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Topic: German drummers pollPosted By: BaldFriede
Subject: German drummers poll
Date Posted: April 16 2020 at 19:21
Germany has some great drummers, but most are not well-known to most proggers except for Jaki Liebezeit and perhaps Mani Neumeier, Christian Burchard or Jan Fride Wolbrandt. But there are many more. Listen to the example tracks (they are all definitely worth listening to) and choose. The drummers are listed with the artists they appear with in the example tracks in brackets.
Carsten Bohn (Frumpy):
Michael Bruchmann (Hoelderlin):
Christian Burchard (Embryo):
Curt Cress (Passport):
Joachim Heinz Ehrig, also know as Eroc (Grobschnitt):
Harald Grosskopf (Wallenstein):
Jo Koinzer (Brainstorm):
Jaki Liebezeit (Can):
Udo Lindenberg (Jean-Jacques Kravetz):
Wolfgang "Zabba" Lindner (Release Music Orchestra):
Mani Neumeier (Guru Guru):
Bernd Noske (Birth Control):
Lucky Schmidt (Aera):
Freddy Setz (Roman Bunka Band):
Jan Fride Wolbrandt (Kraan):
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Replies: Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 16 2020 at 20:08
My choice would be Marco Minnemann
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 16 2020 at 20:52
It could be so many of these for me. Right now I'm feeling a Christian Burchard groove (great percussionist).
Excellent poll per my tastes by the way. :D
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 16 2020 at 22:11
Don't know all of these, but damn is it hard o choose between Jaki and Mani.
I'll go the latter this time.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: April 16 2020 at 23:37
Jaki forever !
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 00:13
Jan Fride Wolbrandt
------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live
Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed.
Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… <
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 01:20
I forgot to tell you that multiple votes are possible. And do yourself the favour to listen to the tracks you don't know.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 02:55
Many very good drummers there but Jaki is the one who stands out as being totally distinctive and unique.
Followed by Jan Fride, Harald Grosskopf, Bernd Noske. And I agree that Marco Minnemann should be on the list (probably he's too young?).
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 03:18
Eroc, Liebezeit, Neumaier, Burchardt are my tops.
Eroc is Tops
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 03:25
No Zappi from Faust, or Klaus Dinger? True, progressive drummers! Liebezeit was a real pioneer from this list.
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 04:04
Bruchmann, Neumeier, Liebezeit........ how about Jurgen Rosenthal and Fritz Randow ?? Indeed, Germany has some talent.
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 04:17
Tom Ozric wrote:
how about Jurgen Rosenthal and Fritz Randow ?? Indeed, Germany has some talent.
Hadn't thought of these but you're right, both also great.
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 04:50
Lewian wrote:
Many very good drummers there but Jaki is the one who stands out as being totally distinctive and unique.
Followed by Jan Fride, Harald Grosskopf, Bernd Noske. And I agree that Marco Minnemann should be on the list (probably he's too young?).
Jaki certainly is unique, but so is Christian Burchard. You never know what he is going to do next, but it always goes with the flow and feels natural, and it grooves like hell. He is in my opinion one of the most underappreciated drummers here (together with John Densmore of The Doors).
I must admit I never heard the name Marco Minnemann before; probably because he is born 1970 and thus plays drums in an era that interests me less (I am focused on artists that started playing in the 60s and 70s). Fritz Randow (Eloy) and Jürgen Rosenthal (Sahara) are well-known to me and very appreciated too; I just didn't think of them when making this poll.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 04:54
^ Great drummers indeed !! These guys have a very ‘natural’ and intuitive style of playing which makes the music so great. I love those OTT technical Death Metal drummers too - all flash and bang, and supersonic feet !!
Posted By: Junges
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 05:11
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
My choice would be Marco Minnemann
First name I thought of upon reading the thread's title. It would also be my choice.
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Posted By: Grubert
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 05:21
What about Klaus Dinger? Is he the greatest of all?
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 05:49
Once again: If you don't know any of these drummers listen to the example tracks; it's really worth it. There are a few I especially like, for example the track with Freddy Setz. Some great communication between Roman Bunka and Freddy Setz in that track, and it also has my favourite guitar solo of all times (the one that starts in the blues section of the track). Or the example track for Christian Burchard; his drumming is so very, for lack of a better word, "relaxed" in that track.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 06:13
BaldFriede wrote:
Once again: If you don't know any of these drummers listen to the example tracks; it's really worth it. There are a few I especially like, for example the track with Freddy Setz. Some great communication between Roman Bunka and Freddy Setz in that track, and it also has my favourite guitar solo of all times (the one that starts in the blues section of the track). Or the example track for Christian Burchard; his drumming is so very, for lack of a better word, "relaxed" in that track.
Thanks for the links and I have listened to some of them. It is also worth it to watch/listen the link I posted for Marco. What did you think?
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 06:21
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Once again: If you don't know any of these drummers listen to the example tracks; it's really worth it. There are a few I especially like, for example the track with Freddy Setz. Some great communication between Roman Bunka and Freddy Setz in that track, and it also has my favourite guitar solo of all times (the one that starts in the blues section of the track). Or the example track for Christian Burchard; his drumming is so very, for lack of a better word, "relaxed" in that track.
