Is Progressive Rock Dead?
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4547
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Topic: Is Progressive Rock Dead?
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Is Progressive Rock Dead?
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 04:45
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I believe we can all agree that the seventies were the Golden Age of Progressive Rock. Then punk came and did it's work, crushing the hippies and the freaks and the space rockers. Many bands suffered mightily, from the most accomplished (Yes, Genesis, ELP) to the somewhat controversial (Pink Floyd, Styx, Supertramp) to even the not really progressive at all but still pretty damn good (Neil Young, The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan). But we survived. We lived on in the art schools and the music halls. We stayed in the cracks and watched the punks slip and fall into the commercialism they so despised. But lo, something even more wicked appeared on the horizon. You know of what I speak, brethren. Hip-Hop. Boy bands. Britney Spears' ass. In short, the beginnings... of JIGGINESS!! But we lived. We even made peace with the punks, albeit a most fragile kind of peace. But I fear we have been struck the worst kind of blow by our own selves. We have crippled our founding ideologies. We are no longer progressive. We have become shadows of ourselves. We no longer seek to progress. We instead sit in our basements, listening to Genesis and Jethro Tull and Rush, RUSH, saying to ourselves,"Man, I wish I could do that!" and going out and doing just that... mimicing the ideas of the past generation. We have invested ridiculous rules, like "Thou shalt be ungodly skilled (yet not necessarily talented) at thy instrument, Thou shalt not write short songs, Thou shalt avoid at all costs the sinful beat of 4/4" And by creating those traditions, we have corrupted our most sacred tenet... TRADITIONS ARE BAD, UNIQUENESS IS GOOD. We flinch at the wild meanderings of such bands as Radiohead and the Mothers of Invention simply because they do not follow our own established preconceptions. PRECONCEPTIONS!! Do you hear me? We are not progressive!! We have become pop. Pop with tedious structures, overpracticed noodling, and bad poetry, but still pop. Where are your spines, ladies and gentleman? Don't you realize that Robert Fripp, the guitarist who inspired, not to mention played on, just about half of the prog albums in the seventies, has publicly announced many, many times that he is not a member of the progressive rock crowd? He is ashamed, as I am. The Captain has retired to the desert, the Father of Invention is dead, and the King himself has denied our existence. In summary: Do something new before even our children's children's children are forced to sit through Calling All Stations. |
Replies:
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 05:26
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I'm a bit lost. Are you saying that modern prog bands merely imitate their former masters?? If so, I would agree to an extent, but as for the ridiculous rules regarding not writing short songs, avoiding 4/4 etc, you clearly have not heard Marillion and IQ who freqently write short songs and work in 4/4. Neither Radiohead or The mothers of invention are to everyones taste, but then again niether is Genesis or Yes. Taste is an individual thing, and for the record I do regard Radiohead as progressive. Not really sure what you're trying to say. As for Fripp? He is a member of the progressive rock crowd whether he likes it not. Its a fundamentally stupid, and highly pretentious claim on his part. Its the same as all the goths strutting about in the early 80's saying 'I'm not a goth, I just wear black on the outside because its how I feel on the inside' Fripps music was always inovative and challenging, but these artists do tend to climb up their own arses. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 05:38
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Actually, I'm a pretty big Marillion fan. The Phish stuff, anyway. Excellent lyricist. I'm a little iffy on IQ, but my girlfriend loves their work, so I can't say anything bad about them. It's just that I so rarely hear something makes me say to myself, 'Whoah, what the hell is this?' I miss when progressive bands were unique and challenging musically. I don't know, maybe I've listened to Trout Mask Replica too much, and have had my ears overexposed to complex music. I ;ve spent the past ten years buying every obscure prog album I can find and trying to find some new sound or arrangement that sounds new. I don't think we've exhausted ourselves, I think maybe our nostalgia is just getting in the way of progress. I should probably admit my definition of 'progressive' runs a different course than the one most fans use. I despise the word genre. I want something bizarre and I want it now. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:09
Maybe try 5uus, Thinking Plague, After Crying, Forever Einstein or any of the other innumerable modern groups that are TRULY ORIGINAL. The problem is not that prog is dead, but that most prog fans are concentrating on the wrong modern stuff - neo-prog. Truly new and progressive music is still being churned out in vast quantities but most of the original prog fans are happier reliving the past with the likes of IQ or Marillion than they are with anything genuinely innovative. Prog isn't dead and will never die as long as artists push the boundaries - and the real artists will always do that. |
FuzzyDude wrote:Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:21
Go out and buy Frances the Mute, today  ------------- We Lost the Skyline............ 
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Posted By: Radioactive Toy
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:28
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Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. Just to copy velvet
Yeah, I'm more into metal..
Just go for Kayo dot.. it's bizarre.. trust me! -------------  
Reed's failed joke counter: ||||| R.I.P. You could have reached infinity.... |
.. And there is a lot of territory to discover.. just think about metal.. it has had just 10-15 years.. The rock side 30-35!!! Really boundries breaking bands are:Posted By: chorus of one
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:33
| Not exactly dead. I prefer to think of it as a flesh eating zombie that shuffles along really slowly and likes brains. Know what I mean? |
Posted By: Pixel Pirate
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:47
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Short answer: Yes,and so is all rock music. ------------- Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:01
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My god... Keith Emerson in tights. And he's not chubby. *drools* Uhm, anyway... I've heard several of those bands, but I'll comment on the Mars Volta, since they seem to be the biggest thing since Phil Collins was prog. *considers Collins to be one of the most bizarre anomalies in modern music* I rather respect the Mars Volta for having the balls to fuse punk with progressive methodology and at the same time, keep the respect they've earned in both fields. I tried the exact same thing with my band a long time ago and failed miserably... or at least never quite got off the ground. (I was the bassplayer/lyricist by the way) The fact that they succeeded is quite an achievement...
...though to be honest, I sometimes wish they would write intelligible lyrics. I had to pay 15 dollars to buy the f*cking book that explained the storyline on Deloused in the Comatorium. How dare they exploit their fans like that?! Why not just print the explanation in the godd*mn CD booklet in the first place?! Instead, I have to deal with surrealist quotes. I positively DESPISE Surrealism! Don't give me that 'landscapes of the mind' sh*t, you're forcing ME to listen to it! If I wanted landscapes of the f*cking mind, I'd join a f*cking cult and take acid all day long, you d*ckweed!! On another note... ELP still have yet to be surpassed as the hottest looking trio in progressive music. |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:10
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You could have looked up an explanation on the internet
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Radioactive Toy
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:26
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Let say it in an other way then.. a sound-wall? (I would said it in dutch that way).. The mars volta is the only one I'm not really 100% sure of.. since I haven't had the ehm.. I'm just too lazy to listen to them -------------
Reed's failed joke counter: ||||| R.I.P. You could have reached infinity.... |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:28
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:43
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Sorry, but WHY should you have to understand lyrics? ESPECIALLY in Prog! Prog's about the music, not the words - as any Yes fan ought to testify! I'd say about a third of my music collection's in foreign f***ing languages but that doesn't bother me, and it shouldn't bother you either. It's not as if they forced you to buy that book. It was simply released, and you decided to shell out your cash for it. And what's wrong with a bit of surrealism? I'd say most prog is pretty surreal, as like the visual aspects of surrealism, prog is music without boundaries (except those are self-imposed). In short, don't be such a baby. And listen to After Crying (who I'm now convinced are the greatest modern prog act ever). That is all. |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:46
 Well said, I couldnt possibly fathom much of the stuff I own that IS in my own language but this has never reduced my listening pleasure ------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:51
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Oh, well... Cedric Bixler-Zavala (The Mars Volta lead singer dude) was probably influenced by Jon Anderson and I have quite a soft spot for Jon Anderson. In fact, the Mars Volta are the new Yes!! Except for uhm, you know, Yes actually still being around and touring frequently... and probably still being able to play better than most bands at the height of their virtuosity. Limey bastards. Always gotta have the best guitarists, the best keboardists, the best drummers!! So smug about having Clapton, Beck, Page, Howe, Bruford, Gabriel, Fripp, Entwhistle, Squire, Wakeman, Anderson, and what do Americans have? Hendrix! And then he moves to England!! I tell you, the British are crippling the American music industry by hogging all the good musicians. It's a scam, I tell you, a f*cking conspiracy! Either that, or Americans are really as lazy as everyone says they are. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:54
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On the matter of surrealism... I'm a dadaist and a well-known satirical rogue. What comes out of my mouth has as much basis as that seventh note in Chopin's 12th symphony... none. |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 08:03
------------- THIS IS ELP 
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) I agree!!Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 08:25
| *bows* Thank you, thank you... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 08:33
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...prog is dead
but not in our hearts! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 09:50
Thats fair enough. I guess, I'm less into the 'bizarre' although everyone I know would disagree and say that I'm a freak because I have a few Yes albums. I tend to like 'progressive' music which is more focussed on melody and/or excitement. I'm less into the experimental. I like music to sound like music ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Alucard
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 09:51
Progressive Rock just left the building...
