What Was The First Prog Album
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Top 10s and lists
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122613
Printed Date: May 22 2025 at 14:29
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Topic: What Was The First Prog Album
Posted By: A Bard
Subject: What Was The First Prog Album
Date Posted: March 30 2020 at 12:07
| What was the first Album that is prog and not proto-prog. Is their an album that invented the basic of Prog rock or was it a slow evolution and the wasn't a clear jump from Proto prog to prog. So what is the first real prog album |
Replies:
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: March 30 2020 at 12:17
| http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69508 |
Posted By: A Bard
Date Posted: March 30 2020 at 12:38
| thanks |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 09:42
| That post is from ten years ago. People are allowed to mention it again. If newer members want to discuss it they can't because older posts tend to be closed and therefore no one can reply to them. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 10:05
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Sigh...interesting question...has been answered before... |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 10:38
I agree, unless something has changed in the definition of prog......the albums are the same. -------------   
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earlyprog wrote:Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 10:43
| Mine probably was Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. Still a great album to listen to! |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 10:44
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If it was good for 30 pages 10 years ago we can surely have a bit of a chat now. In The Court Of The Crimson King is the first fully formed prog album IMHO, lots of elements came before on some very good albums but this is ground zero. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 11:01
Caravan, Soft Machine, The Nice, The Moody Blues, Pink Floyd and Frank Zappa(or his representatives at least)are on their way to your house and want to have a word with you.   I agree KC had the first "official"(or the one that first gave the scene a lot of attention) prog album but it's certainly debatable if there was any "true" prog before it or not. For example on this site you will see many albums(and bands) that predate "court" that aren't considered proto prog.
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 11:03
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It’s basically a tie between In The Court Of The Crimson King and Hot Rats - both albums released on the same day, 10th of October 1969. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 11:38
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^ weirdly that also happened with The Nice - Ars Longa Vita Brevis and Procol Harum - Shine On Brightly , and both albums had side long pieces. I'm not really sure why Ars Long Vita Brevis is less prog than ELP- Tarkus? No one doubts that Tarkus is prog? Interestingly The Nice were put into 'Symphonic' here so there is a question as to whether they should even be considered to be 'Proto Prog' . From 1968 Keith Emerson and Procol were already embracing progressive ideas but perhaps without the 'finish' and professionalism that was to follow a year later. In The Court was massively important though. It not only raised the benchmark but also made it clear that 'all bets were off'. After Rolling Stone famously did a 360 about turn in their opinion of the album , prog rock was here and sticking around!
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 11:48
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It depends on how you define Prog, or how loose your parameters are. I tend to look to 1967 with albums such as Procol Harum's self-titled (actually, I'd sooner call 1968's Shine On Brightly Prog), or Moody Blues' Days of Future Passed, The Nice' Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack. Stuff like Hansson & Karlsson' Monument could be descrobed as prog, or Proto-Prog. I tend to put some 60s psych into the Prog umbrella such as 50 Foot Hose's Cauldron from 1967. And then there's Seventh Sons' Raga which is jammy, and was released in 1968, but is said to be from 1964. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 13:21
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Posted By: emisan
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 19:19
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Yes - Talk & Pink Floyd - The Division Bell. About 20 years ago. |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 10:08
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I just read through the entire 30 pages of the 2010 thread with this title and found it very informative (despite the tangents several personal conflicts took us on). I was too young, ignorant, and uneducated to participate in that discussion, but as AFlowerKingCrimson said, I see no harm in allowing/promoting newer members' take on the topic--there's always learning to experience. In case anyone has an interest in a longer version of an answer to the question, I've tried to summarize the 2010 discussion into a concise list of the albums offered at that time on this post on my blog, Prog Is Alive and Well in the 2st Century. https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/4177889769726575312/5361840915960305000 ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 11:34
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It's akin to the good old debate about which was the first Rock & Roll record. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_rock_and_roll#Views_on_the_first_rock_and_roll_record" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_rock_and_roll#Views_on_the_first_rock_and_roll_record All musical styles evolve out as what has gone before - with rock & roll it was primarily the blues, swing, jazz, rockabilly, etc, and prog as we all know evolved out of the psychedelia of the 60's, adding in a good dollop of blues, folk & jazz. The answer either both question is probably down to your own viewpoint. ------------- "Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour |
Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 11:37
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ITCOTCK was probably the first prog album of note as if ushering a new genre. ------------- "Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour |
Posted By: Valdez
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 13:36
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https://youtu.be/dNYk1fTVeVQ?si=wf8L9dXof-RNGnBn" rel="nofollow - Moondog https://youtu.be/E86phiV8w2M?si=vQzXCw_oMk4u-Kkc" rel="nofollow - Do your thing ------------- https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/maxwells-submarine |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 14:05
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It was a gradual evolution of course, but Prog as we understand it now ~ high musicianship, full use of organ & keyboards, classical and jazz incorporation, long compositions ~ for me it would have to be the Nice, Davjack in 1967 and ALVB in '68. Zappa, Floyd, and the Beach Boys come close, but no cigar. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 16:00
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 17:17
| Which is the first one listed in PA? |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 17:52
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Foxtrot is #2, not getting a result for #1 ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 18:13
| Do you mean Foxtrot by Genesis? That is 1972, right? I wonder what is the earliest Prog album listed on PA. That should be the one. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 19:20
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Well technically the first one listed is Miles Davis - First Miles in 1945 but we can discount that as Miles is here for his fusion albums and they start much later. The first appearance of something not jazz is Frank Zappa - Freak Out in 1966. 1967 is the first year with multiple entries Pink Floyd - Piper At The Gates Of Dawn The Moody Blues - Days Of Future Passed Procol Haram - A Whiter Shade Of Pale Traffic - Mr Fantasy I'm discounting entries with very few ratings ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: May 21 2025 at 21:59
| Right! I see the problem. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 22 2025 at 02:35
see the release dates above... and below... Sgt Pepper >> rel May 26 Disraeli Gears >> rel Nov 10 R U Exp >> rel May 12 The Doors (for The End) >> rel Jan 4 Forever Changes >> rel Nov 1 Surrealistic Pillow >> rel Feb 1 After Bathing at Baxter's >> Rel Nov 27 . ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: May 22 2025 at 02:43
Edit: didn't notice your reply and wrote basically the same as you
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Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: May 22 2025 at 04:39
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Edgard Varèse - Complete Works, Vol. 1 (released 1951) ------------- "My own response to King Crimson is one of quiet terror." - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: May 22 2025 at 05:40
| ^Can't recall that it actually rocks, but in that case it's the first ever rock-album too. Well done, Varèse! |
Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: May 22 2025 at 06:37
To be fair, the thread title is "What Was the First Prog Album", not "What Was the First Prog Rock Album". ------------- "My own response to King Crimson is one of quiet terror." - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 22 2025 at 07:42
Hi, I'm inclined to think that the idea/OP is not clear on that matter, and that the listener is not interested in music, but what others think! Maybe William J. Lederer was right! ... A Nation of Sheep? Heck, and that was 1961, right around the first mentions shown in this thread ... it says something about the time and place, that TODAY, we simply don't care about, or anymore! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: May 22 2025 at 10:08
Not a fan of Varèse, eh Pedro?  I admit his works are extremely demanding listens. Still I am surprised more people here aren't fans of his work...or at least familiar with it. ------------- "My own response to King Crimson is one of quiet terror." - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 22 2025 at 12:01
Hi, I had more Varese LP's at home (dad had massive collection that ended up near 3K) and knew it some way before my first LP of "art rock" ... ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition", though I was familiar with the hit song from their first album, but did not get it for at least a year ... I bought it after I got "Tarkus". You should be able to tell that music history is not an alien concept for me, like it is for most folks here! Like music is not an evolution, but has been about hits for 500 years ... interesting, and no radio or communicating devices in until some 100 years ago! Music travelled by scores, or someone's memory! It just speaks for the commercial mentality of the Internet that the record companies have been trying to instill into the masses ... and we continue supporting them, and trying to keep "progressive" afloat ... we're doomed to see it die, because we do not understand how they got to where they are accepted, or ever appreciated the anti-commercial invisible messages in the early days ... it was what made the American FM radio so huge in the 1970's before the Great American FM Radio Rape by the largest corporations in America ... heck, I think I heard that Texaco was the actual buyer/owner of the station when it was sold in 1980 or so ... just like all the others ... and the worst case that we allowed it to continue, when one conglomerate shut down KMET in LA and came up in the next morning as hew age mish mash stuff. Or better yet ... The Firesign Theater's sign of the double cross! And some think that SNL is funny. HAH! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |