is Neil Peart the best drummer ever ?
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Topic: is Neil Peart the best drummer ever ?
Posted By: Guests
Subject: is Neil Peart the best drummer ever ?
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 08:32
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is Neil Peart the best drummer ever ? I think he is |
Replies:
Posted By: Marc Baum
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 08:35
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Not ever, but in prog together with Bill Bruford.
------------- "All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 09:17
| At least one of the very best. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 09:29
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He's a great drummer, but not the best. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 09:48
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He's very very good, not sure about the best...we get into discussing
do you mean "best" or "favourite" both of which end up being largely
subjective. Personally, Bruford is probably my favourite.....but I think Carl Palmer and Billy Cobham may be even better technically. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:04
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I think he is probably the best rock drummer I have ever heard. I cant recall hearing Phil Collins, Bill Bruford or Carl Palmer play anything that would be beyond Pearts capability. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: harpua13
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:18
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Bruford, and it isn't even close. there are also a good dozen jazz drumers who are better than Peart, but still being in the top 10-15 ever is nothing to be ashamed of.
------------- And so with Gods and men, the sheep remain inside their pen... |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:39
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Rush - very over-rated ergo Neil Peart over-rated Moving Pictures No.11 - Human Equation No 54 Obviously somethings wrong |
Posted By: Erpland316
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:40
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He is one of the best, but I think there are better... Danny Carey of Tool Bill Bruford of King Crimsom Jon Theodore of The Mars Volta Technically speaking Mike Portnoy might be the best, although there are drummers that I appreciate a lot more than him. Billy Cobham of Mahavishnu Orchestra
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Posted By: Korova
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:46
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he might be a good drummer, but far from being the best...
------------- La Speranza della coscienza è forza La Speranza del sentimento è schiavitù La Speranza del corpo è malattia (G.I. Gurdjieff) |
Posted By: proger
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:51
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no
------------- ...live for tomorrow... |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:52
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He's da man! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:56
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Great drummer.... Super fast... and a great lyricist too! The things that Neil Peart can do is superhuman....
But to call the best ever.... Bill Bruford might be the best Prog dummer of his era.... Phil Collins from 1975 to 1980 was doing some amazing things as well..
Carl Palmer can be sloppy at times could match Neil speed wise
But Two amazing drummers Billy Cobham and Jack DeJohnette are two amazing drummers.... The latter being my all time favorite...
Charles ------------- G'day |
Posted By: Xymphony
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:22
| No, far from being the best... |
Posted By: FishyMonkey
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:29
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My favorite drummer of all time is Steve Gadd. Neil Peart is close to him, but not quite. Danny Carey is also phenomenal. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/FishyMonkey/?chartstyle=artists"> 
|
Posted By: omar progriguez
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:30
neil peart is a great drummer, but even better in bed!! 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:34
Sounds okay to me. Neil Peart is one of the best, but not the best. It's a pretty subjective question, but I'd go for Bruford, though I suspect people like Billy Cobham might dispute that. |
limeyrob wrote:Posted By: Peter the young
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:41
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To me Phil Collins is the greatest drummer in prog, but all over no one comes even near Bonzo! |
Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:45
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errrhhh??? I think he is an excellent drummer too, but I prefer Jon Hiseman. ------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005 |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:46
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You wrote that in pink by accident ------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:47
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Yo, excuse the ignorance but which bands are Steve Gadd & Jack DeJohnette from? Ta Inf. ------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:48
Collins is a good drummer, it's a shame as time went on he ended up spending more & more time behind the piano and mic than behind a drum kit. I like Bonzo but he's not exactly subtle...and on stage Moby Dick could get a tad boring  ..... |
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:50
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Posted By: omar progriguez
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:50
do you prefer Jon Hiseman in bed or as a drummer? |
Posted By: omar progriguez
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:51
I take pink very seriously, ducky! |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 11:53
Sorry love ------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:00
Cheers Phil...not familiar with Johnette, prob beacuse I know very little about Jazz! I have a fair few Steely Dan albums but not sure which albums gadd worked on. If he played on Aja then the drumming is fanatastic on that record ;)
------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: Gloryscene
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:17
you look great when you are all hard and errect whilst wearing a pink cropped tanktop ------------- "The Beautiful Ally Of Your Own Gravediggers" www.gloryscene.co.uk |
Posted By: Gloryscene
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:20
hiseman has a really tight pink bottom ------------- "The Beautiful Ally Of Your Own Gravediggers" www.gloryscene.co.uk |
Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:23
Sounds like your quite an arse yourself. ------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005 |
Posted By: FishyMonkey
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:26
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Gad comes and goes real quick...to see what bands he was...here ya go.