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 10:07
------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 10:11
Why, thank you, Mr. Sword. I like melody too, so much that I own several Beatles albums. *a gasp is heard somewhere offscreen* That's right, baby, I like really well-done POP!! *more gasping offscreen* Muahaha!!! But yeah, I know what you mean. Dissonance and atonal jamming are all good and well, but at the end of the day, I think we all just want to hear something pleasant. |
Posted By: Captain Fudge
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 10:12
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Neo-prog bored me to tears,.Script For a Jester's Tear vs. Lateralus??? The only good prog acts nowadays, are, IMO, either art-rock or prog-metal ------------- 
Teenage sucks hard -- Emo sucks even harder Epic. Simply epic. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 10:16
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Art rock!! No inborn pretensions or required modes of presentations!! I really wish Mr. Art Rock hadn't changed his first name. Art Rock just says it all. "I am an artist and my medium is rock music" The word 'progressive' just raises too many expectaions, in my opinion. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 10:18
well said! the level is so low today in popular music that when a band knows to play two notes, they are labelled "prog"! what a shame! On the other hand, there are a few good artists who would merit to be called prog today, in the jazz/world area or whatever other style! |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 10:23
neo prog is worst than mainstream! nothing to do with real 70's prog |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 10:30
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*likes Lateralus more* Even though I'm not all that fond of anything Tool did before it. But their new bass player is so talented! He plays melodies, for crying out loud! |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 13:02
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HEY! first of all, neo prog is excellent! this is not mainly a brain music; it is a music for your heart and soul! it is emotional music: clepsydra, collage, iq, pendragon, jadis, iluvatar, magenta, violet district are THE bands. prog is more alive than ever! for those who hate the previous neo prog bands, stop complaining about the nullity of mars volta, radiohead and tool: they are too mainstream and bizarre; just rather look at the refined transatlantic, glass hammer, after crying, neil morse, echolyn and univers zero among others: they RULE! the keyword here is IGNORANCE! ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 13:08
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if prog was dead then this site would definetly be in danger. i am very pleased with the current output of some of the newer prog bands, and of those which are still going. Dream Theater, The Mars Volta, Opeth, Godspeed You Black Emperor! etc are all great and going good. also we all seem to still be loving the giants from the early years of prog. ------------- The Worthless Recluse 
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Posted By: Swinton MCR
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 15:09
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Prog is about as dead as Opera.....It is listened to by a fanatical bunch of supporters for whom it is the best form of music - I don't want prog to become popular ! - Well a bit more popular but never mainstream................. ------------- Play me my song, here it comes again |
Posted By: RockFire309
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 15:44
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Prog is not necessarily 'dead'.....perhaps mutated to a different form, which all genres do, sometimes without reason: Rock, soft rock, hard rock, heavy metal, thrash, speed, death, grindcore, hardcore, industrial, etc.
It's like standing at a crossroad....all the roads look identical, but you aren't sure which to take. I say take as few, as many, just one, all, or none at all and go straight up instead. I read the opening to this discussion and it was deep because of the media that supports the pop/boyband/diva/hip-hip/gangsta rap/redneck excuse for music in general, the fat-cat record labels that pay money to radio stations to play their stuff and keep the "little guys" off the airwaves as much as possible. The industry, in and of itself, has driven it's most creative and expressive artists underground, but just because we're under the ground my friends does NOT mean we are buried.....................The money that fuels the media circus sideshow that is forced upon the younger generation that knows not what REAL music is........fate brought us all here, to this very place and time, this very site itself. If only the public eye weren't so prejudiced against it, or as a friend of mine once said, "It's not that they don't like Prog, it's that they just don't get it." I'll stop before I get out of hand, but do you agree or am I missing something? ------------- "If you open your mind for me, you won't rely on open eyes to see..." |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 16:02
Nah, that all makes sense
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: hightea
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 16:40
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You know 5 or 10 years ago I might agree that Prog is only left in a small circle of bands that mostly stand in the 70's sound but I'm going to have to disagree now. The past few years I'm seeing a trend in non-prog oriented rock music toward using more instrumentation and more complexed arangements. To me it seems that the crap mainstream pop and mainstream fake punk is finally driving musicians to create interesting music again. Once again I'm not talking the current prog bands I'm talking rock bands most of them are still local and small. The success that bands like Mars Volta is having is amazing (Note I don't like them) because the people liking them are the band of people who would shun this stuff 10 years ago. Also I'm seeing lots of teens enjoying 70's music a sign that when they pick up a guitar they won't be playing 3 minute punk tunes. Don't believe me but its coming.
