eclectic group).. I've always loved The Stylistics, Delfonics, Dramatics, and anything else that ends in ICS.. But seriously, if there's anything a bit under the radar, or something very similar, I'm sure some would love to hear. Can you imagine "You Make Me Feel Brand New" with a bit of jamming? (I don't care if they are white, didn't want to make a paragraph out of the subject title) |
Replies:
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 18:32
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Rotary Connection WAR Funkadelic Mandrill Osibissa Isaac Hayes early Kool and the Gang Soundtrack to "Sweet Sweetback's Badass Song" mid 70s Miles Davis Herbie Hancock Sextet Shuggie Otis Junie Morrison Chambers Brothers David Sancious Billy Cobham The Jimi Hendrix Experience Larry Young's Fuel (mid 70s) early Earth Wind and Fire As far as individual songs go, there are some interesting things by The Meters, The Ohio Players and Quincy Jones. For more current music, there is some interesting artsy RnB coming out of LA lately, particularly Thundercat. There is more, but I have to think about it. This site might help you out, it has extensive lists of funk and RnB artists with jazz and art pop leanings: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/ |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 19:12
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I think DEMON FUZZ was all black and they are here on PA under jazz-fusion. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 20:05
Good list but don't forget Stevie Wonder, Tony Williams, Stanley Clarke and Curtis Mayfield. Lenny White(drummer from RTF) also had some interesting solo material. Of course there's also Prince but he was a bit later. |
Easy Money wrote:Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 20:15
| ^ I had just come back to the site to add Stevie Wonder to the list, and you're right, Curtis Mayfield belongs as does Stanley, Tony and Lenny. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 20:45
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Sly and the Family Stone's early stuff is surprisingly progish. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 20:52
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As well as the METERS ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 21:04
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Not to be pedantic here but shouldn't this be in the general music forum and not under prog...? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 22:49
Still love and listen to David Sancious Just as I Thought----very proggie---and produced by Yes genius Eddie Offord
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 01 2018 at 23:08
| Osibisa are my favourites !! Love Osibisa. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 01:17
The Temptations recorded a lot of proggy material in the late 60's early 70's. But their actual albums were always a mix of one or two advanced, beautifully orchestrated mini-epics and shorter more typically recognizable Motown-soul/funk, perhaps a syrupy ballad (or a nice one) and a dullish cover (or a good one). Not sure if they had to do it like that to survive or make the record company happy - or maybe they simply liked it that way. Anyway I'd skip the regular albums and go for this fantastic collection:  |
Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 01:18
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What about Fela Kuti? If that's not prog, what is... And in the 80's and 90's Salif Keita made some outstanding fusion-crossover records. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 01:31
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I thought the O.P. was a bit ‘harsh’ in saying ‘ black’. Now I’m not intending in any way, shape or form, of bringing politics into this fantastic poll question. I’m way far of being ‘racist’, and I’m not a ‘red tape’ do-gooder’ either. So...........let’s just say that certain indigenous races have a heart and soul many of us ‘Westerners’ lack, and it shines in the music they perform. |
Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 01:58
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Nurture and nature of course. It's the same with sports. Black people are more often basketballplayers and white people are more often iceskaters or golfers. In music more black people are jazz/blues/r&b/hiphop and more white people are punk/metal/rock/classical. But that's all changing (thank god). I really wish I was colourblind. But I was raised in the 80's and 90's. On the other hand, when it's not meant as racist, I think it would be okay to refer to a band as a black progband. Without the means and money and education that most privileged people had, it's good to see that people with different backgrounds have a knack for difficult music. The same goes for all people (regardless of skincolour) who grew up without musical education or education at all and went on to play the most terrific music.
