Why do people think that they have to punish the Flower Kings for releasing double albums? Flower Power, Stardust We Are, Unfold the Future ... it seems to me that people automatically cry "filler!" and give the albums one star less.

Come on ... these albums don't cost twice as much as normal albums ... part of what they put on those discs can be called a "bonus" ... how can you rate a band less for giving you more music?

I am not very impressed by The Flower Kings ( have Retropolis), but you have a point with the double albums. Creating a double album is doubling the critics.

A reviewer should imagin the double album as one album. Probably the rates would go up.

I agree with you Mike.I applaud TFK prodigious and prolific output.And I find very little "filler" on their albums,but that might be because I am a fan.

In their lifespan TFK has released more quality music than some established prog acts released in 20-30 years.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: I didn't like Retropolis when I first "met" the Flower Kings ... but now that I'm familiar with more 70s/80s prog, I like it VERY much.

Retropolis was my very first exposure to TFK.I happen to think it's a great album,and it really sparked my interest in the band.

Personally, I feel some of TFK's albums would be better if they were more focused. It's not about value for money, it's about tracks sounding bloated by rambling instrumentals which don't go anywhere.

I don't mean that as a general comment about TFK, I do like their music. I just feel sometimes less would be more.

Besides his work with The Flower Kings,if you throw in his work with Transatlantic,his solo work,The Tangent,Kaipa,and all the numerous appearances and contributions he has made on other albums Roine Stolt is one of the most prolific musicians/songwriters in prog right now.

^ I think Iron Maiden has far more "filler" Than TFK. Every single note on those albums serves a purpose, I just can't imagine an album like Unfold the Future one note shorter at all

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ The Flower Kings don't release more than 1 album each year.

a bit exagerating but double albums i rate as two albums AND roine stolt is also on alot of solo projects

King of Loss wrote: ^ I think Iron Maiden has far more "filler" Than TFK. Every single note on those albums serves a purpose, I just can't imagine an album like Unfold the Future one note shorter at all

well every note on FRANCES THE MUTE serves a purpose and yet there are people that think it is just mindless noise ...and if i critizise some band someone always go naggin on maiden...im getting a bit tired of that. 

Citanul wrote: maidenrulez wrote: and if i critizise some band someone always go naggin on maiden...im getting a bit tired of that.  Well you have to admit that with your user name, that's always going to happen.

Yes, that might have sometihng to do with it.

But he can counterbalance it with his avatar and signature.

Citanul wrote: maidenrulez wrote: and if i critizise some band someone always go naggin on maiden...im getting a bit tired of that.  Well you have to admit that with your user name, that's always going to happen.

its a bit childish...if i see someone that has a rush album or whatever in its signature or avatar then i dont go bashing on rush...its like AH if i critizise your favorite band then im going to critizise yours

MikeEnRegalia wrote: I'm listening to the song "Retropolis" right now ... wow, I hadn't really noticed the Zappaesque elements before. They're very aparent here ... Zappa meet's Neo-Prog - meet's authentic 70s.

Retropolis is not bad, but the "hit" songs like "There is more to this World" or "Judas Kiss" are a bit too simple for me. Forgive me the word, I like the guitar work, the keyboards and even the voice, but the songs miss a certain emotion and strange movements.

That applies the same for the songs I have heard from Transatlantic. They are OK, but very occasionally I choose to listen to them or the Flower Kings.

I am not so familiar with Zappa, so I cannot make a proper judgement. My feeling is however too much credit for the Kings.

Thanks for the tip.

I should check out Zappa. Frankly I have no idea what I can expect from him. So an open starter on his music.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Another great album to start with is Roxy & Elsewhere.

What about Hot Rats?

My opnion of TFK is not that good!

I started listening to Back In The World of Adventures amd Retropolis after I saw the Retropolis tour and a few months before Stardust We Are was released! It certainly was not a good concert (Others assured me that it was an off night for then because other concerts they had seen were so much better! OK but those guys are huge fans , but whatever!!!)