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Posted By: Yams
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 17:19
| The Arts are cyclical. Modern, Neo Modern; Classicism, Neo Classicism; etc. For those waiting for a return of the Golden Years of prog where bands sang about dragons, valleys, and gutterflies, those days will return eventually. Maybe not in the exact same form, but something similar will come around. Patience. |
Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 11:05
Agree! It is possible that prog will become popular again. There is some kind of cycle: complexity-simplification-complexity etc. Rock music in general is also retrieving it's popularity. Some prog fans don't like more comercial prog and semi-prog bands like Radiohead, Coldplay, Mars Volta, Dream Theater, Tool, Opeth... but this bands bring hope for prog getting more attention in the future. Prog is not dead. It's just underground. Many new bands and old bands have been making excellent new prog albums in the recent years - nowadays well versed prog fans listen to: a) Old bands making new albums: MAGMA, HAPPY THE MAN, UNIVERS ZERO, METAMORFOSI, CONGRESO etc. b) new bands: AFTER CRYING, THINKING PLAGUE, AMAROK (from Spain), MINIMUM VITAL, FRENCH TV, DISCUS, JONO EL GRANDE, ALEXL, CLOGS, ECLIPSE, ISIDULRS BANE just to name a few! There's no need to whine for the good old days when we have so much good new music! |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 14:40
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It's going to be just as stupid as the first time I did it, but here goes nothing...
Prog's not dead!!!!
------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 17:24
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Progressive Rock, as a viable commercial product, is dead. However, as far as the music itself and the quality of the musicians in the underground prog movement, it is defintely alive and well, just not on the "commercial" radar. That is okay, really. I've noticed that I don't get worn out by the current music. I don't hear it all over the radio or pouring from the car windows of every dinkhead with a subwoofer cruising up and down the street. It's more personal and intimate. There are plenty of quality band out there that give me as much pleasure as the 70's classic prog. Some even more so. Echolyn, anyone? |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 17:33
Hold your horses there Danbo! Whilst not to my own tastes,The Mars Volta are selling by the bucketload in the US charts and this could lead to an upsurge in Prog Rock-certainly guitar-driven prog rock at least.Who knows we could be on the cusp of a revival.Lets see how the more straightforward rock of the new Porcupine Tree fares next. As for Echolyn,sorry buddy but they are too 70's. ------------- 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 17:47
| Well, I wouldnīt say dead, but itīs definitly not at itīs peak. Pretty sad... But there are still bands and some new also, take the Mars Volta for example, they are without a doubt the best band to come out in the last years...so no, itīs not dead... itīs just in coma. |
Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 18:30
Sorry, but TMV is not the best band to come out recently. They are just a well-known and successful band. Other prog bands are much stronger compositionally. A good musical composition has a good theme developement and overall cohesion. I can't hear this in TMV's music. They don't do anything interesting with musical material other than just repeating things and adding new things. This common imperfection distinguishes between good and mediocore bands... TMV is mediocore. Echolyn are maybe retro but they're much better. For me they're modern and creative enough to be one of the best recent bands... Prog is not in coma. It's very much alive but in some kind of reservation - isolated from mass public. Other protamb |
Posted By: Glass-Prison
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 19:00
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Godspeed you black emperor is quickly becoming one of my favourite bands. Not just for that cool, meditative, kraut-rock sound, but for the fact that they can be entirely progressive without living up to any of the expectations of the genre. For example, the band hardly uses any synthesizers; rather it is done acoustically. Oh, and whether or not you like the Mars Volta, it proves that progressive rock will always thrive when you least expect it. ------------- Sun Tsu said: To fight and conquer in your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. Sun Tsu: The art of War |
Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 19:06
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If you want something new and you like genesis, i suggest listening to The Watch. Their album Vacuum will not dissapoint. |
Posted By: topographic2112
Date Posted: March 26 2005 at 08:47
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I don't think Porg's totally dead, just not totally out there as it used to be, but there plenty of bands out there keeping the spirit of prog-rock alive. In the case of The Mars Volta, I think they're definitely bringing it back and I'm sure that prog may become noticed again. Hell, look at the sales of their album Frances The Mute. When was the last time you saw a porg album in the top ten on the charts?! A long, long time!!! I think it may be making a come back. ------------- "Rock is the medium of our generation." - Yes - "Release, Release" |
Posted By: Eddy
Date Posted: March 26 2005 at 19:07
| this is stupid. prog rock is Flourishing! FLourishing! mabyee it wasnt the Beast it was back inb the seventys, but it is still strong, either in a different tyrpe of form then normal 70's symphonic! one CLEar example that prog rock is not dead is the Power of opriz tenticles, they are one of the strongest bands out thre, and outside the us they are recieving mUch etention.! They show no sides of dyiong out yet< there newist cd is so farf i think threre best, its a spraling masterpeice! The prog beasrt may have turned into a slithering snake butyou Shall find out it is not easy for Such things in general to be wiped out. The snake is nhot extinct! there will always be people who like prog, as there will be people who will always like jazz or classical, or rock, or anything,its scetched into super Indistrutible STone! |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 08:10
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Progressive Rock is practically dead. The only decent things I've heard from the last few years are Godspeed You Black Emperor, Mr. Bungle and The Mars Volta. The Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Dream Theater, Symphony X, nothing really new or progressiv there... |
Posted By: Velvetclown
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 08:15
Not dead, only tired !!! 
