Yes, are recent albums spoilt?
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Topic: Yes, are recent albums spoilt?
Posted By: longliveyes
Subject: Yes, are recent albums spoilt?
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 19:25
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Hi every one i am a newbie but would like to ask your opinion on this
Do you think Jon Anderson has spoilt Yes recent releases by over singing and dominating the songs.I would love to hear more musical passages interspersed with Jon,s singing
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Replies:
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 20:36
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I think not, that he hasn´t, no for the negative... ...maybe a little ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 21:26
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Not really. ------------- 
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 21:28
| the songs have been the problem not his voice. |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 22:45
| The songs were not all written by Jon, most were collaberations. Therefore if any spoiling was done, it would be a group effort. |
Posted By: kiwi
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 23:25
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There are some very good songs, both on magnification and the ladder. They are not the same as the earlier classical period in the 70's but they have their own strengths. IMHO he does not oversing them. And from another perspective the voice is another instrument. In the classical period, bands were producing songs of 20 minutes plus with extended instrumentation. Are any bands doing that successfully now? ------------- We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah) music |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 00:17
| It depends on how you define successfully, but the short answer to your question is yes. |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 00:47
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Long songs aren't really that rare anymore.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 05:00
| I totally agree that he's spoiling them. Especially since his lyrics are far too sugary and preachy. (It was more fun in the old days, when they were merely incomprehensible.) And what ever happened to Messrs. Wakeman and Howe - do they have nothing left to prove? |
Posted By: kiwi
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 05:41
I like the point about the incomprehensible lyrics - I still can't figure lots of them out. But the years have rolled on and ideally we accumulate wisdom and perhaps have more to say. Take this song for instance - Soft as a Dove from Magnification Soft as a dove Touching the hand that lays next to me Innocent light Leading us through a moment in time Then you came home I let you cry like a father should do Innocent light Leading us to a moment in time (lyrical quote edited) This was written by a father talking about his child - it is a gift to be able to put sentiments such as these to beautiful words and music. As a person who believes in God the lyrics "if we were flowers we would worship the sun, so why not now.." resonate deeply with me. And it is complimented by a spacey haunting albeit short solo by Steve Howe. Rock music was once dominated by young men. As the field is now more mature, the range of expression is more diverse. There are plenty of people that are turned on by lyrics such as these and I actively look for that which elevates the mind. If they are not to your liking there is a lot of choice out there. ------------- We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah) music |
fuxi wrote:Posted By: mickcoxinha
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 08:07
| I don't think the recent Yes works are spoiled, because though not as good as most of their early albums, The Ladder and Magnification are very good and much better than the 80's and early 90's albums. |
Posted By: everyone
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 14:32
| Jon's voice is as great as ever. The writing of the music is just a little bland. Some of the music on Magnification and The Ladder have the "old" Yes feel, but I think they should just tour because their statement has been made and there is nothing that they can do that can better what they did together in the 70's. Or they are just trying to hard to top what they have done. Maybe they need to ask Peter Banks back into the group. Who knows.... |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 14:45
Ok, you have described the Rabin era/ ABWH era rather well. Yes has moved on from that, thank God, and the lyrics are a bit better nowadays. (Sadly, Jon's vocal talents reached their height in the Rabin era, however.)
