The Asperger syndrome
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Topic: The Asperger syndrome
Posted By: BaldJean
Subject: The Asperger syndrome
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 07:44
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I just read this interesting article about the Asperger syndrome, or shortly AS, which both Friede and I have (our daughters mentioned this in some other thread), by someone who has the syndrome herself. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/aspergers-diary/200804/what-does-it-mean-have-asperger-syndrome" rel="nofollow - https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/aspergers-diary/200804/what-does-it-mean-have-asperger-syndrome it is the best description of the syndrome I have read so far. mark the many times "may" was used in this article; the spectrum of AS is quite diverse. something that really hit home with me is that people with AS have a narrow area of interests. this may sound odd coming from someone who apparently has a lot of interests, but "odd" is actually the keyword here. I am chiefly interested in odd things. anything that is outside the normal tickles my interest, a trait I share with Friede. clumsiness is also something that hit home with me. I was a very clumsy child. fortunately practicing yoga since early childhood improved this greatly, but occasionally the clumsiness comes through again, and I commit an act of incredible clumsiness. the same is true for Friede, including practicing yoga since early childhood. Friede had attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) as a kid, which is rare for someone with the Asperger syndrome. it was because of this that she started yoga as a kid on recommendation from her doctor. I on the other hand had sluggish cognitive tempo (SCT) as a kid, a trait I possibly share with Einstein who probably had it too. he also most probably had AS as well. I use "most probably" because backward diagnosis should be treated with care. I started yoga because my parents who were hippies and were very much into it had me do it. as to handwriting: the handwriting of both Friede and me is illegible, sometimes even to ourselves. and then of course looking someone into the eyes. if I force myself to do it I can, but it makes me feel uncomfortable; I rather lower my gaze and stare into my lap or at something on the table. Friede stares over the shoulder of people she talks to, staring somewhere into the distance. like me she can force herself to look the other one into the eyes, but like me it makes her feel uncomfortable. as to odd way of speaking: I usually speak with an extremely quiet voice. again I can speak louder if I force myself, but again I feel uncomfortable then. Friede on the other hand speaks with a very loud voice, and for her it is very uncomfortable to speak in a quiet voice, though like me she can force herself to speak in a normal voice. both of us really have to concentrate on speaking normally, else we quickly fall back into our usual way of speaking. we both seemingly behave quite normally, but as the article mentions it is kind of a put-on show, a simulation. and there is always something odd about us. which is probably what made us fall in love with each other because, I already mentioned it, we both love oddities. small talk is absolutely abhorrent to both of us; this is a trait that most people with AS have. why do I mention all this? because of this article. it really touched me, and I thought other people should read it too -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Replies:
Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 08:29
Hello Baldjean. I am not only a proghead since 1975 but also a psychiatric nurse since 1990, the last 10 years I visited clients at home with ADHD, borderline-personality, schizophrenia, and a wide range of autism, including Asperger. Reading your words (including small talk) I would like to ask "how about humor?" Because one of the symptomes of Asperger is troubles with understanding the coherence between words and facial expressions from a person. Often words with humor (or sayings) are taken literally.
