Did Pink Floyd...SELL OUT?!?
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Topic: Did Pink Floyd...SELL OUT?!?
Posted By: The Whistler
Subject: Did Pink Floyd...SELL OUT?!?
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 03:17
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Okay, as stuffy, pretentious progsters, we tend to view "classic" bands in three lights: those who sold out, those who didn't sell out but kept going regardless of public opinion, and those who sort of fell apart.
As we all know, Yes Genesis and ELP sold out, Crimso and Tull kept going pointlessly, and Family died somewhere in the background. V Der G either sold out, died, or kept going, depending on who you ask.
HOWEVER, regardless of what comments I may or may not get, that's not why I'm here. Pink Floyd was a band that I would have said didn't sell out; they closed out the seventies with a double disc rock opera.
However, I got to thinking...Floyd never really sold out in that they started playing less complex and/or atmospheric music, but after Gilmour got a hold of the band, all they did was release superfluous live albums (Pulse) or studio albums that were carbon copies of older, better moods (Division Bell). Cool covers though.
Does that qualify on selling out? I recall how the allmusic guide said that everytime the Floyd changed ownership, it went on to bigger commercial success. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 03:31
| Floyd sold out in the best way, allowing themselvs to mature as pop stylists with each new member and change. Relative to the predominant pop music of the 80s, Gilmour's "Pink Floyd" was a pleasant if cold reminder of better days. |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 03:33
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I don't like the term "Sold out" ...... it tends to be used for merely bands that have become succesful and that success is resented in some way.
OK, Genesis went on to play more 'pop' orientated stuff, but "Selling out" is used in most places as a derogatory term, and really is just used to put down what we have spent ages building up. Why do folk big up the little man and go to herculean effort to put him down once he has got to the top? Yes, the music changes, does that mean they have sold out, or merely evolved? (Is "selling out" just a term for a band who have evolved in a way we don't like?) If you spent a year or two spilling your guts into a musical project do you think that you would feel good having it described as "selling out" ? Feelings, you know those human feelings don't alter as you get more cash in the bank, you are just as insecure about baring your soul on vinyl (or whatever they make cd's out of) Or would we prefer our musicians not to evolve, not to try new stuff, not to mature, not to have their own personal preferences? 
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Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 03:34
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Yeah, put a positive spin on it why don'tcha... ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 03:35
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Right...so you like pudding I'm assuming? And I'm assuming I should quote these before I comment on 'em? ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 03:38
Yup, choccie pud with raspberry sauce and custard 
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Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 03:40
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Agreed. Maybe without the raspberry though... ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 03:41
| Mmmm...pudding |
Posted By: Alibongo
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 04:18
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Gilmour's takeover, and i'll tell you for why.When they were a four-piece, releasing the some of the best albums ever, Obscured by Clouds, Meddle, Saucerful of Secrets, and Dark Side, the Floyd could never be the same again. Everyone says Waters took over and ruined Floyd, but it was only when Gilmour took over did the Floyd "fall apart" ------------- 
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Posted By: ryba
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 04:20
| every one does when he/she want to live off music. the point is that the music must be true. |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 05:00
Pink Floyd sold out but in their case it worked so thats OK ! One of the greatest sell out bands in the history of prog  BTW I love pudding but when I was a Kid my mother use to put money in the Christmas pudding this was great till I chipped a tooth 
------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 05:37
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That was the feeling I immediately felt upon hearing "Dark Side Of The Moon". They had gone from an underground psychedelic rock band with plenty of interest and variety to what? Sure, it sounded far more polished and with a wonderful production, especially for the time. However, it sounded far too conventional. Apart from some interesting sound effects and stereo phasing it was just too bland and formulaic. I was only too aware that the emphasis had changed and no longer would we hear the music of old but, for me, the band were providing music for a mass audience. I felt alienated from the band I'd spent some of my most formative years growing up with.
Of course, over the years I have grown to love "Dark Side.." but I still feel that's when they sold their souls to Old Nick. Mind you, who can blame them - rather like Genesis who also did the same when they became a commercial rather than a prog band. They have both done rather well financially from the deal. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 05:46
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I think Floyd NEVER have sold out artistically, really. The music got a bit more direct, I guess, and the spacey jams of their late 60s and early 70s period (which I love) were toned down into a more soluble and conventionally melodic whole, but lyrically I think they got more complex than ever, digging into some really challenging themes. I think Floyd are the epitome of the 'direct' approach that worked wonderfully.