Thanks for the links and I have listened to some of them. It is also worth it to watch/listen the link I posted for Marco. What did you think?
I am currently listening to Steven Wilson's second solo album "Grace For Drowning", on which Marco Minnemann plays the drums. The drumming is indeed excellent. The album itself is a mixed bag; I dislike the singing (at least on first hearing; I might get used to it), and the sound of the keyboards is just horrible. And some of the musical changes feel forced and abrupt.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 06:32
^The link I sent was Marco playing his solo material. On that song he played all the instruments. He has 18? solo records and all are superb, better than most side projects he has been involved with.
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 06:34
^ Didn’t Marco have a stint in Necrophagist ??
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 06:35
Yes
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 06:45
^ Their music is insanely technical. Love that sh*t !!
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 06:49
BaldFriede wrote:
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Once again: If you don't know any of these drummers listen to the example tracks; it's really worth it. There are a few I especially like, for example the track with Freddy Setz. Some great communication between Roman Bunka and Freddy Setz in that track, and it also has my favourite guitar solo of all times (the one that starts in the blues section of the track). Or the example track for Christian Burchard; his drumming is so very, for lack of a better word, "relaxed" in that track.
Thanks for the links and I have listened to some of them. It is also worth it to watch/listen the link I posted for Marco. What did you think?
I am currently listening to Steven Wilson's second solo album "Grace For Drowning", on which Marco Minnemann plays the drums. The drumming is indeed excellent. The album itself is a mixed bag; I dislike the singing (at least on first hearing; I might get used to it), and the sound of the keyboards is just horrible. And some of the musical changes feel forced and abrupt.
Marco does not play on "Grace for Drowning" Nic France does.
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 06:51
Tom Ozric wrote:
^ Their music is insanely technical. Love that sh*t !!
Have you heard The Aristocrats? Technical but somewhat catchy.
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 07:02
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Once again: If you don't know any of these drummers listen to the example tracks; it's really worth it. There are a few I especially like, for example the track with Freddy Setz. Some great communication between Roman Bunka and Freddy Setz in that track, and it also has my favourite guitar solo of all times (the one that starts in the blues section of the track). Or the example track for Christian Burchard; his drumming is so very, for lack of a better word, "relaxed" in that track.
Thanks for the links and I have listened to some of them. It is also worth it to watch/listen the link I posted for Marco. What did you think?
I am currently listening to Steven Wilson's second solo album "Grace For Drowning", on which Marco Minnemann plays the drums. The drumming is indeed excellent. The album itself is a mixed bag; I dislike the singing (at least on first hearing; I might get used to it), and the sound of the keyboards is just horrible. And some of the musical changes feel forced and abrupt.
Marco does not play on "Grace for Drowning" Nic France does.
Oy yes, sorry. I misread the information in Wikipedia; Marco Minnemann played drums on the tour for that album, not the album itself. I am now listening to the third solo album of Steven Wilson, "The Raven that Refused to Sing and other Stories", on which he does play.
-------------
BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 07:07
^ .....and you should appreciate it !! And with Nick Beggs on Bass / Chapman Stick - yes, he from Kajagoogoo !!
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 07:08
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
^ Their music is insanely technical. Love that sh*t !!
Have you heard The Aristocrats? Technical but somewhat catchy.
Not as yet. Have heard of them though.
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 07:35
Jaki.
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 07:48
Hi,
Wow ... a poll with my heart in mind!
Jaki, Mani, Christian and Eroc ... all of them have done magnificent stuff and Eroc has gone so far as to remaster the Grobschnitt albums and make them even better, and showing what a drummer can do ... something that has been a rarity for some time.
Jaki is probably the best and the one that knows how to use touches in quiet moments ... Mani, I specially like when he said he doesn't play drums for no bass player ... he's playing for the guitar player! It shows in really early Guru Guru with Ax Genrich. Christian was in a band where the mixes of music were the important part and being able to play different things and move back and forth was important ... and he does it very well.
And I do wish that people listened to these things with a much more open ear ... I would even have included the two drummers in Amon Duul 2 that gave the whole thing such a sonic sound in the early days ... and even in that clip from Portugal many years later, the band is comfortable with 2 drummers and they both did great.
Marcus, for me, is already into a completely different era in music and the IMPROVISATIONS that most of these drummers have done in the past, and with, is nowhere near the quality of the material that Marcus has shown, in playing with people whose music is so detailed as to almost prevent any extra touch or movement ... but it is to his credit that he can make them better and not bring them down with just a counting of the beat and the same snare drum touch on the 4th for example. The good drummers, do not need to rely on a snare to keep time! It was even said once, that Moonie did his "clock" by the cymbals!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 08:18
It's between Joachim Heinz Ehrig and Michael Bruchmann.
Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 16:37
Alex Holzwarth doesn't rate at all?
------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 17:14
Not familiar with all of these but Jaki is one of my favourite drummers. Love Burchard too.