But back then Swedish (Scandinavians in general) groups were really hailed as prog saviours , so a lot of hype was created in the prog world. There were releases by this second wave of groups such as Twin Age, TFK , White Willow, Galleon , Simon Says, Catweazle etc..... all hailed as masterpieces !!!!     I found just one of those was really worthy : RAVANA! Oh! And Hoyry Koyne too!!

I always thought of TFK as way too derivative of 70's prog . Anekdoten and Anglagard were also derivative of prog giants , but somehow their personalities appeared through their influences - which I certainly not found anything personal on Retropolis: every second reminded me of someone else! Stardust We Are was more of the same but a double album with some real long soloing but no real aim other than just the lenghty tracks as their real goals I thought.

Then Roine Stolt started to join a whole bunch of projects and Groups (Kaipa, Transatlantic etc.....) the sheer amount of music he belted out was all watered down to last a maximum minutes with fewest amount of ideas possible! I read somewhere that they (TFK or Transatlantic) were really proud at one time to have made a 1 hour track > By that time I had stopped listening to them for quite a while, and the only thing I  heard from them since was what others played to me. I rented once space revolver to see if anything had changed , but I never got to the courage of writing the review , as I fet I had nothing positive to say about it!

Just my opinion , for what it's worth!

Chant Trane wrote: My opnion of TFK is not that good! I started listening to Back In The World of Adventures amd Retropolis after I saw the Retropolis tour and a few months before Stardust We Are was released! It certainly was not a good concert (Others assured me that it was an off night for then because other concerts they had seen were so much better! OK but those guys are huge fans , but whatever!!!) But back then Swedish (Scandinavians in general) groups were really hailed as prog saviours , so a lot of hype was created in the prog world. There were releases by this second wave of groups such as Twin Age, TFK , White Willow, Galleon , Simon Says, Catweazle etc..... all hailed as masterpieces !!!!     I found just one of those was really worthy : RAVANA! Oh! And Hoyry Koyne too!! I always thought of TFK as way too derivative of 70's prog . Anekdoten and Anglagard were also derivative of prog giants , but somehow their personalities appeared through their influences - which I certainly not found anything personal on Retropolis: every second reminded me of someone else! Stardust We Are was more of the same but a double album with some real long soloing but no real aim other than just the lenghty tracks as their real goals I thought.   Then Roine Stolt started to join a whole bunch of projects and Groups (Kaipa, Transatlantic etc.....) the sheer amount of music he belted out was all watered down to last a maximum minutes with fewest amount of ideas possible! I read somewhere that they (TFK or Transatlantic) were really proud at one time to have made a 1 hour track > By that time I had stopped listening to them for quite a while, and the only thing I  heard from them since was what others played to me. I rented once space revolver to see if anything had changed , but I never got to the courage of writing the review , as I fet I had nothing positive to say about it!   Just my opinion , for what it's worth!

Wow,Sean,don't hold back now.

Tell us how you really feel

^ he certainly used many words to say "I don't like them". I understand his reasons ... I think it depends on whether you think that innovation is everything.

I don't think so ... I can listen to an album like Wobbler - Hinterland and enjoy it ... they didn't intend to be innovative, they tried to reproduce the 70s.

It's the same with the Flower Kings ... they know they sound like Genesis sometimes ... they don't care, and neither do I.

Are you trying to say that a band is Neo-Prog until they manage to make an album which is free from 70s influences?

Sorry, Neo-Prog is something completely different.

^ I'm not offended, I'm just saying that Neo-Prog is clearly defined as a genre and the Flower Kings are not such a band. They - and Spock's Beard for that matter - are often mis-labelled as Neo-Prog.