But Genesis are the opposite, imho. Floyd had never done sappy AOR ballads like 'In Too Deep' or 'Invisible Touch' or 'Anything She Does'- Genesis got simpler musically and lyrically in a way few other prog acts did. Fans of the later material always say 'they got more direct' etc. but I think they just sounded like most any other adult contemporary act on some of their worst stuff from Invisible Touch, especially, imho. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 06:20
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of course they sold out... let's not be naive here. The
reemergence of Floyd in the late 80's was nothing more than a game of
one-upsmanship with Roger Waters and to satisyfy the Floydian love of
money... hahhahah. Not to mention the albums were stale and a
pale imitation of past glories. Sounds like a textbook 'sell out'
if I've ever heard one hahahhaha.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 06:20
| For me their late works with Waters are a sell out. Their comeback is kinda sell out too, though their music is good all the time. |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 07:05
I`m listening to "Amused to Death" as I type this and I`m not much of a
floyd fan but I have to say that this Roger Waters CD is excellent hasn`t got anything to do with this poll but I just wanted to express my joy ! 
------------- |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 07:06
| Artistically they never sold out. |
Posted By: jonali
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:02
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Actually, they "sold out" a bit already with the release of Arnold Layne and See Emily Play - catchy, disciplined tunes which were a far cry from the terrifying intrumental freakouts they were known for in the London Underground. Then they "sold out" a bit with the release of DSOTM, which is more commercial and song-orientated than the more abstract and spacey stuff they had done from ASOS to Meddle.
And then again, they "sold out" a bit with the release of prog rock's answer to Hits for Kids: The Wall ("We don't need no edu-kay-shun"!) is far more commercial than its two progressive predecessors.
With respect to the last two efforts with Gilmour, I wouldn't say that they have sold out more than Waters - in fact both camps have since the 80's seemed happy to just recirculate their old formulaes from the 70's (that sometimes work perfectly fine). Gilmour worked very hard (with a little help from his friends) to make AMLOR sound more Floydian and mystical, and thus less blatantly commercial. The problem with latter day Floyd (and related) efforts is not that they contain commercial tunes per se - even Ummagumma contains the radiofriendly Grantchester Meadows - but that they do not contain any more experimental stuff. And live, they haven't done much improvisation since the magic pre-Dark Side days.
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Posted By: Dieu
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:05
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"it has also remained the longest standing album on the US Billboard Top 200 chart in history (at over 741 weeks on the chart)."
- Wikipedia, about Dark Side Of The Moon. Guess you could call it a sell out... ------------- Only sick music makes money today. - Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:14
I'd go along with all that. |
jonali wrote:Posted By: proglil49
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:25
That's exactly what I'm thinking ------------- I want to be an astronaut |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:25
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I think they did sell out, when Waters left. This didn't represent a terrible nose dive in the quality of their music IMO. That said, The Final Cut was pretty dire..
When Waters left, they lost their conceptual framework and became 60% AOR and 40% prog IMO. Some may argue that this was inevitable, considering how different Waters contribution had been compared to Gilmours, and also essential for the bands surivial in a new era. When I saw them on the 'Division Bell' tour in '94, the arena was dripping in VW sponsorship regalia. Their pre tour press conference was set against a huge VW logo. Yes, indeed a huge sell out, but in Floyds case it was hardly a hanging offence, unlike in the case of Genesis. Floyd retained their attention to atmosphere, memorable lead guitar lines and some of the Floyd trademarks. Genesis pretty much dispensed with every Genesis trademark they had taken a decade to nurture, and turned to pop. Floyd opened that night in '94 with Astronime Domine, and played all of DSOTM. They are clearly proud of their past. Genesis shun theirs. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:32
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Van Der Graaf sold out? News to me.
Floyd never sold out, they fell apart. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:39
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VdGG sell out all tickets for their gigs ------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005 |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:59
 ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 11:22
| Selling out usually happens when a band is not quite as successful as they should be & so try something to achieve certain goals ($$$). After Dark Side, one would be hard pressed to say that Pink Floyd needed the money. Mind you, from what I've read, monetary problems arose (expensive stage shows, "medications", lengthy studio time ...) that caused the outgo to exceed the income. In general, these accusations will fly when some fans become unhappy with a group's direction; as if an artist's role is to keep repeating past glories ad infinitum. If you're around long enough as a group, you're bound to go through phases, changes, conflicts ... |
Posted By: Jeremy Bender
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 11:42
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'Yes, after Gilmour took over'
Nothing more than a money circus, i find the pulse video boring as hell...as well as delicate sound of thunder, not to mention the awfull amlor although the division bell has it's moments but that's maybe only for sentimental reasons because that record was one of the first records i've heard in my life.