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BaldJean wrote:Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 08:47
I am into humor, but only very sophisticated and deadpan humor. many things other people laugh about simply escape me, though I may laugh along. simulation again ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 08:49
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and I often I don't get that a comment made about me is humorous and feel insulted then ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 08:55
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to give an example: I am very fond of Loriot, a German comedian, and find him incredibly funny, but I can't understand at all why Louis de Funès is funny ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 08:59
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this is incredibly funny for me: the translation is sometimes a bit faulty and could be better ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 09:02
| That's an interesting description. I've heard that Gary Numan has a form of it. I've often heard that it is a mild form of autism, but I don't know if that's right. I've also heard that it is an amplified form of introvertedness. I can relate to some of the aspects on the list. I can be very logical about things at times. And, although sometimes I'm ok in social situations, other times I just completely freak out. I especially can't stand the "let's go around the room and introduce ourselves" routine where I end up like the guy from the movie Broadcast News. I find the idea of having a vacation on a cruise ship abhorrent. And, although I love and care about people, I often find it a huge energy drain being around them. But, since I don't think it's right to just always cut and run, and go hide under a rock, I try to find ways to motivate myself to go - usually being glad I went afterwards. I went into science and engineering, and I love music composition as a hobby but struggle with executing what I write, so I'll spend years on it. I doubt I would be diagnosed with this, but I definitely relate to several descriptions in the article. I empathize with you on the more difficult aspects of life with this, but other aspects are certainly beneficial. The world is a much better place because you and others with Aspergers are in it. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 09:08
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and here the humor absolutely escapes me: ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 09:14
this is not necessarily so. I am extremely introverted, or at least used to be. Friede on the other hand used to be extremely extroverted. over the years (we have been together for 26 years now) we adjusted to each other, and I am no longer as introverted as I used to be and she no longer as extroverted; we (almost) met in the middle, though she still is the more extroverted one of us (or I the more introverted one)
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 10:29
You must love the British humor if you are into deadpan humor, the passive agressive undertone with a smile or pretending it's OK. The British typecasting is the best in the world, so how about the difficulty to understand this kind of humor, the distinctive blend of sarcasm that is hidden behind a wide range of contrasting facial expressions?
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 10:52
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It is great that you've lifted each other up. These things are often more complicated than what people perceive. I don't really know much about it, but your article helps. Regarding Gary Numan, I think Pleasure Principle was a very odd album, the genius being its relative simplicity but elegance in its composition with intricate use of space and percussion. People often say it is cold and devoid of emotion but I always found it to be quite the opposite. Of course, it is not prog! It is not prog! < just covering my butt there > |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 11:12
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The term asperger syndrome isn't officially used anymore. It's now considered part of ASD(autism spectrum disorder). I personally have no issues with it being used in this thread but I just thought I would mention that. I have done some(admittedly rather cursory)research on the topic. My brother who works in special ed(and for a while had students with ASD)insisted several years ago that I had it and my father suggested I had it also at one point. However, my brother is not a doctor and had no business trying to diagnose me or try to get me to admit I have it. I personally don't believe I do. I have never been diagnosed with it and no doctor has ever mentioned it to me. I had one therapist once who said I "might be on the bubble" but this was because her brother had it and she thought I spoke in a bit of a monotone voice(I really don't though and am not sure where she got that). I do however definitely feel like I have adhd and have been diagnosed with that in the past but I never really took the proper steps do to deal with it properly and so at almost fifty years old my life is still a mess. So on the one hand I can understand why my brother thought that(in his own way he was trying to help)but ultimately it led to tension between us. I'm not sure if he still feels that way or not(it's quite possible). Anyway, I apologize for the self indulgent rant(then again I am a prog fan :P ). Anyway, as far as I know ADHD is not really something you outgrow. I suppose it can be greatly reduced and it can definitely be managed but typically it's not something that disappears when you get older.
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 11:23
I
certainly love British humor, though I know I am missing something
there too. the sugarcoatings that many of the acrid remarks are given
perhaps fall flat on me, so the intended meanings of the remarks all the
more stand out for me. example: "what a beautiful dress you are
wearing, Lady Carnovan! too bad it was made for someone of a smaller
size". I can understand that this actually means "you are making
yourself a laughing stock because you don't fit into this dress, you fat
cow", but only because in this context (two women, of which one is
overweight, speak to each other) the first sentence (the sugarcoating)
doesn't make any sense to me because it is obvious the other woman does
not fit into the dress. I am not certain I made myself clear here; it is difficult to explain ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 11:33
I did not outgrow it, but I can control it with yoga. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 11:38
Excellent example, you made yourself clear, I love the word 'sugarcoatings'. In the Netherlands we have famous comedian Andre Van Duin, the same as with Louis De Funes, a wide range of facial expressions, perhaps you have heard of him?