------------- Billy Connolly Dream Theater Terry Gilliam Hagen Quartet Jethro Tull Mike Keneally |
Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 09:31
No I see why so many prog fans think prog is dead! Prog fans are "dead" because they don't know other bands than Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Dream Theater, Symphony X... That's sad because there are SO MANY other good bands revealing the vitality of todays prog movement... |
Posted By: Velvetclown
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 09:32
------------- Billy Connolly Dream Theater Terry Gilliam Hagen Quartet Jethro Tull Mike Keneally |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 09:55
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Just because the bands nowadays follow the traditions and styles of their heroes from the 70's doesn't make it any less original or viable than the fathers of prog. Everybody was influenced by someone...even King Crimson..weather it be from Jazz or a simpler rock version...Robert Fripp must of had some hero. My room-mate is a musician and loves David Gilmour and when he creates a guitar piece one can tell he has been influenced by David Gilmour. The piece is still original and not plagiaristic in any sense. I am sure he is not thinking..."How can I create a piece of music that will sound somewhat like David Gilmour"..it just does because David is an influence of his. If one would come up to him and say you're a David Gilmour copy cat He would probably tell ya to "Piss off"...because he doesn't feel like he plagiarized anyone. Progressive rock has a broad group of guidelines that define the genre...if someone would buck the trend and not follow any of those guidelines the song would belong to an entirely different genre anyway. We all listen to prog because of the unusual time signatures/changes, length, the usage of unusual instruments, concept lps, etc....and yet we complain when the band nowadays have been influenced by Genesis, Yes or whatever. Is the piece still original? Of course! Progressive rock is still just a sub genre of rock so maybe all of it is rubbish and unoriginal since they weren't the creaters of rock, jazz, classical, or blues! How ridiculous!!! As rock continues to age it gets harder and harder to be the trailblazers as the musical library becomes larger and larger. Musical instruments can only do so much and there is still a limitation to their range. To expect something totally different from our bands nowadays when rock has been around for half a century is expecting too much. Put yourself into their shoes and see if you can come up with something that is completely new and still progressive.....you can't do it under those guidelines. We are fans of progressive rock...which follows guidelines and will be influenced by the bands of the 70's and that is okay. There is no way around it, unless you are so close minded to only listen to the 70's since they're the only "original" ones. The 70's catalogue is limited and if I can increase the limits by expanding into the 80's and on I am going to do it. So my answer is progressive rock is certainly not dead! Now go out and buy some Echolyn, Porcupine Tree, Arena, and Salem Hill and try not to be such a close minded schmuck and enjoy the music. |
Posted By: Hiwatter
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 15:52
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All who think that current progressive music is dead, please listen to some clips on http://www.cuneiformrecords.com - www.cuneiformrecords.com |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 17:16
Until the is notion dies Prog or progressive Rock will have no air time or exposure to the rest of society. It does not fit anywhere it seems in Radio formats undern Modern Rock, Classic Rock or any other kind of rock.
------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: eebz
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 23:29
| Prog isn't dead, it just smells funny |
Posted By: Yams
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 23:47
| Everyone knows prog died in December 1979 with The Wall. It's a proven scientific fact. |
Posted By: eebz
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 23:51
| ...i don't even know what to say to that one |
Posted By: Hangedman
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 00:39
To say prog has died is dumb. then rock died when the beatles came around and changed it by that argument. OH NO WEVE BEEN LIVING A LIE! lets all go back and only listen to 50s rock because thats what it really is 
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Posted By: Rob The Plant
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 03:47
Some music, such as ELP, Yes, Focus are more concerned with the music, where as some bands have very important lyrics, and understanding them adds greatly to the enjoyment of listening, such as Genesis, Pink Floyd, and van der Graaf Generator. Have you heard every single modern prog piece ever released? ------------- Collaborators will take your soul. |
Posted By: Zero the hero
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 07:11
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Prog rock die during the phase of Punk rock it's a know fact,which was possible a good thing as it was most definatly loosing it's way before hand.The bands never recovered from the revolution,fashion kills you see. Just take a few bands: Genesis:Gabriel left & collins made two stonkers then Yes:Going for the one then what ,Trevor horn jumps in for 'Drama' ELP:Drastic style change & sound...Good while it lasted but nothing compared with the early King Crimson:Last great album 'Starless' then Van der graff:Boring after 'Godbluff' very fashionable straight forward sound,creativeness of early work was all gone for the sake of Peter hammil syle work... 'Still life'/'World record'/'Pleasure dome-quiet zone'..