http://drummerworld.com/drummers/Steve_Gadd.html ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/FishyMonkey/?chartstyle=artists">
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:27
.............with your ears... Anyone trying to favourably compare The Human Equation with the accepted masterpiece that is Moving Pictures is in need of urgent surgery to remove the fanboy chip from his brain... Do you think that Rush had a lucky break which allowed them to become one of the top bands in the world and Ayreon were just unlucky? Get real ! AS for Rush being over-rated so Neil Peart must also be over-rated Proof perfect that you are confusing "best" with "most popular" To get the full deal on how Rush conquered the world read my upcoming review of "Rush-Chemistry" by Jon Collins which will appear on these pages soon..... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14246 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14246 |
Posted By: Peter the young
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:28
I agree that Collins should have stayed behind the kit instead of the piano, but i do enjoy his singing a great deal. Moby Dick could in a few seconds seem a tad boring, but what a beat that man created! And you got to love the hand-drumming
|
Posted By: matti meikäläin
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:29
| no, he is just a technical player. i cant hear any feeling when he plays. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:42
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Neil's one of my favourite drummers, maybe even my favourite... |
Posted By: Gloryscene
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:47
do you want to touch it as so many men have said it is really pert? ------------- "The Beautiful Ally Of Your Own Gravediggers" www.gloryscene.co.uk |
Posted By: UncleMeat
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:52
Bill Bruford, Terry Bozzio, Vinnie Colaiuta, Chester Thompson, Steve
Gadd or Simon Phillips are amongst my favorites. I'm not the biggest
Rush fan, but think that Neil is a very good drummer, especially for
the Rush type of music. But he is really not the best ever.  Bozzio Colaiuta------------- Music Is The Best |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:58
| Definitely one of the best, but not the best, in my opinion. I agree with several others who have mentioned Cobham as being better. |
Posted By: UncleMeat
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 13:01
Steve Gadd played with; Al di Meola, Chick Corea (return to forever), Paul Simon (50 ways to leave your lover), Steeley Dan (Aja), James Taylor etc. He knows how to play very diverse types of music. ------------- Music Is The Best |
Posted By: Flip_Stone
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 13:05
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HA! WHAT A JOKE! EITHER YOU ARE A RUSH FANATIC, OR YOU ARE NEW TO MUSIC. THERE ARE MANY DRUMMERS ON EQUAL OR HIGHER STATURE THAN PEART Bill Bruford Phil Collins Narada Michael Walden Terry Bozzio Billy Cobham Simon Phillips (just to name a few)
|
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 13:16
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Peart is good,but there are a lot of drummers just as good as him: To name but a few.... Not to mention 2 of the greatest drummers ever...Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa -------------  |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 13:35
| Once briefly interviewed the classical percussionist Evelyn Glennie, who told me her favourite drummers were Simon Phillips and Dave Weckl, who many say are the best session drummers in the world (and lokk at the numbe rof people have employed them - Vinnie Colaiuta comes in behind them. Glennie also played a modern double percussion concerto at the London Promenade Concerts 3 years ago with Pete Erskine - I assume only the best play with the best. BTW Gary Husband ain't bad either. |
Posted By: Space Dimentia
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 14:19
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Neal peart is won of the best prog drummers around he is definatly up there with nick mason and Mike Portney, yes etc. ------------- Prog is music for the mind Hear your Orphaned child! Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17 |
Posted By: The Green Tank
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 15:22
Yeah. Neil Peart knows how to get it done. And he's Canadian!