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 02:05
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I second Sly and Family Stone. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 02:30
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What's going on is a prog album. I hear some prog in the first Sylvers albums too. The Sylvers II - Love Me, Love Me Not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXuAC1_97iw |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 03:05
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Black Merda were a psychedelic funk band; I would call them "prog-related". -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 05:30
Also good were Cymande who were (mainly) Jamaicans based in the UK. Their first album is a mellow gem of Rasta prog. ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 05:39
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 07:22
| ^Yep. Even Chubby Checker had a psych album. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 10:22
Great list of artists. I would add Charles Loyd.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 10:41
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No one has mentioned Wayne Shorter. He had bona fide jazz fusion excursions and some mighty good ones at that. More on the prog side of the equation rather than the soul / funk ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 10:43
------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 12:58
Cymande is also under that genre =============== Monomono (Nigeria - 70's) |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 13:04
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Sjob (Nigeria - 70's) |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 13:09
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Batsumi (South Africa - 70's) I'll be back for more tomorrow  Enjoy in the meantime  |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 13:22
Nope. Another artist not mentioned yet(until now) is Lonnie Liston Smith(solo or w/Cosmic Echoes). Maybe more on the funk/soul side. George Duke wasn't mentioned yet either. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 18:59
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Funkadelic Gil Scott-Heron Kool & The Gang Quincy Jones Public Enemy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 20:19
^ Kool & The Gang?!!!  Don't get me wrong, i do love them but on this list? hmmmm ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Walkscore
Date Posted: March 02 2018 at 21:32
| Sean Trane, thanks so much for posting the Sjob Movement tunes. I am a huge fan of Afrobeat, and Fela in particular, but I hadn't heard of this band. Excellent! |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: March 03 2018 at 06:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkK7-Pffaso" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkK7-Pffaso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SFt7JHwJeg" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SFt7JHwJeg
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 03 2018 at 06:50
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^ You are correct that i'm only familiar with their pop hits and good ones they are. This list seems to have become more of an all encompassing black artist list than prog black artists. Personally i would think we should stick to what's eligible for PA inclusion. Just my 2cents worth. Otherwise Stevie Wonder, man! Fishbone! Max Roach, Sun Ra, Living Color, Michael Jackson, Tina Turner and i could go on forever!!!! BTW, someone has infected this thread. Now when i click on it, something begins to download onto my computer. This happens occasionally on some of these pages. Anyone else have this happen? Strange! ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 03 2018 at 07:24
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Yes...on some of the pages here from time to time something tries to get on the computer and my Windows10 tells me to discard it. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 03 2018 at 07:36
Founding trumpeter Michael Ray left when the band went pop and joined up with Sun Ra. Later he started his own psychedelic jam band called Michael Ray and the Cosmic Krewe, fun band in their own right, love early Kool and the Gang, awesome band. |
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: March 03 2018 at 10:57
Yes, this happens sometimes when people embed youtube videos in their posts. Can't remember the exact cause of the issue, but it isn't really anything to worry about; just discard the file that gets downloaded and you'll be fine. I think it happens more often when people embed videos just by typing the URL suffix in as such: [ TUBE]<suffix of youtube URL>[/TUBE] When you embed videos using the "Insert Movie" icon above the text editor it doesn't seem to cause any problems, like this one I inserted: ------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 03 2018 at 18:09