Pink Floyd is absolute one of my favorite bands of all time but I wished they stopped after the wall, pity....(not for their money of course
 ) |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 12:08
 Funny! i was just listening to ''the final cut'' when i came across this poll. This album being so criticized; at least it won't be put down because Waters sold out on this one. At least a critic this album won't get. No ''no son of mine'' here!
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Posted By: danelidou
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 12:34
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I like the Amazing Pudding !! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Danelidou/ http://www.last.fm/user/Danelidou/?chartstyle=colors-10"> 
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 12:57
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Well, selling out can mean different things, as some here have alluded to. Selling out artistically would mean a band deliberately focuses on writing material that will have mass appeal and will conform to radio play requirements. Whereas bands who gain great popularity can be perceived as selling out if they simply become very popular doing whatever they always do. Floyd is an interesting creature in this regard. If you have read any books or interviews about the band, they wanted commercial success from the very beginning. More than anything else. So right from the start they very much wanted to "sell out". However, they were also always determined to do it all on their own terms. That is admirable. But how many of us would pass up the chance to be millionaires? If a certain album gave you massive success, wouldn't you, even unconsciously, try to duplicate that success? I think so. Almost every band that makes music for music and arts sake only is doomed to relative obscurity (modern prog is proof positive of this). The Floyd should be commended for at least maintaining their artistic integrity while still streamlining and simplifying their music allowing the to have huge success. Still, I think when Gilmore brought the Floyd out without Waters, it was more of retirement fund than an actual artistic statement. No one can deny that the albums were more or less Floyd-by-numbers tunes that were simply meant to appeal to the existing (huge) fan base. And it worked. But I won't begrudge them their massive success and huge profits from those albums, and especially tours. I saw two shows on the Division Bell tour (one of them featuring the complete Dark Side) and they were excellent. But it was nostalgia for me and them (I wasn't really listening to much Floyd anymore, even then). Also, it seems to me that when band deliberately change their style with the goal of mass appeal and "pop" success, they generally fail miserably. There are obvious exceptions, like Yes (I don't get the impression that Genesis was trying to be more "pop", I think it was just a natural progression for them after Hackett left). So the bottom line is, who cares if Floyd sold out or not? They were still one of the greatest rock (and prog) bands of all time. |
Posted By: lunaticviolist
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 13:50
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I actually think Floyd almost sold out with DSOTM (the use of back-up
singers annoys the hell out of me, and they clearly abandoned much of
their adventurous psychedelic sound that they inherited from Barrett
and built upon with AHM and Echoes). But whenever I listen to
DSOTM, I realize how un-mainstream it really is, and I'm amazed that it
remains so popular today. Floyd definitely did not sell out
though, as evidenced by WYWH and Animals. After The Wall, they
just fell apart. So, in short...NO!!! And I quite like pudding. ------------- My recent purchases: 
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 13:52
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I resent success ;P but I don't feel pink floyd sold out, but rather that album by album and little by little, it became obvious that aside from the AHM suite which was orchestrated by someone else, their music never was very complex in the first place and they gravitated to what they played best. bwa hahaha ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 14:10
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I prefer pie,and my answer is no. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Father Tiresias
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 16:07
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NEVER! even if they try to "sell out" they never could do that. it's in Floyd's nature!. The Pink Floyd it's just a band apart from the rest!, they just didn't need to do such a thing! -Peace |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 16:47
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I voted "Yes, but in some other way which I will explain below", and here is my explanation: Pink Floyd became more and more pompous with each album. I think the pompousness is already close to "barely bearable" on "The Wall" and definitely afterwards. there are some people who like that kind of overproduced prog; I don't. the recording rechnique is flawless on these albums, but the music is strangely sterile and does not interest me at all
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 17:09
ELP didn't really 'sell out' they just fell off a creative cliff with Love Beach then split up soon after.Genesis and Yes were guilty as charged though
Pink Floyd just got lazy and boring.Same thing perhaps?
 |
Posted By: Kid-A
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 18:12
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erm, no, they just changed as is natural when they loose a member ------------- 
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Posted By: Witchwoodhermit
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 19:15
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[QUOTE=danelidou]
I like the Amazing Pudding !! Yes, great fan mag. I still have a couple years worth of those. Sadly missed.