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Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 15:34
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Nick Mason??? Innovative during the Sixties (maybe), but nothing spectacular since then...
Jack DeJohnette did some amazing things while he was a member of Miles Davis's Fusion era... For those who think that Bill Bruford or Phil Collins has a"distinctive" snare sound, listen to Jack's snare sound....
Charles ------------- G'day |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 15:53
Yes... He's the best drummer ever...  ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 15:54
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In prog Peart can lay claim to be the best.He has the power of Carl Palmer with the subtelty of Bill Bruford.Only Jon Hiseman (criminally underrated) can also lay claim to the mantle. (IMO) btw for all those who make clever (not very) statements about there are 22 jazz drummers who are better ..please note this is a prog site |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 16:02
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No. Kieth Moon is the best drummer. Peart is close in second. -------------  
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 16:04
And not only that, they arent expressing their own opinion,but someone elses! Why it is seen as a given that all jazz drummers are better than prog drummers who are all better than rock drummers who are all better than pop drummers.
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Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 16:16
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Meh, Mick Pointer is better. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 16:19
Didnt know he'd been ill.......... |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 16:21
Yeah, that is why he is taking it easy on his drumkit. He is saving his energy. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 16:28
Nick Mason?? You've oviously heard some Floyd that I haven't.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: progadicto
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:25
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Maybe Peart is one of the best, but I keep my ears on Bruford, Billy Cobham, Carl Palmer, Terry Bozzio and Matthias Olssen from Anglagard... Ah! also Stewart Copeland, really intersting in the Police era and in his solo projects... ------------- ... E N E L B U N K E R... |
Posted By: rushaholic
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:30
| The short answer is... YES! |
Posted By: SlipperFink
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:39
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I'm glad he did what he did.
In the end: There are FAR more sophisticated thinkers, far better executors, far greater innovators and FAR better musicians who have sat behind drumkits in the history of progrock. The list stretches into the many dozens off the top of my head. I won't bother much... I'll just give ya the first 3 that spring to mind from the letter "C" alone. Curt Cress. Phil Collins. Chris Cutler. Peart is a REHEARSED drummer who relys on polish and precision in execution rather than any peristant sort of improvisational approach. His playing approach is largely based in long arithmetic concepts, and is therefore very exciting to, and easily understood, by both young drummers and rock fans who have a little more difficulty grasping what the more sophisticated players are driving at. This does much to explain his popularity with those two particular groups over the years. However, all is not lost: Neil inspired a whole generation of young kids stay home from parties and play the drums. This really helped the state of the craft as far as a "performance watermark" for players from a 'uniformity disguised as perfection' standpoint in rock musics during the late 70's thru the mid 80's. Of course more than a few prog players saw this 'style as a function of repetition' mindset as an enormous step in the wrong direction towards the "seemless magic-trick" and away from "tell me yer story with your instrument" the latter requiring one to be a much better MUSICIAN than TECHNICIAN. Then we get into the kids who were BORN TO PLAY THE INSTRUMENT. Naturals. Like the 3 chaps I mentioned at the start of this post. But that's a whole other can o' wormies. And is a subject that will result in much fistcuffs and aggro in many groups of assembled musicians. SM. ------------- Modesty is an ornament, but one goes further without it. Old German Proverb |
Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:40
What about Andrew McCollough?
Charles ------------- G'day |
Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:43
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Slipperfink the thread you just prevoiusly wrote was very well written... And well said....