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Hi, I, personally, wish that we would not look at musicians as of a "color". THEY ARE PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND I. They deserve at least that in respect, and the music "definitions" should NEVER have any color demarcations. I find this post informative and appreciate the incredibly good list ... but separating them as "black", is offensive to me and many folks. Jimi is not "black" ... he's a massively great musician that we all love, and so are all the others. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 03 2018 at 19:01
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^ to ignore differences between us does everyone a disservice. Those are things we should acknowlegde and celebrate not ignore. Black people are black. They call themselves that. This is a thread of admiration not disrespect. Political correctness doesn't make things better. There have been and still are significant differences in black and white music and to pretend otherwise doesn't make any sense to me. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 03 2018 at 19:02
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Re Moshkito: I appreciate what you are trying to say, as Martin Luther King would say, we should judge each other 'by the content of our character, not the color of our skin", but considering the heavy price every black man pays for their birth given race, they feel no shame or any reason to hide from being black, musician or otherwise. Feel free to visit my homepage on this site, or my facebook page which I will gladly supply via private message, and you will see that I do not speak from an area of ignorance or lack of personal experience. Possibly to some, the op's original request might have come across as naive or even clumsy, but obviously his intentions were positive and based on his appreciation for a certain style of music. In turn I tried to respond in a way that kept things in a positive light, and for the most part, all other responses have also been respectful and positive as well. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 09:13
Don't forget the ones I mentioned too.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 09:33
long reply lost due to ..some reason... but agreed with John here Pedro. Music is often an expression, a social political one...and a most powerful one for what those that are black have, and still today, have to suffer in a country that has seen them as 2nd class citizens.... or simply f**king animals. Like the President we just elected.. and yes.. those that voted for him. Make America Great Again.. no.. what it was was Make America White Again... a perfect world the topic would be silly. we would be colorless.. and while we may practice that in our personal lives... in a larger context.....but we FAR from being a perfect times and our society is FAR from color blind. I find the music of black musicians educating if that is the right word for it.. I"m as white as f**king Wonder bread but with soul enough, and brain and eyes enough to know they are being sh*t upon by the country and have for centuries. Music is a wonderful expression for what they feel. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 09:48
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I forgot one of my absolute favorite spiritual jazz/soul/funk/spoken word/east meets west (and later new age)-artists who I was pleased to discover in the Indo/Raga-section at PA: the wonderful Brother Ah I'd reccomend starting with Move Ever Forward or this previously unreleased 1977-album http://https://brotherah.bandcamp.com/album/divine-music-the-sea-1978" rel="nofollow - The Sea (stream full album or buy at bandcamp)
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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 10:54
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A few more I needed to add:. Lenny White Alphonse Mouzon Michael Andre Lewis (Mandre') Alphonso Johnson Nathan East .
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 11:17
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A lot of jazz fusion bands mentioned and some rock/r&b bands that imho aren't really prog at all......are there actually any true 'prog rock bands' (in the classic sense...) that came out of black culture...? All the bands that seem 'proggy' to me like Band Of Gypsys, Living Colour, Sly...and Stone, Funkadelic...etc aren't what I would call prog rock. Or am I missing something here and being too picky...? ;) ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 11:20
------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 11:36
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Two very good records but to me they fall into the BST, Chicago , Santana, mold of jazzy fusion crossover prog rock with horns ,etc....certainly prog elements but not straight ahead prog rock ala classic retro bands. I'm looking to hear some black musicians who wanted to do symphonic prog like Genesis or Yes or even some heavy stuff like early KC. I'm just curious if such a thing exists.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 13:01
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sh*t Doc.. even whitie wouldn't touch that over intellectual... european classical music driven 'classic' prog sound you are looking for. Of course Kansas made a lame attempt at it.. but then again.. it was Kansas so that turned out about as well as you might have expected it to do. then again.. much could be said about limey attempts to do jazz-rock... about as much in their blood as that classical sh*t is in ours. Even the blues.. oh they had the technique.. but none of the feeling that is essential to it. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 14:40
