Who Invented Prog Styles
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19460
Printed Date: August 13 2025 at 11:53
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Topic: Who Invented Prog Styles
Posted By: Rorro
Subject: Who Invented Prog Styles
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 01:12
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Hi guys, what i'm asking is if you know, which group do you think that is the pioneer of each genre. For Example Marillion is said to be the first Neo Prog group, is trhat right?, do you think it was another group?, is always the first band of a style the best, or the most innovative?
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Replies:
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 01:20
| For examle, i don't know which is the first prog-metal group, and when did they released their first album |
Posted By: Viajero Astral
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 02:08
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Pink Floyd - Psicodelic/Space Rock King Crimson - Symphonic Prog The pioners of Prog Metal, well, I dont know, there are a few prog metal bands before Dream Theater, and I dont know who was first. ------------- 
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Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 02:17
| Ok Thank you, I don't Know any prog metal band that started before Dream Theater and that's why i'm asking |
Posted By: Saint_Awesome
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 02:33
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Watchtower and Fates Warning were the first in prog-metal (Energetic
Disassembly was released in '85, and Night on Brocken in '84). |
Posted By: anael
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 15:41
I really don't think so. Have you heard Uriah Heep? Rush? Checkpoint Charlie? I'm sure they could be the first Prog-Metal bands.  ------------- 
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Saint_Awesome wrote:Posted By: Dr Know
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 15:45
| I would say Queensryche ere the first fully prog metal band. Uriah Heep and Rush aren´t metal. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 15:54
no they are not metal.... but they could be considered the fathers of Prog-Metal. Not sure what Uriah Heep you've listened to.. but the one I have sure is a fusion of sorts of prog and metal elements.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: anael
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 15:57
That's what i mean -------------
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 16:02
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First prog metal band were Queensryche (Warning 1983). I think Marillion were the first neo prog group as they started in 78/9. King Crimson were the first fully Symphonic prog band with In The Court... Except for Queensryche I'm not to certain on these. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Dr Know
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 16:16
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I remember when Queensryche the Warning was released, they referred to it as thought provoking metal and the thinking man´s band. Where is The Progtologist when we need him |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 16:19
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Quensryche invented prog metal, but many, MANY band influenced the genre... Queensryche started as a melodic metal band, FW were refereed to as a copy of Iron Maiden... Watchtower? Hmmm... I like to think that Maiden actually invented the style.. but shhhh... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 18:30
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There is one thing everybody can be sure of: Magma invented Zheul ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Rashikal
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 18:30
| I invented music |
Posted By: andYouandI45
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 18:39
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The Can for Kraut Rock, I think. No i invented music |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 18:40
FW could be referred to as Iron Maiden's copy only with regards to their very first album "Night on Broken". With "The spectre within" and "Awaken the guardian" FW went much further into real prog leaving Maiden and the likes far behind. However Iron Maiden IMO is most influential band for prog-metal genre as a whole. ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: luckyman_123
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 19:14
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I invented music. No, really, EMERSON, LAKE, and PALMER invented music. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 19:28
Amon Duul II... and they coined the moniker 'kraut rock' . ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 19:29
 and Soft Machine for Canterbury ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 20:11
in my opinion the first prog-metal album is from 1969!!!! "Sea Shanties" by High Tide -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 20:15
Amon Düül 2 were very influental too. and the first Krautrock album ever was by Amon Düül ("Psychedelic Underground"), not Amon Düül 2 ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 20:18
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I tend to agree with this quite controversial opinion of BaldJean to some extent; and if not really full prog-metal album, it can be probably called grand grand father of prog-metal. And (nowadays) I find it being more interesting than any other metal album afterwards ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 20:40