Charles ------------- G'day |
Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:43
| Defineatly no but is probably in the top 20. Player's who are much more technically gifted that come immediatly to mind are Bruford, Bozzio, Thompson and Palmer. Peart is an excellent rock drummer but struggles to adapt his playing to the more diificult parts. In fact he is a better lyricist than he is a drummer! |
Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:46
Okay then.... TERRY BOZZIO..... Charles ------------- G'day |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 17:52
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And no-one mentioned the late Pierre Moerlen yet? Tsk tsk. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:05
^ We were waiting for you, you can't help but mention him, why should we bother? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:08
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Some months ago I would have placed him with Bruford at the top, today my top 2 are:
Iván
------------- 
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:09
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What a load of patronising nonsense. Have any of you people actually heard anything by Peart from the last 10 years? I think,nay I know,NOT!! |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:09
Maybe because he's 'the late' or maybe because Peart was better  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: SlipperFink
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:50
LOL. Ahh yes.... There's that. It's actually hysterically funny that you can't debate a single point I have raised. The end of my missive kind of explains why I wouldn't bother. Some kids are born to play the instrument in a fashion that will define or redefine it: And Neil wasn't one of them. Nothing much has altered the basic conceptual impetus of his playing, which showed some encouraging growth until about 1984-1985 then just basically flatlined into "A whole lot more of the same" ... and yes, that including his mostly horrific journey into the "glancing blow" drummers lemming run of the late 90's. In any event. I am genuinely glad you think Peart is the bee-knees. His fans think the world of him and that's really the bigger part of the 'short game'. In the long game... He's pretty doomed to be a footnote. A minor player from a musical and technical standpoint, who garnered very major acclaim. Kinda like the Frank Sinatra of drums. HOHOHO. Cheers, SM. ------------- Modesty is an ornament, but one goes further without it. Old German Proverb |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:56
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emmmm .... i still like neil pearts drumming ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Gedhead
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 18:59
| So obvious it need not be stated. But I will anyway. Neil Peart is the best drummer ever. He is also the most influential drummer of all time. |
Posted By: raindance
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 19:04
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I'm with those who think Neil showed great promise in the 70's but somehow didn't fulfill his potential. Whereas players like Palmer and Bozzio continually strived for perfection and improvement, Neil failed to improve and thus showing flaws in his true potential and ability. In the 80's, when Rush took a more direct rock approach his drumming cannot be distinguished from most other 'rock' drummers of that genre. Listen to those 80's Rush albums and you'll hear lots of 'fills' in the songs. I will agree with Progger though in that he is a great lyricist! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 19:46
| The answer is no................one drummer missed out is Brian Davison from the Nice, a brilliant drummer, that even Emerson thought was more technically gifted than Palmer, and i thought he was the best. |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 20:14
| Eh no. |
Posted By: skarabrae
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 20:21
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I would not say the best ... as that is relative ... but certainly
one of the very best. ------------- We who explore, willfully depart absolute reality for a time. |
Posted By: bartok
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 20:54
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Reality check: Outside of a few Germans (and a couple drum snobs) nobody's heard of Curt Cress - I don't think you can even find his records outside of Germany. No one has heard of Chris Cutler. As far as drum history "footnotes" go, these guys didn't even make a footnote. (And I like Curt Cress - but that's the truth) As far as Phil Collins - most people today don't even associate him with the drums - years of crooning Disney tunes and a couple of pop-Genesis hits are pretty much all anyone thinks of now when they think of Phil. (And when was the last time he did any drumming, much less anything drum-worthy?) Peart, on the other hand, is not only still drumming but he's also at the top of his game - and his live shows are phenomenal. Not an innovator, true, but nevertheless a great musician who chose a worthwhile gig and takes it very seriously. Greatest drummer ever, nah - that's Buddy Rich. Palmer, Collins, Bruford, whoever - they have nothing on him.