TheProgtologist wrote: Chant Trane wrote: My opnion of TFK is not that good! I started listening to Back In The World of Adventures amd Retropolis after I saw the Retropolis tour and a few months before Stardust We Are was released! It certainly was not a good concert (Others assured me that it was an off night for then because other concerts they had seen were so much better! OK but those guys are huge fans , but whatever!!!) But back then Swedish (Scandinavians in general) groups were really hailed as prog saviours , so a lot of hype was created in the prog world. There were releases by this second wave of groups such as Twin Age, TFK , White Willow, Galleon , Simon Says, Catweazle etc..... all hailed as masterpieces !!!!     I found just one of those was really worthy : RAVANA! Oh! And Hoyry Koyne too!! I always thought of TFK as way too derivative of 70's prog . Anekdoten and Anglagard were also derivative of prog giants , but somehow their personalities appeared through their influences - which I certainly not found anything personal on Retropolis: every second reminded me of someone else! Stardust We Are was more of the same but a double album with some real long soloing but no real aim other than just the lenghty tracks as their real goals I thought.   Then Roine Stolt started to join a whole bunch of projects and Groups (Kaipa, Transatlantic etc.....) the sheer amount of music he belted out was all watered down to last a maximum minutes with fewest amount of ideas possible! I read somewhere that they (TFK or Transatlantic) were really proud at one time to have made a 1 hour track > By that time I had stopped listening to them for quite a while, and the only thing I  heard from them since was what others played to me. I rented once space revolver to see if anything had changed , but I never got to the courage of writing the review , as I fet I had nothing positive to say about it!   Just my opinion , for what it's worth! Wow,Sean,don't hold back now. Tell us how you really feel

Well sometimes I get blasted for not explaining why I do not like something!

And when I do explain I get blasted into space for it!

You guys are sure as hell hard to please!!!

I am very impressed with the Flower Kings, I found myself getting all their studio albums. Almost all my reviews from them are 4-star reviews.

However, they are not perfect (I also think that they would make better albums if they shortened the songs or removed filler). Take for example, 'The Truth Will Set You Free' ... its first 15-20 minutes of the song are perfect and explored the main themes very well. But in the last 10 minutes, they stretch the song with some instrumentals and finished it with an out of place ballad-like passage. I think that song would have been as good as 'awaken' or 'Supper's Ready' if they had shortened the song a bit. I think that their only perfect LONG songs are 'Devil's Playground' and 'I am the Sun pt1'. Another weak point are the weak material put in great discs such as 'Stardust We Are disc 2', 'Flower Power', 'Adam and Eve(Driver's seat bores me)', and of course 'Unfold the Future'. If they write shorter albums like Yes or other legendary bands, they might get some 5-star reviews from me because when the music is good ... it is REALLY GOOD.

I also find this band one of the most creative ones of the Progressive rock revival. While I agree that their first albums were very influenced by Genesis and Yes, they at least had many unique things such as the guitar playing and the 'prettiness' of the first disc. The second half of the band from Space Revolver onwards is the real creative force of the Flowers. They fuse so many styles that they end up with a very unique sound that sounds like nobody else.

Flower Power and Rainmaker are the weakest ones.

Zitro wrote: I am very impressed with the Flower Kings, I found myself getting all their studio albums. Almost all my reviews from them are 4-star reviews. However, they are not perfect (I also think that they would make better albums if they shortened the songs or removed filler). Take for example, 'The Truth Will Set You Free' ... its first 15-20 minutes of the song are perfect and explored the main themes very well. But in the last 10 minutes, they stretch the song with some instrumentals and finished it with an out of place ballad-like passage. I think that song would have been as good as 'awaken' or 'Supper's Ready' if they had shortened the song a bit. I think that their only perfect LONG songs are 'Devil's Playground' and 'I am the Sun pt1'. Another weak point are the weak material put in great discs such as 'Stardust We Are disc 2', 'Flower Power', 'Adam and Eve(Driver's seat bores me)', and of course 'Unfold the Future'. If they write shorter albums like Yes or other legendary bands, they might get some 5-star reviews from me because when the music is good ... it is REALLY GOOD.

That's exactly what I mean ... you punish them for the bonus tracks.