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 11:29
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The problem isn't that the prog genre is the most reviled genre in modern music (which it is) or that we make less monney than before (which is true) or even that we are musical snobs who deride any other form of popular music as inferior and beneath us, (which isn't necessarily true, but it certainly feels like it sometimes.... I mean, none of my friends can stand the Who, for crying out loud!! They complain about Townshend's lack of skill on guitar and that he does too many love songs... and this is THE band who invented the friggin' rock opera, perhaps the most used format in prog as we know it!! It's even worse when I play my precious Beatles and Neil Young albums!!) the problem is... we don't f**king progress!! Maybe I'm being nitpicky, but if I see one more story involving a faraway future where music is outlawed and our lone hero rebels against the evil [Priesthood of Syrinx, Majority for Musical Majority, wicked government, etc.] I'm going to abandon progressive rock altogether. Oh, and I wish we had more groupies. Instead, we have 'avid fans'. Why? Is it because we're above the notion of groupies? Oh, well... *used to play in metal bands... misses the groupies* |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 13:08
Echolyn is alright, but not truely amazing. Porcupine Tree is avarage.. what I've heard from Arena as boring.. I don't know Salem Hill though |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 13:09
PLEASE name a few! |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 13:11
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Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 13:30
Ok! I mentioned them alredy before in this thread but I'll write again to give them more promotion!  a) More or less old bands still making excellent new prog albums: MAGMA, HAPPY THE MAN, UNIVERS ZERO, ISILDURS BANE, METAMORFOSI etc. b) newer bands: AFTER CRYING, THINKING PLAGUE, AMAROK (Spanish), MINIMUM VITAL, FRENCH TV, DISCUS, JONO EL GRANDE, ALEXL, CLOGS, ECLIPSE, ECHOLYN, TERRA MYSTICA , OZRIC TENTACLES, HALLOWEEN (French), ANGLAGARD etc. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 23:47
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DUDE!! Joren's got the coolest Zappa picture I've ever seen!! Kudos bonansa to you! |
Posted By: aqualung28
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 00:16
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Prog is definitely not dead. The Mars Volta album Frances the Mute is helping keep it alive, along with Fantomas ,Opeth and Tool. Actually I think it is slowly coming back but in a more heavy metal form
------------- "O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love 'n you should have us all O' you should have us fall" "Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 01:06
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*does his best valley girl impersonation* Heavy metal is sooooo NOT progressive... |
Posted By: lunaticviolist
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 02:47
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All music is dead. I hope I'm wrong -- maybe it's just hibernating. There's a reason people listen to prog. There's nothing good now, so we listen to good stuff from the past. ------------- My recent purchases: 
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Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 04:37
Nope! See my previous post... |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 05:07
Thanks. I like it a lot too |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 11:46
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Trouser Press: "Prog isn't dead and will never die as long as artists push the boundaries - and the real artists will always do that." I'll go along with that
------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 12:27
| *wishes artists got paid more though... grumbles* |
Posted By: Alfredo G.
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 02:19
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it seems to me that hard rock is getting harder, and soft rock is
getting softer/crappier and eventually pop. The middle man is dying.
Think about it...i'm sure someone will be able to point out a few
modern bands that don't satisfy this, but with a few exceptions, i'm in
full belief of this generalization. That might be a bit off-topic, so let me clarify...A ton of these modern prog bands you guys have suggested are either metal or incredibly bizarre. In the 70's, the balance was right, the planets were aligned, and god shone a ray of light upon the musician. And God heard that it was good. Then people took their music to the extremes, and I believe they did too much so. Maybe the earth will get flooded and an ark will be constructed to save the greats like Roger Waters and Jon Anderson. Some women too, for breeding purposes...jk..... And then when the world is back in balance, God will bring back Bach, Mozart, and Pachabel. ------------- "There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't" |
Posted By: Gloryscene
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 04:46
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I don't beleive prog is dead how can it be if we are all still listening to it and posting pages of comments on the subject?! What is dead - surely dead means something which is entirely no more? (does that make gramatical sense?!! I think many new bands are progressive in nature and I have to say once more The Mars Volta just do their thing which does have progressive elements within it. So leave em be all you critics out there as they are far more entertaining than the likes of the main stream indie skinny tie pap like franz ferdinand, the rakes, baby"whatacomplete"shambles etc... Prog lives for those who still listen to it and for those bands who continue to innovate and push it's boundaries in new directions! ------------- "The Beautiful Ally Of Your Own Gravediggers" www.gloryscene.co.uk |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 04:51
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From The Mars Volta to The Flower Kings to Thinking Plague... It's hardly dead is it
------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 05:34
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Interestingly the only debate I can see that prog still lives is maybe The Mermen - Amazing California Health and Happiness Roadshow or Grovjobb - Vatternas fest, noting like what you guys are debating. I can see where maybe Prog Metal is alive and well, but not the stuff we new as prog in the 70's unless its something along the lines of the 2 afore mentioned bands! Ive heard Mr. Bungle is doing something out there but havent had a chance to verify that! |
Posted By: geezer
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 06:26
Exactly! I couldn't have said it any better. |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 07:26
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I wish it was the rock revival tripe that was dead!