|
Posted By: SlipperFink
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 00:06
An interesting and worthy series of points bartok, at least it was before ya got into pitting him against two VERY superior musicians/thinkers/ innovators. I'll leave Palmer out of this as he was just so endearing in his youth... and in a way was the polar opposite of Neil as a player(couldn't keep simple time in a bag and very sloppy by "80's standards"), yet therefore kinda fell into the 'time may not be so kind' catagory. It's funny. I suppose I may hold a little more faith in the eventuality of the 'cream rises to the top' as far as long term historic assessment goes than you do. But this is from the viewpoint of somebody who makes his living working day in and day out with young drummers in production scenarios, and therein may lie a admittedly skewed perspective, as the tired maxim "History is written by the victors" has a fearsome track record indeed. If this is the case... Poor Collins will take a horrible beating. And that would be a terrible shame as he was SMASHING player on a bunch of levels, both in PG era Genesis and, of course, Brand X. And you should find out who Chris Cutler is. If you love the instrument. You may enjoy his playing immensely. He is a very unorthodox, passionate and original player in my estimation. Nothing like any of the chaps we have been discussing. As for Buddy Rich... Well.... We'd have real difficulty even mentioning most of these rock players in THAT company. THAT was a self-contained UNIVERSE of rhythm. Whole other level. SM. ------------- Modesty is an ornament, but one goes further without it. Old German Proverb |
Posted By: bluetailfly
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 00:12
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Best ever? You mean like in the entire history of human kind? And like even including prehistoric human beings, and maybe other races on other planets? And like maybe other universes? You mean like that kind of "ever?" Just checking... ------------- "The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle." |
Posted By: Yanns
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 00:13
| No. |
Posted By: Fraja
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 01:22
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I think he is the best drummer ever but I also like Palmer,Bozzio and Carey!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 04:09
Of course you are so clever you forget to mention ( HOHOHUM! |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 04:12
Another post having no basis in fact.It is one thing offering an opinion but quite another just "pitching into the dark".Its 20 years since your so-called "direct rock approach" theory. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 05:20
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 07:55
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Yes another "X is better than Y" thread - these threads can never prove a point one way or another.
Personally, I consider Peart to be my favorite drummer, and (again, personally) consider him to be the greatest rock drummer of his generation - there's certainly no point in comparing him to jazz drummers - it's like comparing a brilliant mandolin player to Steve Howe... chalk & cheese!
How many other musicians can lay claim to being nominated for a grammy for best instrumental performance - for a drum solo? There are very few (if any) bands who can honestly say that if it weren't for their drummer, they would not be held in such high esteem; Peart's style has defined the Rush sound as much as Lee's vocals (in my own humble opinion), and his solo spots are for many the highlight of their gigs. Also, he can play in his pyjamas (yes, I know I've posted this elsewhere, but I love the pic...): 
Even Bozzio can't do that..... (and Gene Krupa always wore a dressing gown) - so there! ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 08:08
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Well even if he wasn't the greatest .. he was once definitely the
Stripe-iest! (Seriously anybody else read anything into that straight
line obssesion?) I think he's up there ... but just as with bands I tend to go through phases ... first fave drummer was Bonzo, then Keith Moon, there was an Ian Paice phase, a lengthy Bill Bruford phase ... even a Joe Morello phase ... I don't know enough about drummers to compare ... but I'm pretty sure Peart's one of the rock drumming greats ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: UncleMeat
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 15:07
But then again, I've seen Bozzio play with a mask on, singing AND drumming at the same time. ------------- Music Is The Best |
Posted By: SlipperFink
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 20:45
Err.... yes. Right. Fred Gruber. Get back to me when you get up to speed. Cheers, SM. ------------- Modesty is an ornament, but one goes further without it. Old German Proverb |
Posted By: raindance
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 20:53
| No! |
Posted By: ldlanberg
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 20:53
|