BTW: I wouldn't criticise your ratings though ... but the reasoning is odd. You're saying "Please, dear Flower Kings, give us only 45 minutes on the next disc, so that we can rate you 5 stars".

Flower king´s music is generic-prog. It sure is very diverse, but its diversity is generic as well. Most of its music seems like they intentionaly want songs to be diverse and full of diferent shapes and melodies. In a way it works. They are very good at doing different melodies. Despite all those melodies don´t demand too much of one´s attention.

However, I can listen to them for hours in the background, since it´s harmless music.

The fact that they issue double albums and triple albums is a good thing: "More ambiental prog for less" ¡¡¡ 

Man Overboard wrote: eduardossc wrote: Flower king´s music is generic-prog. It sure is very diverse, but its diversity is generic as well. Most of its music seems like they intentionaly want songs to be diverse and full of diferent shapes and melodies. In a way it works. They are very good at doing different melodies. Despite all those melodies don´t demand too much of one´s attention. However, I can listen to them for hours in the background, since it´s harmless music. The fact that they issue double albums and triple albums is a good thing: "More ambiental prog for less" ¡¡¡  Bite me.   Just cuz you don't get it doesn't mean there isn't anything to get!

I´m sure you´ve heard "Inferno" by Metamorfosi. ...Well, that one does demand every single second of my attention and has never received 1/10 of the attention The Flower Kings have.

 Flower Kings somehow sound very predictable. The guitar melodies and tones is too conventional always. The voices don´t offer any particular personality. They are usually flat. When I want to listen to PROG. I want it to be real prog, not "intentional prog".

I'm sure that the majority of this community is open minded ... think positive.

BTW: I don't mind if people narrow themselves down to a particular genre, or decade or whatever. What I don't like is when they try to impose their view onto others ...

 Well. I don´t blame you for hating me. I know my comments are not easily welcome.

 However, I don´t consider myself a narrow-minded person as far as music concerns. You would be surprised at the range of different kinds of music I get to listen and pay attention to. I´ve listened to this NEO prog guys with as much enthusiasm as with any classic band many years ago. You can´t blame me for not finding it awesome.

 Also, I´m not trying to impose my view to others. I´m only trying to be explicit on what Flower Kings make me feel. If you prefer to read simple one-line-uncompromised-reviews, then just ask for that. Next time I´ll just say something like:

  "They are very good, but not my cup of tea"  

"However, I don´t consider myself a narrow-minded person as far as music concerns. You would be surprised at the range of different kinds of music I get to listen and pay attention to. I´ve listened to this NEO prog guys with as much enthusiasm as with any classic band many years ago. You can´t blame me for not finding it awesome."\

You don't have to apologize for not loving the Flower Kings -- there are others on this forum who are bored by backward-looking hackwork as well.

Sean Trane wrote: TheProgtologist wrote: Chant Trane wrote: My opnion of TFK is not that good! I started listening to Back In The World of Adventures amd Retropolis after I saw the Retropolis tour and a few months before Stardust We Are was released! It certainly was not a good concert (Others assured me that it was an off night for then because other concerts they had seen were so much better! OK but those guys are huge fans , but whatever!!!) But back then Swedish (Scandinavians in general) groups were really hailed as prog saviours , so a lot of hype was created in the prog world. There were releases by this second wave of groups such as Twin Age, TFK , White Willow, Galleon , Simon Says, Catweazle etc..... all hailed as masterpieces !!!!     I found just one of those was really worthy : RAVANA! Oh! And Hoyry Koyne too!! I always thought of TFK as way too derivative of 70's prog . Anekdoten and Anglagard were also derivative of prog giants , but somehow their personalities appeared through their influences - which I certainly not found anything personal on Retropolis: every second reminded me of someone else! Stardust We Are was more of the same but a double album with some real long soloing but no real aim other than just the lenghty tracks as their real goals I thought.   Then Roine Stolt started to join a whole bunch of projects and Groups (Kaipa, Transatlantic etc.....) the sheer amount of music he belted out was all watered down to last a maximum minutes with fewest amount of ideas possible! I read somewhere that they (TFK or Transatlantic) were really proud at one time to have made a 1 hour track > By that time I had stopped listening to them for quite a while, and the only thing I  heard from them since was what others played to me. I rented once space revolver to see if anything had changed , but I never got to the courage of writing the review , as I fet I had nothing positive to say about it!   Just my opinion , for what it's worth! Wow,Sean,don't hold back now. Tell us how you really feel Well sometimes I get blasted for not explaining why I do not like something! And when I do explain I get blasted into space for it! You guys are sure as hell hard to please!!!

Sean,I wasn't blasting you at all.I was joking around.

You don't like TFK,that's fine with me.

I usually like all the tracks by TFK. It lets them explore different possibilities with their music. I wouldn't want less music on any of the albums I've heard. Its easy to skip tracks if one wants.

As for TFK copying 70's Prog...........wheres the crime, there's no direcyt copy anyway, just a similar style to Genesis and Yes sometimes.

TheProgtologist wrote: Sean Trane wrote: TheProgtologist wrote: Chant Trane wrote: My opnion of TFK is not that good! I started listening to Back In The World of Adventures amd Retropolis after I saw the Retropolis tour and a few months before Stardust We Are was released! It certainly was not a good concert (Others assured me that it was an off night for then because other concerts they had seen were so much better! OK but those guys are huge fans , but whatever!!!) But back then Swedish (Scandinavians in general) groups were really hailed as prog saviours , so a lot of hype was created in the prog world. There were releases by this second wave of groups such as Twin Age, TFK , White Willow, Galleon , Simon Says, Catweazle etc..... all hailed as masterpieces !!!!     I found just one of those was really worthy : RAVANA! Oh! And Hoyry Koyne too!! I always thought of TFK as way too derivative of 70's prog . Anekdoten and Anglagard were also derivative of prog giants , but somehow their personalities appeared through their influences - which I certainly not found anything personal on Retropolis: every second reminded me of someone else! Stardust We Are was more of the same but a double album with some real long soloing but no real aim other than just the lenghty tracks as their real goals I thought.   Then Roine Stolt started to join a whole bunch of projects and Groups (Kaipa, Transatlantic etc.....) the sheer amount of music he belted out was all watered down to last a maximum minutes with fewest amount of ideas possible! I read somewhere that they (TFK or Transatlantic) were really proud at one time to have made a 1 hour track > By that time I had stopped listening to them for quite a while, and the only thing I  heard from them since was what others played to me. I rented once space revolver to see if anything had changed , but I never got to the courage of writing the review , as I fet I had nothing positive to say about it!   Just my opinion , for what it's worth! Wow,Sean,don't hold back now. Tell us how you really feel Well sometimes I get blasted for not explaining why I do not like something! And when I do explain I get blasted into space for it! You guys are sure as hell hard to please!!! Sean,I wasn't blasting you at all.I was joking around. You don't like TFK,that's fine with me.

I know you did not !! And I think I am thick-skinned enough , to not having taken offence , had you meant to!

Actually your answer really made me laugh, because I thought I could've written an essay of all the reasons why I do not appreciate them.

James Hill wrote: Dont get me wrong The Flower Kings play a good brand of symphonic prog but I dont like Ronnie Stolts vocals half the time.On the double albums like Stardust We Are or Flower Power I get sick of his vocals.I will say this vocals are always a matter of opinion.

It's hard to deny that Stolt is indeed a weak vocalist. He has or  had a second singer in the band who is much better.

James Hill wrote: Dont get me wrong The Flower Kings play a good brand of symphonic prog but I dont like Ronnie Stolts vocals half the time.On the double albums like Stardust We Are or Flower Power I get sick of his vocals.I will say this vocals are always a matter of opinion.

It's just a little nit-pick but his name is Roine Stolt.