The Floyd didn't sell out, any more or less, than any other world renowed band.
Occupational hazard.------------- Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 27 2007 at 03:37
they didn't change that much though..just stopped making 'ambitious' music IMO.
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Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: January 27 2007 at 06:55
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What exactly is Pink Floyd supposed to have sold out to anyway. Certainly they used ideas from their older albums, in later years, particularly in the case of David Gilmour but they have the license to do that. They didn't sell out IMO, but they did run out of the imaginative, creative power that impacted and influenced their most experimental albums in the 60s and 70s. The years after are marked more by the groundwork they made in producing and performing the most exciting and creative, hightech concerts. performances. ------------- Eternity |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 27 2007 at 10:12
| NO, they 've never sold out. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 27 2007 at 10:23
Some would argue that represents 'selling out'.Just trundling along and raking in the sales of mediocre albums by the truckload because of the name.
signed .Mr R Waters
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Posted By: An old fart
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 21:42
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Prog-chick already pretty much summed up what I had in mind on this topic, but a few other points as well. As far as I can remember I have never accused any band of "selling out", just because there is no guarantee that the audience will follow like sheep to buy something that the band is - supposedly - offering as a sell out product.
One could say that Marillion sold out with Holidays in Eden, but I read that this relatively easily acceptable album was in fact a financial flop (and I am sure there are other examples of this as well). Also, I find the overall concept of "selling out" a little problematic if not ridiculous. Like someone said on TV ages ago, "the only uncommercial music I am aware of is hymns sang in churches". Are there many professional musicians out there who wish to get rid of their fanbase and avoid getting new audiences? Incidentally I tend to think that because something has happened to sell a lot, say Dark Side of the Moon, some people think in retrospect that it was a conscious decision by the band to try to reach larger audiences on the expense of artistic dignity. May I also twist the term "selling out" inside up a bit? Could repeating the same over and over again represent "selling out"? Therefore, a change in musical direction is always a commercial risk, if one has gained any success in the past. Let's not forget that Pink Floyd had a fair amount of success also BEFORE Dark Side with their psychedelic, spacy rock. As for Floyd's Momentary Lapse of Reason, I think it sounded pretty much like all the other prog bands during that time, like Genesis, Yes and even Rush, notably also Waters' solo effort Radio K.A.O.S. The overall sound of the 80's was of course different from the overall sound of the 70's. I agree with the notion that the Division Bell sounds much like what Floyd did earlier, but not completely. (I think that songs like Cluster One, Marooned, Keep Talking and High Hopes have a strong musical identity of their own.) Now, are those familiar soundscapes of the past a proof of being true to the Floyd sound or grotesquelly selling out? Or maybe Gilmour and other fellow Floydians just felt like doing a nostalgic collection of new songs that could be instantly recognized as a Floyd album. If that was the case, I can't blame them for it. I think they deserved that right after almost 30 years as professional musicians. ------------- "Make tea, not love" |
Posted By: Scapler
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 21:44
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What if I like pudding AND want to pick another one?
------------- Bassists are deadly 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 21:46
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Nah, they basically did what they wanted to in my mind. That progressed from very good to excellent, to orgasmic, to "meh" to "meh but better than the last 'meh.'" ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 21:48
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How am I supposed to vote? I like pudding, but they didn't sell out.
When I doubt, choose pudding, as the old saying goes.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 22:29
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um- pudding.
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Posted By: Corporal Cleeg
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 02:16
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Well I think Pink Floyd Didn t Sell out, I Think too, that when David became de band lider, the band became more comercial, AMLOR is for me the worst pink floyd album, a 6.5/10 And The Division Bell was a nice, goodbye, 7.5/10 ------------- Progressive rock is my medicine. |
Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 08:37
In that case then, there probably isn't a band that has not done that at some time or other throughout their careers. They might be called rock 'gods' but they're still only human (albeit, musically brilliant humans)
By the way, thanks for being so honest Roger.  ------------- Eternity |