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As to who inveted the styles, not necessarily who was the first band to play that style completely. Neo Progressive: Genesis circa Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering (highly debatable) Symphonic Prog: Ehn...going from English bands and barring the more avant-guard King Crimson, I'd say Yes. RIO: I'm no expert, but It's gotta be Zappa. Progressive Metal: King Crimson ("Red"), and Rush ("YYZ") ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 20:42
thanks for the correction  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 20:44
Not really. The Wilde Flowers were the first Canterbury group, and many of the members of TWF went on to join Soft Machine, Caravan, etc... ------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty |
Posted By: walrus333
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 20:48
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Miles Davis With His "Bitches Brew" album is considered the inventor of jazz-rock fusion. ------------- If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks! |
Posted By: Crushed Aria
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 20:51
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Queensryche were the first prog. metal band, with ../Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=3557" title="Queensryche The Warning album reviews, Mp3 and track listing - The Warning as their self-titled wasn't so progressive ../Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=3557" title="Queensryche The Warning album reviews, Mp3 and track listing - ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 21:50
ahh... I didin't know that... thanks! (Micky makes a note to check them out) ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 21:55
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the first post-rock albums where Slint's Spiderland and Talk Talk's Laughing stock in 1991 ------------- 
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 22:01
Quiet, poindexter.  |
Posted By: Thyme Traveler
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 23:30
Never thought of the first couple post-Gabriel albums as Neo-Prog, but in retrospect I guess you could say they had moved away from being Symphonic Prog. |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 00:09
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Ingmar Progman invented the progressive subgenres. He is the cousin of movie maker Ingmar Bergman!
(Joke! ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 00:13
------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: razifa
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 01:44
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I am no expert but this is my opinion Magma: Zehul Marillion: neo-prog Yes: symphonic prog Zappa: RIO Prog metal: Queensryche was the first one but there is a clear prog metal influence on Knife from Genesis...Really listen carefully to Trespass Italian Prog: Banco del Mutuo Soccorso Space Rock: Pink Floyd Jazz Fusion: good question who knows???
------------- ********** **razifa** ********** |
Posted By: The Ryan
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 02:23
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For symphonic prog; why does everyone think King Crimson's In The Court of The Crimson King was made before Touch? Search Touch on this website. What I find interesting about this little band is that members of Yes and Kansas have cited them as early influences. The song Seventy-Five off of Touch's only album sounds unusually similar to the upbeat radio prog-classics Americans should know from classic rock stations, especially similar to very early Yes and Kansas! |
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 09:52
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hmm Interesting, i have never even heard of them. I will check it out. ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 09:56
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OK checked it out. This band had one album, in 1968( the same year as In the Court of the Crimson King) It does tell me the exact date so I can't see if it came out first. However, it is listed as proto-prog. This means its has the same amount of prog as bands like the moody blues and Zappa. I would litsen to it to see if it was more prog than those, but there are no streams on the site. ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 13:44
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way to leave out Caravan ------------- 
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Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 15:16
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What About Electronic prog?
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Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 15:50
------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 16:16
Tangerine Dream ? -------------
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Posted By: The Ryan
Date Posted: February 26 2006 at 19:25
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Here's where you assuming progarchives is always right is actually a bad thing to do, and what progarchives says rules supreme isn't correct. The problem with assuming "proto-prog" cannot be symphonic is that you would be doing so wrongfully. The song Seventy-Five came out in 1968, a year when the term prog-rock had not yet been coined, but does that mean that before the term came into existence there was no true progressive rock bands? Also, if King Crimson would have only put out one album, their debut album, they would be proto-prog as well by this sites definitions. That album itself is progressive rock, but proto-prog as well. And Touch was the same in that sense, although the bands sound nothing alike. It's very easy to hear, just go buy the album. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 13:18
The term neo-progressive was coined at worst as a sarcastic comment on the music played, or politely it is an ironic term. Neo-prog meant derative, so semantically I would argue a neo-prog band can't be a pioneer |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:01
I think Julie Andrews invented the sound of music. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:21
Kraftwerk? ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Space Dimentia
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:32
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I don't think it should be down to what band invented what genre but should be attributed to what Country. But to help answer your question to the best of my knowledge. The Beatles- Prog/proto-prog Pink Floyd/Hawkwind- Space-rock, Psychedillia KIng Crimson (later on Yes/ELP/Genesis)- Symphonic Prog Hawkwind- Eletctric/synth prog Jethro Tull- Prog folk One could argue Iron Madien but it is genrally considered that Queensryche invented Prog-metal. These are my opinions of course. But Like I said I don't beleive that it should be about what group for example people generally say it was King Crimson who started Symphonic yet some of the great symphonic bands appeared around the same time or the year after thus adding to the melting pot of symphonic prog. So I beielve it should be about what country attibuted to the invention of prog styles, yet even hear I do admit that the list would be very short: Uk- Symphonic/Space rock/ Psychedillia/Synth/ Most prog styles in general along with inventing Heavy Metal/Heavy Rock USA- Prog metal (even though if one was to take the view that Iron Maiden invented Prog-metal then the US have nothing to contribute to the musical scene bar country along with rap and blues which even then are black) ------------- Prog is music for the mind Hear your Orphaned child! Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17 |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:38
ahhh... probable answer to above question. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:38
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To add some more doubts about clasifications, I would claim that the Moody blues are the first symphonic. I think that it is wrong to call them "proto prog". For me they are much more prog and symphonic then lots of later bands. The same with the Nice. I'm not sure which is the first prog folk band. Jethro Tull ? Traffic ? maybe Strawbs ? Oh, and I would support Vangelis as the first electronic prog artist. ------------- omri |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:44
good call on Vangelis.... first prog folk... my support would be for Traffic on that one. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 21:05
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I stay with Strawbs because Traffic IMO are the borderline of many genres and sub-genres, like Psychedelia, Art Rock, Proto Prog, POP and a slight touch of folk, but maily Psychedelic/Art Rock. BTW: When The Strawbs were defining Folk/Prog or Folk/Proto Prog if youwant, Jethro Tull was playing blues, 100& of their music was related to that genre. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 22:11
if it weren't for that 1968 self titled Traffic album (their 2nd album)... I'd agree. Their psychedelic period didn't last past that debut album IMO. Sure Dave Mason was all into all that psychedelic stuff, but that's why he left/was asked to leave Traffic... they didn't mesh musically (or personaloly hahahah) their folk influence were more than apparent on the Winwood/Capaldi songs off of Traffic. Like Fourty Thousand Headman, and Vagabond Virgin, ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: anael
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 23:11
Before Kraftwerk was Organisation. Maybe this group could be the beginning of Electronic Prog even when a bunch of russian guys, the BBC and more were experimenting with electronics...in the 1950's and 1960's. -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 00:18
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Well even when I believe they always had a strong Pop and Psyche influence, lets accept your argument, still, they were not the first. Traffic's next album to the self titled was Heaven is in your Mind, which is the USA version of Mr Fantasy, an hymn to psychedelia. Their first semi folk album would be "Last Exit" which if I'm not wrong was released in 1969. Well, back to the Strawbs: This album was released in 1968 and was pure Prog Folk, 100%, almost no mixture:
Traffic never did something remotely similar, and even if they ever, it was only after The Strawbs. Iván
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 05:16
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no, I have to say Ms Andrews is a neo-vontrappist.
DOoooH |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 05:25
Lots of experimental electronic work in the 60's well predating Vangelis: Whitenoise, Celia Derbyshire, Terry Riley, Stockhausen, Carlos, Subotnik, etc.
Trouble with Traffic was they were all things to all people. I saw one of the gigs that ended up on the Welcome to the Canteen album, and with Reebop onboard they had a strong Africo-jazz feel. They started off as a R'n'B band (essentially Winwood didn't let go of his Spencer Davis Group background), psychedelic (further there are a couple of bootlegs, with most of Traffic backing Hendrix), then a jazzy phase, a couple of albums which have the sense of folk. But remember serious rock writers spent many column inches trying to understand Traffic and their so-called 'lost ten years' |
Posted By: Marwin
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 05:37
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i would say Watchtower was the first real Prog metal band eventhough
Queensryche and Fates Warning released albums before them i wouldnt
classify those albums as prog metal.
------------- http://myspace.com/toxicmindfin http://myspace.com/porcelainprog |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 06:53
not Kraftwerk. their influence on electronic Prog is highly overrated. they had an influence on New Wave though, with their cold and automatic, even lifeless style. but for Prog I think Tangerine Dream were much more important. Krautrock as a whole was very important for electronic prog; other artists that need to be named are Klaus Schulze and the early Popol Vuh; also to a certain extent Ash Ra Tempel and the Cosmic Jokers, though they used "traditional" instruments too. Conrad Schnitzler is another name that has to be mentioned. even Amon Düül 2 have an excursion into electronic prog on "Tanz der Lemminge" with the long track "The Marilyn Monroe Memorial Church". Cyrille Verdeaux from France should be mentioned too (he is listed under Clearlight). and Eberhard Schoener (not in the archives yet!) needs a mentioning too ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Construkction
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 12:21
| Fates Warning was the first Prog Metal band. They started 3 years before Dream theater. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 14:55
points taken (was just throwing Kraftwerk out for discussion) Where do you see Hawkwind in the 'genesis' of electronic prog. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 15:11
great post as usual Ivan... if talking pure folk-prog.. I agree with you. However as Dick Heath said, Traffic and it's music is not black and white (then again when is anything musical black and white), it was never 'pure' anything hahahah. Traffic's first was, we all agree psychedelic (and those psychedelic tendencies to my ears are gone by the second album) but I see it as psychedelic folk. Being that prog is just an extention of psychedelia it is not a stretch in my mind to at least consider Dear Mr. Fantasy, and strongly consider Traffic's 1968 2nd album (Traffic) folk-prog. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Djebel
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 15:23
| I would say Pink Floyd and King Crimson... |
Posted By: Frasse
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 15:52
Wait a minute. Isn't RIO (Rock In Opposition) an invention by Henry Cow? Is Zappa RIO at all? Pythagoras invented music... |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 17:31
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King Crimson invented them all. end of discussion.
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 17:32
nah... The Beatles... the root of ALL prog. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 17:47
| My vote goes to Vanilla Fudge (rock, jazz, soul and classic), Colosseum (jazz and rock), The Nice (rock and classic), The Moody Blues (pop and symphonic), Pink Floyd (pop and psychedelia) and Genesis (folk, rock and classic). But I have to admit that it's subjective! |
Posted By: Flip_Stone
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 19:19
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Saying who started this style and that style is more or less impossible. Like many things and trends, there isn't a clear cut starting point with any style. There's usually a trend towards something. A lot of people seem to obsess over organizing / labelling / categorizing, but music styles aren't that black and white. There's tons of grey (and many colors!) in progressive music. That's part of what makes it so appealing!
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 19:57
you got that right  -------------
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 20:00
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To precise, it was really the Wilde Flowers. -------------  
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 20:41
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 21:45
and to follow up on my point let me offer an example, to say that Traffic wasn't 'pure folk-prog' thus could not be a father of prog-folk is the same as saying that a group like Uriah Heep wasn't a father of prog-metal because.... they weren't metal... which is crap and I think (hope) you'd probably agree. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Witchwoodhermit
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 09:16
I think you'll find that it was the Brits that coined this derogatory term about German rock. This was later turned around and used to their "advantage" by Faust. ------------- Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 09:27
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"Krautrock" become a quality sign ("Made in Germany") in certain circles.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 11:26
| In the late Seventies and early Eighties I bought many albums from German bands like Jane, Grobschnitt, Hoelderlin, Ramses and Novalis on which labels were put with 'Krautrock', later I discovered that the genuine Krautrock is bands like Can and Amon Duul, confusing! |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 11:39
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It is confusing indeed. The bands like Novalis and Grobschnitt (I like both of them very much) have nothing in common with Krautrock, which I still cannot enjoy really (well, with few exceptions)....
------------- carefulwiththataxe |