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Posted By: kiwi
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 15:06
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Ok, you have described the Rabin era/ ABWH era rather well. Yes has moved on from that, thank God, and the lyrics are a bit better nowadays. (Sadly, Jon's vocal talents reached their height in the Rabin era, however.) [/QUOTE]While I am a big yes fan (I started with Close to the Edge) I gave up after Drama. I only played drama a few times. It wasn't so much the lyrics - the music lost the x factor it had in their classical period. To a large degree they have recaptured the x factor with the ladder and magnification - especially magnification. So there is a gap in my knowledge ( and my collection) between Drama and the ladder -have I missed much? ------------- We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah) music |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 15:31
| I haven't heard too much of the newer stuff, but I remember liking Mind Drive when they played it live in 2004 so I can't really say. |
Posted By: longliveyes
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 15:36
| Wakeman is spent on ideas but still a great player I feel Howe still has something to offer if Anderson would let him. Bring in Steve Wilson to produce them, a great album would come of it. |
Posted By: longliveyes
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 15:41
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He dominates the Magnification Album with oversinging from start to finish |
Posted By: longliveyes
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 15:51
| _popupControl(); nothing |
Posted By: Flucktrot
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 17:08
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Anderson sounds better now than he did on Yes' first album in my opinion--the man is one of those rare vocalists that really hasn't lost much over the years, like Steve Winwood. ------------- Thank you, God of Rock, for this chance to kick ass |
Posted By: kiwi
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 17:14
I agree totally. His live performance on Symphonic Live is stunning - and the live harmonies from the others are very impressive. I understand Chris Squire is the vocal arranger. ------------- We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah) music |
Posted By: longliveyes
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 17:17
His sound is still excellent i agree but he is all over the newer songs like a rash
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 20:55
hadn't really thought of it.. .and don't listen to the recent stuff much.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 01:32
25 years of Yes. Not the best years, but still you've missed 25 of them. You could always check out my reviews, as I believe I've reviewed just about everything post-Tormato.
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 01:37
I spin KTA I and II a fair amount, and The Ladder a bit less. Other than the odd listen to Union or Big Generator, I tend to stick to pre-Tormato tracks nowadays.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 02:53
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Concise, creative, inspired, melodies. That is all that is needed. The rest will flow. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: dedokras
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 05:32
| The only recent album I listen to is Open Your Eyes, with the exclusion of one or two tracks it's quite listenable and the vocals don't bother me (well, the lyrics are kind of cheesy here and there but Jon has always been this way). I don't like the other recent albums but Jon's singing is very good as usual so it seems the vocals are not the problem, it is the overall music quality. |
Posted By: Evandro Martini
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 07:30
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I agree that Jon has been spoiling Yes, not by oversinging, but by his melodies. Jon has been composing vocal melodies since the very start of the band. He has never studied composition in a school or something like that, but until Tormato he created delightful melodies, not even one poor melody. But since then he seems to have lost his composing talent almost completely. If one hears Jon singing on Lightning Strikes or That, That Is, it's almost unbeliavable that the same person created melodies such as (the vocal parts from) And You And I and Heart of the Sunrise. So I credit him to spoiling Yes. Squire is still excelent making harmonies and countrpoints, Steve has created beautiful solo albums (Natural Timbre, from 2001, is my favourite), Rick Wakeman has also made some good ones, so I can only conclude it's Jon who lost his talent. Another problem in Yes recent albums is that, now they're older and have their own families and live in different cities, they can't have the same style of composing from the 70s, when they saw each other everyday, and every song had ideas of each member... ------------- "You’ll never make any money playing music that people can’t sing.” Keith Emerson's father |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 09:20
| I don't think it's so much a case of Anderson spoiling the more recent stuff with his vocals, it's more a case of musically anything post 1980 is inferior to all the classic 70's material IMO regardless of the singing. Interestingly the best Yes tracks of the later years are the ones where they do stretch out like Mindrive and Homeworld which are closer to their seventies style than most of the other material from recent years. |
Posted By: endlessepic
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 12:10
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I've always Jons singing but in truth at times I think its a bit much that I have to really enjoy the music to get past it (I got this feeling with Relayer) Its a group effort though |
Posted By: kiwi
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 12:20
To a large extent I agree. MAybe somehow we have to move on. For example, in the sixties the electric guitar was discovered and popularised and by the seventies had become the flagship of rock. Screeming guitar solos became essential. I still love a good solo - brings tears to my eyes, but after a while nothing really new emerges. You can watch good blues guitarists but after awhile you tire of it. Steve Vai can get boring quite quickly. There are alot of derivative bands that use the formulas the great prog bands have developed, but often the result is the form without the creative spark. There will be members who could elaborate on how Western music has evolved through baroque and classical periods etc, with change coming with the advent of genius or new instruments (like the piano). Mozart and Vivaldi are my favourites. So is this the era of post-modern prog, where all the instruments have been invented and mastered. The challenge now is to capture the creative spark and explore various fusions? ------------- We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah) music |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 13:49
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Still a great singer, but IMO he ruined Magnification for me.........or the band did by filling the songs with vocals. There are just too many of them. It's hard to focus on the music underneath at the vocals are so prominent. Some of the lyrics are decent, some quite bad to my ears. But mostly, I just wish they would have let the songs breath a little, done some interesting instrumental parts to off set the every present vocals. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 14:51
| I dont think he does. Magnification and the ladder are the best yes albums since the 80s. |
Posted By: kiwi
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 15:35
Yes I agree they recaptured their form. I was refreshing to rediscover them. ------------- We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah) music |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 01:56
I don't blame Jon for Magnification (which falls about average for a Yes album for me.) I think it's more or less a case of the band being short of good ideas at the time (kind of like with Union but not nearly so uninspired.) The only thing that I really blame Jon for spoiling is That, That Is. It's such a great song if you can block out the second and third parts, and I think you can make a good case that Jon bears a lot of the responsibility for why it falls short.