------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 07:45
I completely understand why those 10-15 years older than me might think that prog is dead & buried; I wasn't fortunate enough to know much about the early seventies when it happened, but on the up side, terramystic & geezer are both absolutely right. In my musical lifetime, there has never been such as exiting time to get into prog in its various guises... just think, we've had new albums from SB, Arena, Shadow Gallery, DT, Fates, Tiles, Threshold, Evergrey, Enchant, Magellan, Glass Hammer, PoS & Ayreon within the last few months alone.. ok, they may not all be everyone's cup of tea, but they are a few of the acts I can think of, off the top of my head... what a result!!! ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Gloryscene
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 07:48
I wish those revival, rehash bands would go away in particular the ones the NME hype up and who often only last one album ------------- "The Beautiful Ally Of Your Own Gravediggers" www.gloryscene.co.uk |
Posted By: Cluster One
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 09:04
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As I said once before... "PROG IS DEAD! LONG LIVE PROG!"  ------------- Marmalade...I like marmalade. |
Posted By: MikeSweedish
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 09:42
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I do not believe that prog is dead, there are countless numbers of new bands putting twists of classic prog and creating their own fusions and sub-generes, but the legacies of the '70's still live on through generations getting passed down in families, my father introduced me to such classics as The Beatles, Frank Zappa, Led Zeppelin, and Rush which broadened my musical tastes and mixing in with the modern music my friends and I were getting into, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Smashing Pumpkins, Tool, Dream Theater, Ayreon and Porcupine Tree(not all prog), and metal-Opeth, Strapping Young Lad. As a musician I try to incorporate traits and styles from all of the music I grew on and still listen to, and I think that's an important quality of prog, besides odd time and intricate riffs. Classic prog bands blended what they had, early rock & roll, blues and jazz. I think that older prog listeners can slightly be biased against newer styles of prog because it's not what they enjoy, that's that, they have their opinions and that's fine, of course that doesn't make prog dead, it still lives on adapting to newer generations. As well as many of you, I too cringe at hearing the word "pop" but the context it's used in here isn't a bad thing making people thing the band isn't talented, but simply means that the particular band has become popular among it's crowd, and occasionally slipping into the mainstream, un-fortunately. Ayreon isn't verry well known outside of the prog community, but a popular band such as Mars Volta which was discovered and bulit up by us has seemed to break though and appeal to the mainstream crowd, this doesn't take away from our enjoyment of the music nor the talent of the band, but simply meaning....sh*ttier people at the shows. |
Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 11:15
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Amen Brother! ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Posted By: Sekkyoku
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 11:27
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Progressive Rock may not be as 'progressive' as it once was, but compares with more commercial forms of rock, or many other kinds of music, itīs still just as progressive as it was 35 years ago. Why play 4/4, or stay in the same key through the whole song, when, generally, all other forms of western music do that. As long as you stay different from the norm, without getting any closer to it, you remain progressive, in a sence. I could go on and on about this, but I donīt have the time right now Iīm afraid. By the way, I wonder, how can one not love surrealism? You have to be more open-minded. Take care now. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 12:00
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Meby all great music have allready been done there is no more good tunes too write no more great riffs left, they have all been yused up allready... ------------- 
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Posted By: Sekkyoku
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 12:01
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Ok, just one more thing, that I forgot; sure many bands within what has become the 'genre' of 'Progressive Rock' keep on making the same type of music as the bands did in the seventies, but, not all do, not by far. A lot of prog bands are not traditional, but progressive in the actual meaning of the word. Creative and truly artistic, indeed breaking the boundaries, and going beyond (if possible, many perhaps would ask). Another view, is, that it is hard to leave a winning concept such as the rules, or rather, the suggestions, of what is Progressive Rock. If you follow the suggestions, such as, for example, odd-meter, innovative melodies and harmonies, and key modulation, you get beautiful and interesting music, and who wouldnīt want to create that? Anyway, Iīm going to stop now, and leave you to it. All the best. |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 12:13
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the Progressive Rock pioneers from 1980 to the
present. I have not heard much to dispute this claim though I could have missed a few! I have not gone too far into the early mainstream 1990's beyond PROG, because almost all has evaporated unless you want to dwell on PROG METAL's growth which leaves my ballpark and is a subject for the youth of the world! 1980 Peter Gabriel - 3 1981 Dun - Eros Synergy - Audion 1982 Holger Czukay - On the Way to the Peak of Normal 1983 Yes - 90125 Tangerine Dream - Hyperborea Gandalf - Magic Theater 1984 Art of Noise - whose afraid of.... Bernard Xolotl - Last Wave 1985 Klaus Schonning - Lorian Arabesque 1987 Johannes Schmoelling - Wuivend Reit 1988 Airto Moreira - The Other Side of This 1989 Michael Shrieve - The Big Picture 1991 Peter Seiler - Open Borders 1992 Michael Brook - Cobalt Blue 1995 Steve Jolliffe - Zanzi 1999 Grovjobb - Vatternas fest 2000 Mermen - Amazing California Health & Happiness Roadshow ---------- truly progressive rock(70's definition) is a dead duck! |