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 11:41
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Interesting article, thanks for posting it. My son has Aspergers and has some of the traits mentioned e.g. clumsiness, the handwriting and the social skills, however he is extremely clever having just finished a Masters in Physics with Space Science. |
Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 11:47
I really feel sad to read this, is this because you didn't get the right support, or you don't want medication, or it's hard to accept support? I ask this because (I already told here at the Forum) I have visited lots of people with ADHD (and also autism)at home, in order to speak about guidelines for a more stable life, more protected from all the information that comes into your head daily ...
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 12:07
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I will respond in pm. I don't really want to go into details here. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 12:14
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Regarding an earlier comment, I love Gary Numan, though mostly I turn to Replicas and Telekon. I'm on the autism spectrum. My parents insisted that I had Asperger's whilst growing up due to my apparent inability to register other people's emotions, particularly their boredom when I was talking about things that I was passionate about. I was aware of their eyes glazing over, so I would try to express it in an even more passionate, excited manner, which I can see would be extremely irritating. Just because I was excited about something doesn't mean they should be, and people only have so much of an attention span. It gets tiring for people, and people want to focus on other things after a little while. I began to isolate myself more, and now I only go on-and-on at this forum, and keep my talking very sparse in social situations. I never like to be in public spaces and avoid socialising. I do have OCD, depression, and anxiety disorders (social and generalised), and I have scored high when taking online Asperger's Syndrome tests. One therapist did suggest that I have it, another said that we don't like to label people. I'm a perfectionist by nature despite my sloppy posts and I get very passionate and quite single-minded about certain things, but I'm interested in everything. Of those videos, I also only found the first one funny. I like comedy that has character, and I can identify with that situation. Being very socially awkward, a lot of my favourite humour deals with social awkwardness. I love with much British humour how they deal with socially awkward situations, and I like the dryness. I love so much British TV -- I grew up with it. I have something of the stereotypical British repressed nature about me and am very reserved in social situations and a fear of causing embarrassment both to myself and others. At this forum, I feel embarrassed almost every time I post, but I tend to force myself. I get really upset with myself when I feel like I can't convey an idea well. With my experience I should be a better communicator, but a stroke presented some challenges, and extreme insomnia. Interesting article, and a lot of that would refer to me (including sensations and sounds) and family members (my children are both on the spectrum). I think my understanding of others is quite good, but a big fear of mine involves not being understood, and I do feel this strong sense of disconnection/ alienation from others, and have a deep yearning to be part of a loving, compassionate community. Well there is PA, but I do want physical contact with people outside my kids and wife despite being scared of being in those situations. My work itself is very isolated (I do it from home mostly, and communicate with people via email). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 12:29
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The Wikipedia entry about AS says it is probably hereditary, and
this may be the case, but I think not exclusively so, and certainly not
in my case. Due to my ADHD I had lots of broken bones in my early
childhood. Some of these fractures led to extended hospital time during
the period kids learn their social skills, so I spent much of this time
in (relative) isolation, except for the occasional visit of a nurse, a
doctor or my parents or some other relatives, and I think this is what
caused it. As far as I know no-one in the
family had AS. There is a slight possibility that the eldest brother of
my father had it, but I only saw him once when I was 3 or 4 years old
when he visited my parents. He slept in my bed (we kids all had beds
that were much too big for us initially so we would fit into them when
we grew up) while I slept with my parents, and all I remember of him is
he had holes in his socks because he slept wearing them and I saw him
lying in my bed in the morning with his feet sticking out from under the
coverlet. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 12:30
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Well ... it's no wonder we like chatting with each other in this forum. Well, at least I know I like chatting with you folks. I know I'm a bit boneheaded sometimes. I think the version of Pleasure Principle I have includes a lot of tracks from both of those albums. It's like a huge extended version. And, yes. Friends Are Electric! Just finished the series ... The Good Life (Good Neighbors). That's a fave of mine. There are others (IT Crowd), but some I like can be bitingly sarcastic in the extreme. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 12:47
Certainly; having AS doesn't make you stupid at all. In fact many people with AS are highly intelligent, including Jean and me. We are just oddballs, especially when it comes down to social skills. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 12:56
Lots of my clients with ADHD told me that they often felt like black sheep, from an early age, it's so important not to think that this is true, it's just that other people didn't have the patience, knowledge or values to treat you with respect.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 13:00
I don't think you've been boneheaded, you bring up interesting notions. I always value people who cause me to think about things deeply, and you've done that. Replicas and I Robot by Alan Parsons Project were the first two albums as a kid that I can remember falling for. They really connected with me. As for British comedies, I love lots of the classics and more modern ones. Sometimes I go for the dark comedy ones: Peep Show, The League of Gentlemen, Brass Eye, Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, Inside No. 9 if it counts, Nathan Barley, Psychoville, Snuff Box, Toast of London, Misfits if it counts, Extras, The Thick of It, Look Around You, and People Like Us are some of my more modern favourities. Amongst the older ones, I love Yes Minister, and Yes PM, Allo Allo, and Black Adder, and The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin. I've definitely enjoyed The Good Life and IT Crowd ("I'm disabled" too). I did little poll/ topic on British comedies of the last 20 or so years a few years ago: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=107721&" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=107721& ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 13:06
It was a good thing my doctor recommended I should practice yoga; it certainly helped getting my ADHD under control. I still am at times a bit fidgety, but my yoga quickly calms me down. I am not worried because of having the Asperger syndrome. It is how it is, and I accept my weaknesses. And fortunately my kids and my friends understand me and my problems, even though I sometimes don't understand them (my friends and my kids), at least not emotionally. And this helps me a lot to overcome these problems. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 13:17
Thanks and ditto! My fave is when Jenn is faking Italian! :-) I will definitely check out some of the higher polling ones. Wonderful! |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 14:23
sorry, Friede and I are not familiar with Andre Van Duin ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 14:27
You are Lucky
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 14:56
I guess he is like Dieter "Didi" Hallervorden in Germany, a very successful comedian in Germany who usually leaves me completely cold. Friede says there was a time when he was good, but then he resorted to grimacing ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 15:30
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I spend all day inside my head. All I care about is art, but I'm always struggling insomnia, anxiety, headaches, and I'm one of those who refuse to see a doctor (I can't stand a lot of things, especially the useless system) and just handle things my own way; only worried about immediate consequences. I don't use abbreviations or acronyms for one, because I don't think its the same, and probably more misinterpreted as opposed to just giving examples, or at least a few characteristics. But even then, to say a person is "arrogant". It can't be 100% of the time, and people can change within minutes and over time. People are different depending on who is around, or if there's a second person around. I think I also don't use the terms because people like to give you a grocery chart of categorizations. I've gone from two extremes when it comes to social skills. From 22 to 31, I was backpacking off and on, for many reasons. To have something to write about, to have a better sample size to understand, artistic reasons/hopes, but I got burnt out for many reasons. In the last couple of years, I've found that I would rather avoid people. People get stuck in my head, replaying past conversations, creating future ones - its a mess upstairs. I only love music, movies, and comedy (and 99% of that was made before I was born) and try to fill my soul with nutrition. But even then, I get music stuck in my head and it drives me crazy. And I take all the substances I can to help alleviate some of them. I'm basically inside my tiny rented house 99% of the time, and the only time I leave is to go to my grocery market to get food and pills (nothing that starts with an 'anti' though). I stopped going to concerts 4 years ago (I do think its poetic that the last band was AMERICA) because of all those f**king phones, and bitches trying to sell beer during a band that plays acoustic-rock. I just think "I hate people and I never want to meet one again. The interesting ones are probably locked in their house, too, and I don't ever want to be betrayed" so I'm a hermit. If I read what I typed a week from now if I'm rested, I might have
responded differently, and I'm always looking to not necessarily
quantify the disparity, but to wonder what influences things,
personally, and then from proximity to the masses.... I could be more harsh and type for another hour in detail, but I have respect for the people on here, and I don't even want to ruin that. I know there's more than just text, but these damn screens depersonalize humanity, including our music (auto-tune? drum machine? And it seems like I'm the only one yelling about this, because no one wants to be socially ostracized) I spend a lot of time on many different message boards, and although I spend little time on here, I am probably most free because I think "They'll understand - they're progressive."