There's probably a few black prog musicians here and there but no full bands that I'm aware of. In other words there's no prog version of Living Colour(at least that I'm aware of). Ty Tabor from King's X hasn't been mentioned yet though and imo deserves a shout out. I believe Jimi was mentioned already though. I would say the closest to black prog is fusion.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 14:44
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I suppose that classic prog rock sound just wasn't in the black culture in those days....but if I hear anyone bad mouth Kansas again they are going to have to deal with my friend Guido. ;) ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 14:51
You mean Doug Pinnick, King's X's bassist/vocalist? Ty Tabor, as far as I can remember, is white. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 04 2018 at 14:59
| David Sancious plays prog rock sometimes, the first couple Stanley Clarke albums have a couple prog type numbers and Return to Forever's "Romantic Warrior" is pretty much prog, but generally speaking African based culture prefers syncopated rhythms as well as two rhythms at once, such as 3 against 4. Prog rock doesn't have that, even in 'odd metered' rhythms the rhythms are fairly straight ahead and are accented right on the downbeat, as opposed to accenting the in between beats. Or even more sophisticated, switching between accenting the downbeat and then the in between beats, such as in Afro-Cuban music. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: March 05 2018 at 16:34
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 09:52
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Interestingly, I just did a radio broadcast on the "African Roots of Jazz-Rock Fusion" two weeks ago. Here's the playlist: This email contains playlist data from WDRT sent to you from Spinitron.com, WDRT's playlist automation provider. Prog is Alive (Music) with Drew 03/04/2018 10:00PM to 12:00AM 10:00PM-10:05PM (5:00) Eddie Henderson “Scorpio-Libra (edit)” composed by Eddie Henderson from Realization (1973) on Capricorn Records(USA) — talk over, cut short 10:03PM Set break — Introduce tonight's theme: African Influences on Progressive Rock Music 10:05PM-10:06PM (1:00) Babatunde Olatunji “African Drum Performance (edit)” from African Drum Performance (MP3, Single, 2003) — talk over, cut short 10:06PM-10:09PM (3:58) Mongo Santamaria “Afro-Blue” from Mongo (Single, 1959) on Fantasy ( http://www.tradition-moderne.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.tradition-moderne. 10:10PM-10:16PM (6:44) John Coltrane “Tunji (edit)” from John Coltrane (1962) on Atlantic (USA) — talk over, cut short 10:17PM-10:20PM (3:44) Hugh Masakela “Bajabula Bonke (Healing Song)” from The Americanization Of Ooga Booga (Single, 1965) on MGM Records (USA) 10:28PM-10:35PM (7:42) Pharoah Sanders “Upper Egypt & Lower Egypt (Part 2)” composed by P. Sanders from Tauhid (1967) on Impulse! (USA) 10:32PM-10:39PM (7:04) Alice Coltrane “A love supreme” from World Galaxy (Jazz, 1971) on GRP Records (USA) 10:38PM-10:41PM (3:10) The Parliaments “All Your Goodies Are Gone” from All Your Goodies Are Gone (7 Inch, Single, 1967) on Revilot Records 10:41PM-10:45PM (4:21) Santana “Jin-go-lo-ba” from Santana (LP, Album, Rock, 1969) on Columbia (USA) 10:45PM-10:49PM (4:20) Yusef Lateef “Eastern Market” composed by Yusef Lateef from Yusef Lateef's Detroit Latitude 42° 30' Longitude 83° (1969) on Atlantic (USA) 10:49PM-10:56PM (7:14) Fela Anikulpo Kuti and Afrika 70 “Jeun Ko Ku (Chop 'n Quench)” from Nigeria 70 (CD, Comp, 2009) on Strut (USA) 11:01PM Station ID 11:01PM-11:04PM (3:38) Curtis Mayfield “Move On Up (Radio Edit)” from Move On Up (Radio Edit) (Single, 1970) 10:05PM-10:08PM (3:34) Gil Scott-Heron “Lady Day and John Coltrane” from Pieces Of A Man (1970) on Flying Dutchman 11:09PM-11:12PM (3:56) Funkadelic “I've Got A Thang, You've Got A Thang, Everybody's Got A Thang” from Funkadelic (LP, 1970) on Westbound Records 11:13PM-11:17PM (4:20) Mandrill “Mandrill” from Mandrill (1970) on Polydor (USA) 11:17PM-11:23PM (6:22) Mandrill “Peace and Love suite” from Mandrill (1970) on Polydor (USA) — opening 50; talk over 11:23PM-11:26PM (3:54) War “War Drums” from War (1971) on Far Out Records 11:27PM-11:31PM (4:43) Earth, Wind & Fire “Bad Tune” from Earth, Wind & Fire (1971) on Warner Bros. (email, UK) 11:33PM-11:41PM (8:03) The Pharoahs “Damballa” from awakening (1971) on Luv N'Haight 11:41PM-11:48PM (7:04) Osibisa “the Dawn” from Osibisa (LP, Album, Rock, 1971) on Decca (London) 10:47PM-10:53PM (6:23) Funkadelic “I Bet You” from Funkadelic (LP, 1970) on Westbound Records 11:54PM-11:59PM (5:05) Cymande “Bra” from Cymande (LP, Album, Private, 1972) on Janus 11:59PM-12:02AM (3:54) Santana “Waves Within” from Caravanserai (1972) on Columbia (USA) 11:58PM Set break — Songs recap; goodnights & thank yous ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |