Many Rush fans agree that the band, though still interesting, aren't as vital and creative as they used to be. Where the downfall happened (if any) is a matter of contention. I still buy everything they do and give it all plenty of listens/chances, but after 'Grace Under Pressure' my CDs and vinyl have less chances of wearing out.

(special mention to 'Counterparts' and 'Test For Echo', which I think are the most pleasing of the latter-day Rush albums. And their live shows are still top-notch!) C'mon, let's get those friendly fists swingin'! 

Rush have had a 30 career with the current line-up.Obviously there was a period when they were at their most creative relative to now. Longevity seems to work against how they are perceived-and I think this is a tad unfair. Of course they aren't knocking out classics every year which band can or does?

Vapor Trails is a very good album let down by inexplicably poor mastering.Their creative peak ended with Signals, but most albums since then have been very good (with the exception of Hold Your Fire and Presto-and that's only relative to the rest of their output)

In comparison to Genesis, Yes and ELP their career output has been far more consisitent and honest.

They have never had a "downfall". The tour attendances have been phenomenal and the last proper album, Vapor Trails reached No 6 in the USA album chart.Feedback-virtually a novelty album, reached No19.Test For Echo reached No 5.Counterparts reached No 2 !!!!!

In the 80's Waves reached No 4, Pictures reached No3.

That's bloody incredible in my book for a band with virtually no public profile and a hip rating of 0.The figures could suggest a high percentage of loyal fans who buy the albums regardless but come on we are talking top 10 here.All this talk of not being vital or creative is neither accurate, fair nor realistic!

Spartacus wrote: I tend to think all of Rush's output was good up unitl Test for Echo, although the 80s albums are not for everyone.  Starting with Test Rush seams to loose their perfectionist qualities.  Before Test their albums were very meticulously written and recorded and with Test for Echo they went for an edgy sound of the era that destroyed their sound.  Then to wait so many years for End Trails to be released to find out that they do not even know how to use an EQ machine was enough for me.

Yes, right name me a band that masters its own CD's?

This is an issue for the record company-not Rush.

Spartacus wrote: The band ultimatley has the final review and approval before a record is released.

Really? What band is that?  The Rolling Stones maybe.  Most bands do not have final approval and recordings are released all the time without the bands approval.

Rush never fell down. They changed. They won't make another 'Moving Pictures' ever again, but at least every album has certain qualities.

Having said that: I still prefer anything before 'Power Windows' over anything after that.

Rush - was going downhill with Moving pictures with the truly appalling tracks called LimeLight and Vital signs.

Then they released "Signals" a truly awful CD - So appalled I was when listening to this that I promptly vowed never to buy another studio album by them - I Haven't !!!

They lost it?

This is hindsight talking.When they were releasing these albums fresh we didnt think they had lost it.I have bought every album on day of release from AFTK onwards and each of them usually sounded great on first listen. It is only when you compare these albums side-by-side that you can say X is better than y and Z is is the worst.Why use such emotive and negative terms such as "lost it" ? That's just plain silly. I'd rather listen to an "inferior" Rush album than anything Dream Theater have released.That's just my opinion, but I am saying that Rush at their so-called worst are far superior to most bands kicking around here. I dont feel any of their albums have dipped below "good"-its all relative.

Going back to the EQ'ing-the album is a finished product when it goes to be put on CD for public release. It is at this point when the over EQ'ing occurs.

Swinton MCR wrote: Rush - was going downhill with Moving pictures with the truly appalling tracks called LimeLight and Vital signs. Then they released "Signals" a truly awful CD - So appalled I was when listening to this that I promptly vowed never to buy another studio album by them - I Haven't !!!

That's your loss. Limelight a "truly appalling track"? Come off it Swint that statement makes you sound stupid.You might dislike it but to call it "appalling"-give over!

Then again Bolton Yonners* have always had a strange taste.......2112 (track), Farewell to Kings, Hemispheres and Permanent Waves...Rush should have re-visited that style (maybe they did after Signals - I wouldn't know) - These 4 albums will ALWAYS be played by me - i love em to bits.....Why Signals ??

* - Note the flat cap, Shawl, whippet and Black pudding....Ecky Thump !!!

Swinton MCR wrote: Then again Bolton Yonners* have always had a strange taste.......2112 (track), Farewell to Kings, Hemispheres and Permanent Waves...Rush should have re-visited that style (maybe they did after Signals - I wouldn't know) - These 4 albums will ALWAYS be played by me - i love em to bits.....Why Signals ??   * - Note the flat cap, Shawl, whippet and Black pudding....Ecky Thump !!!

Has is ever occurred to you that if they had just re-visited that style as you put it-they would no longer be around. You cant keep peddling the same old stuff and keep it fresh.The majority of Rush fans have stayed for the ride and have been rewarded for it. Like I say it is your loss.

Dream Theater are already flagging if I read this forum correct-go figure.

Reed Lover wrote: They have never had a "downfall". The tour attendances have been phenomenal and the last proper album, Vapor Trails reached No 6 in the USA album chart.Feedback-virtually a novelty album, reached No19.Test For Echo reached No 5.Counterparts reached No 2 !!!!! In the 80's Waves reached No 4, Pictures reached No3. That's bloody incredible in my book for a band with virtually no public profile and a hip rating of 0.The figures could suggest a high percentage of loyal fans who buy the albums regardless but come on we are talking top 10 here.All this talk of not being vital or creative is neither accurate, fair nor realistic!

I don't consider chart placement worthy of the same respect as creative ability. Indeed, Rush still draws huge crowds. But this thread--as most other opinion-gathering polls and discussions on this board--is concerned with the band's creative evolution, not their chart stats. If we were equating downfall with chart placement, then Genesis never had a downfall until 'Calling All Stations'. But maybe downfall is the wrong word. As far as being "accurate", opinions cannot possibly be held to a standard of "accuracy", and that's all I'm asking for is opinions. "Fair" or "realistic" is only if we're slinging around facts, and again, this is a thread for Rush fans who all interpret Rush's work just a little differently from the next person. In the end, I respect Rush without reservation. Next to Genesis they are my favorite band, so I'm definitely not trying to be negative, just analytical (and curious about other Rush fans' opinions...)

Rush have yet to embark on a 'Downfall' IMO

They have always had peaks and troughs in their career. Power Windows was the first significant trough. They improved a little for 'Hold your fire' and improved greatly for 'Presto' and 'Counterparts' The albums that followed were ok, and although they always 'big up' their most recent work - as any artist does - I'd bet any money that their next release will be far superior to 'Vapour Trails' They must be able to look at that album and see its obvious faults like the production.

They are not finished yet. Not like most rock/prog acts that were big in the 70's.

My humble opinion of course

IMO Rush are the most enduring band of the last 30 years.No one bad album in my opinion ,and I include Roll the Bones.

It's true that Rush has had it's fair share of ups and downs, but they always come out on top. I agree that their lowest point was TFE, but that was still a solid effort. Still, they never really did have a downfall. Their apex was definately from 76-82, that's when they created their most well recognized, and overall best work.

To start the downfall, you have to be in the top first, and honestly I don't believe Rush was ever a top prog' band.

OK, flame me or throw me your havelins

Iván

It's quite something isn't it? Apart from U2, I can't think of another big band that has done that.

ZZ Top

The band ultimatley has the final review and approval before a record is released.

Sorry, but in this case, how Vapor Trails (a killer album, IMO) sounds is not the fault of the band. The postproduction engineer was told by somebody (not Geddy, Alex or Neil) to make it "the loudest album on the shelf," a lame attempt to compete sonically with current mainstream rock bands. Though it sounds gritty, I still feel the album is listenable, and represents Neil's best lyricizing and drumming and Geddy's best singing and bass playing in years. If you don't feel similarly, then you haven't listened to the CD since the day you bought it! Songs like "Freeze," "Earthshine," "Nocturne" and "Out Of The Cradle" are amazing! Hell, I love the album. What a comeback after a period of inactivity.

Btw, Vapor Trails sold over 100,000 units its first week of release.

Rush fans constitute a particular culture, but the band, although having its limited popular appeal in the early 80s

"Limited"? Dude, Moving Pictures gained the band over a million new fans, back then. And to this day, Rush, without the marketing campaign afforded acts like Kid Rock and Coldplay, plays large venues. They don't necessarily play stadiums (though down in South America, they can/do  ) but they do play arenas and amphitheaters, not small theaters and clubs, which is all an on-again, off-again group like our beloved ELP can hope to perform in (not our faults). For a "dinosaur rock band," as the critics love to refer to Rush, I can't think of many other bands that have this kind of longevity.

i can't vote because i don't know the albums after hold your fire, but all i can say is that the drop happened somewhere after hold your fire, and power windows is definitely not to blame!

I think they missed their calling and should have become gas station attendants!!

I think it's fair to say that "Hemispheres" was in the top three Prog albums of 1978 (Its better than yes Tormato) - In fact it may be No 1 of the albums I've heard !!!

Thus Rush were No 1 band in 1978 !!

Jim Garten wrote: [a lot of people tend to see 'Signals' as Rush's low point

I Think this album is quiet underrated. I consider it as one of the best albums of Rush. Chemistry and the 1st track are especially excellent! And this is the rare case when generic and synth-oriented sound doesen't spoil the whole picture

Sweetnighter wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: To start the downfall, you have to be in the top first, and honestly I don't believe Rush was ever a top prog' band. OK, flame me or throw me your havelins Iván As a Rush fan I agree. Rush was a cult band, always has been and always will be... not a cult in the sense that Rush fans constitute a particular culture, but the band, although having its limited popular appeal in the early 80s, was always supported by its fans, and I think thats what keeps the band rolling on. ...and if Rush fans do constitute a particular kind of culture, its an awfully geeky one

Did you not read the chart placings I wrote up earlier in this thread?

I thought that Signals was "Techno Pop" when I heard it ! - Geddy Lee should have stayed on Bass whilst getting a Keyboard player in and done a series of Mega-epics whilst exploring the limits of hard/rock and keyboard combination (like DT perhaps ?) - I may re-listen to Signals (it was 20 years ago I listened to it and hated it) - maybe I was wrong !

For me it's easy - Grace Under Pressure.

I kind of see Rush as a band that moved in phases debut to Caress, 2112/AFTK/Hemispheres, Waves/Moving Pictures/Signals and then the phase which takes in Grace/Power Windows/Hold Your Fire.

Presto and Roll the Bones are funny ones as they seem totally lacking any identity, they definitely sound a band in crisis - rudderless, unsure of their place in the world.

I think they kind of rediscovered some momentum with Counterparts (at least in terms of some kind of identity if not compositionally) but for me the band has become increasingly irrelevant over the past 10 years.

I don't think they've had a downfall per se, (their are still some good moments on all their albums) but I do think Grace is where they creatively ran out of steam. It really has only a couple of good songs - Kid Gloves being the standout track IMO. I believe (like Hemispheres) it was a 'difficult' album to record, lots of tension, creative partnerships being sundered (bye bye Terry Brown) etc etc. and I do think it shows.

Thereafter, it was just a case of being sucked into a hideous vortex of '80s production values which have aged very very badly.

I remember hearing Big Money, with its whopping revolving guitar riff, on its release as a single and thinking - 'wait a minute, back on form here boys' and being impressed by Power Windows' huge sound when I got the album. Years go by, however, and that 'recorded in the hull of a rusty ssupertanker' reverb (so popular in the 80s) and the cheesy FM synth sounds and low grade samples on those awful Roland D50s and Korg M1s sound simply dreadful.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if they went and re-recorded those now they would sound a whole helluva lot better and we'd all find that the songs were (underneath the veneer of 80s gloss) really rather good.

What I do find hard to understand though is the almost complete abandonment of keyboards on more recent Rush albums. Not saying they should go make Permanent Waves II (though I would queue outside my record shop to buy that!!) but it seems a startlingly protracted volte face for a band that once so comfortably embraced technology.

Maybe Alex (so hamstrung - by guitar fashion and his own embrace of it - in the 80s) has laid down a marker. Maybe Geddy just got totally fed-up being a programmer rather than a player. But it seems strange.