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 17:28
johnobvious wrote:
Alex Holzwarth doesn't rate at all?
I only named drummers I am familiar with, and I never heard the name Alex Holzwarth before. I looked him up, and it appears he is a prog metal drummer. That explains why I didn't know his name because prog metal is not my cup of tea.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 17:50
BaldFriede wrote:
johnobvious wrote:
Alex Holzwarth doesn't rate at all?
I only named drummers I am familiar with, and I never heard the name Alex Holzwarth before. I looked him up, and it appears he is a prog metal drummer. That explains why I didn't know his name because prog metal is not my cup of tea.
Yeah, he really does not fit into this list at all, so it might seem strange to even ponder the absence, let alone be saddened by it, but then the fact that John Obvious didn't list any favourites of the list indicates that he probably is not familiar with what is on the list. I didn't know who that drummer was, but the Rhapsody of Fire and the power metal like music is not my thing. That said, perhaps johnobvious is not just referring to the poll, but to the general discussion, and no one else brought him up in the thread which he found a little sad.
I personally generally only question any absence if it would seem an obvious omission based on the choices or what I know of the poll starter's tastes. I would find it weird when I'd do a poll of my favourites, and someone would come in, not mention any of my choices, and then get upset that I didn't list their pick,or "Ask where the hell is so-and-so?" even though it didn't fit in with my choices, there was no good reason to think I would know or like it, and that person was clearly ignorant about what I listed. It can be really weird. In those cases, I think it's better to make your own list. I've been inspired by other polls to make my own that fit my tastes. It's a weird and often irrational expectation that comes up again and again from certain mindsets.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 18:51
ALex and his brother were the rhythm section for Seiges Even and calling them Prog Metal is a bit of a stretch. Just listen to Navigating by the Stars and you will appreciate him. Just saying, not trying to say the others aren't good. And I have not heard Rhapsody of Fire. I know he is their drummer.
------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 18:52
Tom Ozric wrote:
^ .....and you should appreciate it !! And with Nick Beggs on Bass / Chapman Stick - yes, he from Kajagoogoo !!
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 19:05
johnobvious wrote:
ALex and his brother were the rhythm section for Seiges Even and calling them Prog Metal is a bit of a stretch. Just listen to Navigating by the Stars and you will appreciate him. Just saying, not trying to say the others aren't good. And I have not heard Rhapsody of Fire. I know he is their drummer.
I'd heard some of that album before, he seems a proficient drummer -- nice fills. Reminds me a bit of the Neal Peart school of drumming from listening to a bit more now, but maybe I'm off-base.
While I knew most on the poll (almost too many I like), but only voted for Christian Burchard so far, I checked out one I didn't, and I don't recall knowing, the Release Music Orchestra track with Wolfgang "Zabba" Lindner. I find his drumming really tasty and tasteful, and he'll get a vote from me.
EDIT: By the way, I misspoke, and should not have claimed that he did not fit this list at all, I mean I said I barely knew him, so such a claim would be silly. I just really meant that the kind of music I knew him to be involved with seemed very different from the Krautrock-oriented, and often jazzy, music of the list. Musically he may have been inspired by acts like Birth Control, and whatever...
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 17 2020 at 19:36
verslibre wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
^ .....and you should appreciate it !! And with Nick Beggs on Bass / Chapman Stick - yes, he from Kajagoogoo !!
Iona.
Kajagoogoo 😜 .......and indeed, Iona, and The Mute Gods, and Lifesigns etc. and I do like Kaja a lot. Fun and somewhat quirky and complex as far as Synth-Pop goes.
Posted By: axeman
Date Posted: April 19 2020 at 18:03
No question. It's Jaki. Here was a machine.
------------- -John
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 00:59
Jurgen of course
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 01:06
Didn't realise it till I read it on Wiki , that Jurgen was the German Neil Peart as he also wrote lyrics for the albums. Incredible drummer.
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 02:56
Impossible to choose between Burchard, Jaki and Mani...but I voted for the former. Another German drummer who often gets overlooked, even within the band, is Peter Leopold. That guy had the most unique sound ever.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 03:51
multiple votes are possible, so feel free to give Christian, Jaki and Mani a vote each
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 03:54
Really, how can you choose one over the other ?........
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 08:42
"A guy came to me and said: `You must play monotonous!'"
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 09:29
Jaki by a country mile......Jurgen is another fav of mine starting with his time with Scorpions and my fav album Fly To the Rainbow, excellent drumming on that album, then later on with Eloy....I think he was also part of Dawn Patrol with Uli Jon Roth.
Another (to me) excellent German drummer not on the list is Wolfgang Dziony, another Scorpions drummer played on first Scorpions album Lonesome Crow.
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Posted By: zeuhl1
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 11:28
Jaki by several lengths. Mani Neumeier second. No Klaus Dinger? He'd be my third choice. Peter Leopold would be my fourth.
I think there are two schools of German drummers-ones who are technically brilliant a la Peart and Bruford, and ones where the eal strength is in their ability to play insanely well while 'in the pudding' and shift with the cosmos like the four guys above do very well.