Neil Peart may very well be the best, technically. But I don't think it should be forgotten that the words "musicianship" and "musician" include the word "music". Which means it should sound good, also. And I know that is a very subjective thing for the individual. For me, Peart sounded more like someone tapping on a calculator than he did a musician or artist. To this very day I still have a wrenching, internal struggle over whether I prefer Bill Bruford or Phil Collins as best drummer. ------------- LDL |
Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:23
really, people need to stop comparing Peart to Jazz drummers and Bruford. Compare within context. |
Posted By: Biggles
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:25
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Pfffft. Billy Cobham sh*ts all over Peart, in technique as well as musicianship. If you listen to the Mahavishnu Orchestra and to Cobham's solo albums and listen out for Cobham, you'll know what I mean. He amazes at every song. So does Vinnie Colaiuta. I've never really been able to see why everyone thinks Peart is so good. Maybe it's because I'm not a drummer, but he's never amazed me. ------------- The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe. http://www.last.fm/user/sbonfiglioli/?chartstyle=red"> 
|
Posted By: Tommy
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:26
Well Peart does a 'jazz' solo on the Live In Rio DVD but dosn't pull it off! |
Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 22:32
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^ Maybe if Neil had been playing in a Jazz trio for a long time, then yes, the Jazz compaiosns would better fit. However, Rush has little jazz influence in their music (this could create a whole other debate,) so trying to cmpare Neil to a Jazz player like Dejohnette or even Bruford (Bill playing , at least to my ears, is rooted in alot of Jazz,) doesn't work as well if he's never played the music. It's the same reason I wouldn't compare Ron Carter tto Chris Squire or Geddy Lee. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 01:26
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Another underrated drummer is Tony Fernandez, a guy who can follow the unpredictable Rick Wakeman in a solo concert and do it perfectly has to be outstanding, I've seen him many times and he's simply incredible. He also worked with Strawbs. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 05:12
"Nothing much has altered the basic conceptual impetus of his playing, Peart was not even active in the late 90s.There is no studio- recorded Peart between Test For Echo in 96 and Vapor Trails in 2002.He was out of the loop,didnt even pick up a drumstick for 4 years.Given that TFO was basically a 1995 project,your observations are banal. What hindsight rabbits are you going to pluck out next? Tell me something that I havent already told you,something that you intended to say but omitted to mention or something that someone could not simply "google" for,my friend and I might just be impressed.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 05:22
Peart has a "jazz" section in his drum solo and pulls it off perfectly.
Neil is an avid fan of big band jazz and Buddy Rich is his idol.He oversaw (and played on) both Burning For Buddy projects and played at the Buddy Rich memorial concert.At that concert he discovered that his ability to perform in a jazz combo was not the same as being able to perform the moves solo. He has devoted considerable time and effort to rectifying this problem,including going back to basics and re-defining his technique from stick grip upwards.Anyone listening to Test For Echo or Vapor Trails will see the product of this development. |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 05:39
^ well said - Neil Peart is in my top three drummers of all time - i also think ian paice over-looked  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: SlipperFink
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 06:10
This is fun. OK. What are you objecting to here...? The fact that I quite obviously know not only more about drums and drummers than you do.... and probably ever will.... Or.... The fact that I appear to know more about yer boy from Thornhill than you do, in spite of the fact that I 'outgrew' him and his playing by the time I was what.... 17? 18? That was before the seventies ended BTW. I was hardly unique in that respect... I moved on, and so do MANY, MANY, drummers who figure out all the things I have pointed out about Peart... And his utterly obvious limitations as both a thinker/player and a musician.... Because... uhmmm.. THEY LEARN TO PLAY THE INSTRUMENT. Let's dispense with embarrassing "Oh no.... He's MUCH BETTER NOW.... REALLY!!! disclaimers. Sorry, but in almost all instances in mature players... YA CAN'T TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS. You can just dress him up in a different outfit and rearrange the order of his act. You certainly are correct in your contention that I haven't spent an enormous amount of time watching the twilight of his popularity. I've really only kept occassional tabs on his playing BECAUSE I thought he had something to contribute to the craft BESIDES his playing... Namely... His inspiration to novice and intermediate players. So sorry but... the exact year he ran into Fred Gruber Pied Piper show hardly matters to me... I've got better things to do with my attention span. I spend a whole bunch of my time working with drummers for a living.... Including some young drummers who hand old codgers like Neil his ass technically... and believe me... his popularity and appeal in young players with advanced skills is at an all time nadir as far as I can see. As it should be.... Kids today have far more astute and diverse players to emulate and admire. Tough pill to swallow.. But hey!!! To be timeless.... Well... Ya gotta be TIMELESS. In the end... He makes a cute fan favorite and prog-folk-hero, but he's so sorely lacking in the 'conduit of the muses' dept. he can't even be considered in with the truly marvelous players. Sorry if this is bursting your little balloon and I'd hate to diminish your standing as an expert in your little online community of fans here... but mine is hardly an uncommon or unheard of assessment of Pearts playing amoungst a WHOLE LOTTA drummers, not just recently.... but over the last 30 years give or take a few. Like it or lump it. Your call. SM. ------------- Modesty is an ornament, but one goes further without it. Old German Proverb |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 06:20
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I'm happy with your right to voice an opinion.Your knowledge of drumming technique is,apparently, infinitely better than mine. But as a teacher your your lack of faith in the ability to improve is slightly unnerving. My issue with you is your inaccuracy,and this like it or lump it attitude is just plain boorish.You can have all the best intentions in the world,but if you simply make up the narrative to suit your argument then you'd better expect someone to come back at you. I have no "bubble" to burst,I am simply amazed that every "non-fan" of Peart is so ridiculously over-the-top in their need to bring him down.That is why I am driven to defend him,I am a fan,obviously,but more of "the man" rather than "the artist". If I corrected you for implying that Ronald Reagan was still the president of the USA,would you tag me a USA apologist? |
Posted By: stevie b
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 06:53
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yeah he's a genius and the most perfect drummer on the planet
------------- prog 4 a better world |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 06:56
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I'm not sure drummers and perfection really go together. |
Posted By: SlipperFink
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 07:09
LOL. Yes. The best thing about the 'inter-not'. Everyone is a genius and an expert. Content. Post content. All that matters. And I have it. End of story. Next.
A considerate, measured and appropriate response. Spoken like a gentleman. Neil would be proud of you. I mean that most sincerly. In fact Tony R.... I admire Peart. Always have. I learned a lot about the role of the instrument in rock music, and just plain had a load of fun listening and playing along to Rush records as a boy. And in many ways am saddened that more young players don't appear know very much about him or many of his contemporaries. If you review my exchange in this very thread with bartok... you'll see my mindset on how unfair I suspect history might be to some of these wonderful players... and my dread fear that the 'market-popular' may live to eclipse the 'truly innovative' and whatnot. Bartok hints it may be an inescapable eventuality. In the end, I DO think the better players rise to the top(at least in the estimation of young musicians) provided they reach a certain modicum of 'visibility' in their heyday. As Bartok says...(To paraphrase a bit here) "Nobody outside of Germany ever heard of Curt Cress". Ouch. But tough to argue with. Anyhoo. Best regards, SM. PS. BTW. I'm not a teacher per say. I'm a record producer. And, ironically and maybe even hilariously... a successful one by western standards. And as one.... Many of my days are filled with the joyous cacophony of young minds trying to find a way to take what is in their heads... and make it come out of cardboard cones all over the world. I may seem a bit grouchy and opinionated here.... but I'm miles from bitter and hopeless. And yes... I'm a genius. Just ask my Mom. ------------- Modesty is an ornament, but one goes further without it. Old German Proverb |
Posted By: sgtpepper
Date Posted: November 12 2005 at 07:22
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Neal is maybe one of the best but let's think of some more versatile drummers: Phil Collins in Brand X, Bill Bruford are in my opinion the top prog drummers. Beyond the scope of progrock, there are such guys as Billy Cobham,Alphonse Mouzon, Dennis Chambers or Vinnie Colaiuta. Mike Portnoy is a technically great drummer but his prog-rock playing in Transatlantic sounds too heavy to me. What about great Ringo Starr? ------------- sgtpepper Genesis:"Looking for someone I guess I'm doing that, trying to find a memory in a dark room." |