I know that they were very enthusiastic about bands like Nine Inch Nails in the mid 90s and that may have bearing on it.

But then that kind of interest in new music is a good thing, isn't it? After all being interested in new wave and alternative rock got us Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures (far and away the two best albums they ever made) didn't it?

Ultimately I think you can go to the well so many times before it dries up - either via old age, carelessness or the world simply moving on. Rush's well began to slow to a tricle with Grace. There are still moments to savour on all the subsequent albums but the purity of a Waves or Pictures is unfortunately gone.

If only someone would rescue Ged's double neck Rickenback from the Hall of Fame and sling him a mini-Moog, maybe we'd be back in business.

Then again, at least they never did make their Tubular Bells/Bat Out of Hell II, III, VI MMVIII etc etc and are vital enough to keep moving and exploring. Good on 'em.

Big RUSH fan here...

The last album that's truly brilliant, and that I would recommend to anyone new to the band without a second thought, is MOVING PICTURES.  Up until this album, they had been continuously progressive, always fresh and (most importantly) interesting, not to mention fun to listen to.  If you ask me, there's not a sour note played on everything up to, and including this release.

Things get complicated with the release of SIGNALS, an album almost universally lauded by fans of the band but drowned in 80s synths... took me a while to warm up to the album, but the songwriting is still there (albeit not as exciting as what came before).  Still good, though, and not what I would constitute as a downfall.

The albums that followed in the 80s are often up and down in terms of quality...  GRACE UNDER PRESSURE is definitely up, one of their most underrated albums and often very creative and clever.  POWER WINDOWS is a bit of a step down, although still very much listenable and still has some great tunes on it.  HOLD YOUR FIRE is up, with another peak in songwriting and creativity... not many agree with me on this, but I find the record pretty satisfying.

No, I think their relative downfall happened in the 90s with PRESTO.  They would certainly release fantastic songs here and there on their albums, and certainly a lot of effort was put into them, but I don't get the same excitement and "Rush experience" that I get with almost all of their earlier work....  it's just not there.  Every so often they'll get close to recapturing that former glory (by my estimation, COUNTERPARTS is the closest they got to achieving that "classic album" status), but often their records fade a bit towards the end...

The FEEDBACK EP that was recently released (not to mention two live albums so close to each other) certainly points to the argument that the band is in a pretty comfortable position... I saw live on that tour and they seemed to have a pretty good and relaxed time on stage (and I did watching them), even if the whole thing kind of lingered of "greatest hits tour..."  you know, the time when a band likes to bask in its reflected glory after having worked hard to get to where they are... and there's certainly nothing wrong with that, Rush have definitely earned it.

But if you ask me, we'll never get another masterpiece from these guys... we'll never get an album that breaks the mold or dares to boldy experiment with album long suites or other prog-isms, and again that's fine... Rush are very good at what they now do, but ask any fan and most will tell you that they hope that the band could just take a gamble and lash out with their next release with a prog epic...  I know most of the fans want it, and I know the band knows that the fans want it judging by how loudly the earlier material was cheered at the concert...  We'll just have to wait and see...

Power Windows is the last great album where everything sounds flamboyant.

the 2 ones who voted Rush-rush are probably Led Zeppelin fans

test for echoe is without doubt their most uninspired dreariest affair. I would not even give this to my well educated ( musically that is) 10 year son for a frisbee.

Power Windows started the downward trend but hey they were still hot then. Similar to genesis in a way, although they did not get the same commercial success they definitely lost the edge around 1985.

I felt at the time that Power Windows was the start of their decline, I never really liked that album with the exception of a few songs. But, they picked up considerably after that with Counterparts and Roll the Bones.

The real decline was at 'Test for Echo' IMO. I thought Vapour Trails was better, but neither are very interesting or well produced. I am rarely compelled to play either.

But Reed is right, to be consistently charting, with little public profile in this era of 'less is more' and 'the sh!tter the better' is quite an achievement. They'll always be my favourite band

Give one listen to Rock in Rio, and you can hear these guys still play with the same spirit and prowess.

that said, Rush still pales in comparison to a lot.