------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 15:48
No translation necessary, that is hilarious. To be honest, having visited Germany I didn't think Germans were interested in or even capable of such funny stuff. Goes to show the ignorance we all still have about each other. I'm sure you know this, also very funny but in a different way and at the expense of German people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGqJN1kAWwU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGqJN1kAWwU ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 16:18
Indeed, generally spoken. Some of his earlier parodies were rather funny, but from the late seventies onwards most of his output was fit for the feeble-minded. ------------- 
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Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 16:25
Yes, that is also in the case of German 'comedian' Ingrid Steeger, as a 13-14 year old kid I watched the German tv in The Netherlands, and was pleased with her sexy presence, although it was fun like Dutch Andre Van Duin, for the feeble-minded, nice term!
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 16:42
Well, Ingrid Steeger was part of the legendary comedy series "Klimbim", and while some of it was bad to mediocre there were also highlights, especially the Klimbim family with Ingrid Steeger being the precocious 14-year old girl Gabi with tooth gap and Elisabeth Volkmann the mother. And the two women certainly brought an element of sexiness into the series. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 16:49
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It's not my habit to post twice, but exceptions conform the rule. I'll be a bit more personal for the occasion, even at the risk of directing it to some wrong eyes: This article was a nice read, and I can recognize quite a few things: the problems with social interaction, learning by rote, difficulties with understanding body language, clumsiness, a prodigious memory. After a youth spent as a study object for shrinks who have beaten about the bush for years, starting with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Keilson" rel="nofollow - Hans Keilson (who had his hour of fame long afterwards, as a centennial) in my kindergarten years, I was diagnosed with Asperger at age 48 in the fall of 2007. When a friend of mine, of my generation, was diagnosed with Asperger in 2006, I felt an itch to read something about it, so I looked it up at Wikipedia and I found a match (85-100%) with my own condition. When I told this to him, he said that he already thought I was an Aspie as well. We have a few idiosyncracies in common. Four months later, another friend of ours, who works in the mental health care, suggested I should have myself tested on Asperger. At first I was reluctant, but after a few months, my wife had convinced me that this should be the right thing to do. I never regretted this, since it had a profound positive influence on my marriage, so I take it for granted that I am "the Beaver Autistic" for my daughter  .Edit… I got ninja'd twice while composing this post .
Klimbim… I remember the name, but the only other thing I remember from this series was some sexiness. My old folks watched some German telly now and then.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 16:53
We Aspies definitely have a knack of recognizing each other. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 23 2019 at 16:57
Exactly. I feel the same way
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 24 2019 at 04:57
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some movies have characters with the Asperger syndrome, though this is
usually not explicitly mentioned. for example: in the movie "The Fisher
King" the character Lydia Sinclair (played by Amanda Plummer) definitely
has the Asperger syndrome ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: June 24 2019 at 07:26
And how about Rainman? I consider it as a good movie to know more about autism, but a kind of 'Hollywood autism person', too many symptoms from different spectra of autism blended into one person with autism. Historical is the situation with the traffic light!
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: June 24 2019 at 07:58
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: July 01 2019 at 18:27
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I am fine -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Shiny globe
Date Posted: July 02 2019 at 09:41
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