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Posted By: Evandro Martini
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 10:04
Totally agreed! The song begins perfectly, but then... it has too many lyrics! ------------- "You’ll never make any money playing music that people can’t sing.” Keith Emerson's father |
Posted By: Anathema
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 12:03
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I'don't think he has spoilt it. But some more musical passages could have been possible. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mousoleum
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 17:57
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Jon Anderson is awesome...nuff said. But if I were to pick at modern Yes a bit, I'd have to agree that Anderson's whimsical lyrics have turned from ambiguous zen-nature chantings to the south side of sappy. Have you seen them live since Open Your Eyes??? "So real, so real, I love my wife. Oh, sweet Janey!" It's enough to drive you mild. The lyric that ruined Magnification for me: "Through the eyes of child." Ouch. Car horns need to stay out of music. Stick to rivers, Mr. Anderson. Since I'm being picky.. Is it just me, or has Steve Howe forgotten how to create chord structures? It's all solos and scales these days. Don't get me wrong, he's a master, but lets here some more blues, more feeling, more songwriting. Lets see those jazz chops put to better use in the future. |
Posted By: kiwi
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 18:20
Excellent thoughts and I also acknowledge Jon Anderson's ability. I agree about the car horns - also cell phones. Such lyrics shatter the illusion that Yes is some mystical entity that lives on another planet in some topographic ocean  . Perhaps it is no coincidence that Don't go is the worst song (IMO) on MAgnification.However I love the lyrics with a spiritual bent such as: Deeper than every ocean Deeper than every river That’s what your presence brings to me Revealing the words I listen Seeing you in my silence Learning I’m with you constantly As I was before If we were flowers We would worship the sun So why not now? This high is shining brightly Brighter than before ------------- We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah) music |
Posted By: Thandrus
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 21:56
| Jon Anderson's singing on Magnification is IDEAL (Actually I think Magnification in Yes' best album). And about his lyrics... one should never try to find any reason in them, mostly :) But they do create such a strange atmosphere... You're the song from the book of time, hehe :)) |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 10:23
Only if you leave them out too long. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Evandro Martini
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 13:46
I completely disagree. Steve has done wonderful solo albums (better than the two he did in the 70s, IMO) and if you hear them you'll see many examples of masterful harmonic work. For example, in his Quantum Guitar, from 1998, there's a 10-minutes-long song, Suddenly, with carefully chord progressions, in a way that ressembles Mike Oldfield, the song changes a lot but always seems to continue in the same harmonic patterns (though they do change, the listener doesn't notice). His album Natural Timbre (2001), all with acoustic guitars, is his best one IMO, and features originally structured songs such as Piramidology, and the lovely Intersection Blues. If someone in recent Yes has not lost his talent, it is Steve. ------------- "You’ll never make any money playing music that people can’t sing.” Keith Emerson's father |
Posted By: Mousoleum
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 16:04
Ok, I might have been a little unfair. I guess I need to pick up his solo albums! Just when you think you're done with the Yes discography... I suppose if Pete Townshend saved his best material for his solo work, Mr. Steve Howe would as well. Thanks for the tip! |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 02:19
Agreed. Steve has completely recovered from the dive in proficiency he suffered through the Asia years and afterward.
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Posted By: Clepsydra
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 12:45
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I don't listen to Yes that much anymore.
Love them, but, don't care for the latter stuff that much.
I am more a "Neo Man"
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