JrKASperov wrote: Give one listen to Rock in Rio, and you can hear these guys still play with the same spirit and prowess. that said, Rush still pales in comparison to a lot.

I here what you say JrKasperov,being a three-piece they could never be as complex as say classic Genesis (Vocals,guitar,bass,keys and drums all seperate),but they are as sophisticated as any of the Classic Prog Bands.
Outside the global phenomenon that is Pink Floyd,they are by far the most consistently successful band on these forums.Re-reading this thread it is amazing to realise how ignorant people are of Rush's success.Now before people chip in with the "success(charts/popularity) does not equate to quality" mantra,remember that, as I have stated previously,Rush have no public profile whatsoever,so it must be Prog fans and Classic Rock fans who are buying the albums and attending the concerts.The band has consistently achieved Top 10 USA Album Chart (not rock chart or college chart-the mainstream one)placings since 1980.That's 25 years being at the top.Moving Pictures,Permanent Waves and Signals were Multi-Platinum Sellers and attained TOP 3 in the American and UK album charts.
Vapor Trails,despite it's mastering problems is a damn fine album and when the re-mastered version comes out in July,it will be seen as a triumph of modern progressive rock music.

How can a band that are still together have had a downfall?

I could easily say the majority of comments here are wrong about Power Windows and even more wrong about Vapour Trails but that's just my opinion.  I think 'Hold Your Fire' is their weakest effort but how can it start a downfall? If to any listener's taste a band changes and doesn't push the same buttons anymore that's the end of that relationship but how can one person's (or any number of people for that matter) taste determine a band's downfall? - the answer is it can't.

They've had a successful career and made great records that either touch people or don't and that's the lottery with this whole thing regardless how maticulously you try and produce a great record. 

30 years is a long time to sound the same!  -  Not many band's spring to mind that maintain a sound and it smacks of trying to recreate the same thing over and over which often spells trouble anyway.

The only reason I have casted a vote in this poll is because there thankfully was the option "They haven't lost it yet" - although I'd have to personally omitt the word 'yet' from this choice.

How about a celebratory discussion about some of their great music.  Perhaps not just poll's but actual reasons for liking a song?  Or is that too much to ask for?

VLADO wrote: sorry, i made some mistake, I voiced'never had it, instead ,never have lost it'. please, place it right. i personally like the later things much more (from moving pictures on..) because i found it less spectacular, more mature and profound. but they are great as they are. people should change as well as the music they do.

I dedicated my vote to your wishes, I know too little about their post 90 albums to vote myself, that leaves one vote for they never had it, that shouldn't be there.

As I have often said, I don't think Rush ever lost it; they have a terrifically high quality back catalogue that doesn't have one album I can single out as bad; I am a huge fan of their '76-'81 albums in particular, but I also like the albums before then and after that a lot.

They went for a more streamlined, keyboard based approach in the 1980s, but unlike Genesis or Yes' 80s excursions, they still kept the content progressive in my opinion- still plenty of head spinning musicianship and complex time signatures.

Their more recent 'back to basics' work since 'Presto' show a great deal of maturity as well, especially lyrically.

Fantômas wrote: Downfall? Rush never released good stuff to have a downfall...

Well put,apart from content,accuracy and style,that's a great post.

RUSH GAVE SOME OF THE BEST PROG ALBUMS BACK ON THE 70'S AND EARLY 80'S.THEY DIDN'T RELEASED SOMETHING THAT GREAT AFTER GRACE (EXCEPT COUNTERPARTS WHICH IS SIMPLY GREAT) BUT NONE OF THEIR ALBUMS LACKED IN INTLIGENCE UNIQUE STYLE AND CREATIVITY.

CAN ANYONE NAME A BAND WITHOUT WEAK MOMENTS? AFTER ALL THE INFERIOR RUSH ALBUMS SOUND BETER THAN THE POP ALBUMS GENESIS OR YES RELEASED.

OR CAN YOU TELL ME A BAND THAT GAVE 5 MASTERPICES IN A ROW (2112 TO MOVING PICTURES)?

AND FINALY THEY NEVER STOPED TO INSPIRE NEW GROUPS NOT ONLY FOR THEIR 70'S ERA.