Posted By: geezer
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 12:36
| For my taste the most interesting prog scenes since 1990 have been the Italian scene, the South American scene and the Japanese scene. Not forgetting bands like Anglagard of course. The year 1990 is particularly important year because prog started a new coming after the awful 80's. It's not same as it was in the 70's but it could be a lot worse. |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 12:49
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3 CD's follow the lead, Jolliffe - beyond late 70s early
80s kraut, Grobjobb - taking the cool 70's scandi sound to the next level and Mermen surf meets the ocean symphony...... 1995 Steve Jolliffe - Zanzi 1999 Grovjobb - Vatternas fest 2000 Mermen - Amazing California Health & Happiness Roadshow 
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Posted By: Autumn Dreams
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 13:35
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I don't think Prog is dead. It's just not as embraced as it was in the 70's. For some reason, the majority of people lost their souls to commercial jingles that have no creative spirit and are victimized by an overdone formula. This is sad, but us proggers need to stick together and listen to Frances the Mute with hope. ------------- Autumn Dreamer |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 13:44
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^whilst you seem to be saying that only prog music you like is valid,Dallas,you are of course,entitled to your opinion. For the rest of us,whether we dote on Prog-Metal or Neo-Prog,or whatever,we can take pleasure in the burgeoning scene,particularly in Britain and USA. |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 15:14
Would that be prog metal or neo prog or prog metal or neo prog? There is only one "popular" band that is accepted as prog that I absolutely adore, and that's The Mars Volta. Popularity of bands is almost irrelevant today, though, since I can nearly always find samples of bands I want to listen to (there are at the minute only 30 I can't, which is an absolutely tiny percentage of what I've looked for). When I delve into the realms of obscure prog, I find all sorts of gems that tickle my fancy, but there's not a lot at the top. I can only think of one name offhand, since once I've downloaded something I tend to forget the name now I have no money to buy the full albums (one day..!), and that's The Science Group - only really applicable if you're into RIO. |
Posted By: dalt99
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 15:58
| Prog is not dead it's just not mainstream like it was in the seventies. The reason it seems dead is because it's not heard on the airwaves but for those of us that know where to look, there is literally thousands of modern bands. Not all are good and yes, some are derivitive of the "classic" era but there are a LOT of new prog bands that have a very unique sound. Problem is, they don't get the exposure like mainstream music does. DIG DEEP and you will find some great stuff. |
Posted By: Borealis
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 17:48
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You need to get into the post rock if you are looking for something new. Sigur Ros, Explosions in the Sky, Godspeed you Black Emporer, Mogwai, just to name the most famed ones. The fact is that there is tons of amazing progressive bands out there, but we'll never hear of them even once in our whole life. They can't promote themself. I can hardly find music of most band I am looking for. I never listened to one song on Epilog of Anglagard. It took me weeks to find an Explosions in the sky album in a store, which still is one of the most known band today in post rock.
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Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 18:28
| Prog isn't dead- only weaker than it used to be. In reality, it's no suprise considering it's heyday years were really only 1971 to 1974. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 18:55
I think prog has never been more alive, and I think its exciting that there is such a wealth of music out there. There never has been so much choice IMO. Shame I cant afford to buy many Cds though ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 18:59
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This Progressive Rock is Dead things is simply an excercise in semantics..
Prog Rock is absolutely dead - the sort of music made in the 70s is long gone and unrepeatable. Those bands that attempt to do so, Spock's Beard et al are simply covers bands with their own tunes. There is nothing innovative, boundary-pushing, progressive about them. They are formulaic, rooted in an outmoded mehodology and simply slavishly recreating the ambience of the past and given today's recording techniques and equipment it almost always sounds faked. Anglagard are a good example - a triumph (though that's the wrong word) of style over content. Here's a band of superb musicians simply making repro versions of old masters. it's tremendously convincing but ultimately is somewhat stunted and cold. I think you need to redefine progressive rock - broaden the horizons out from a strict adherence to the use of mellotrons, fantasy lyrics, 14- minute suites, multiple time sigs and instrumental fireworks. All the classic prog bands were filtering a multitude of influences in the process of coming up with Selling England, CTTE, ITCOTCK, the same is true today. There has been so much music that modern 'progressive' music must filter all that stuff to 'progress', a bit of hip hop, a bit of drum and bass, a bit of trance, punk, ambient whatever. Once you get over the restrictive notion of progressive rock as a static form - like bebop, where it seems you must play the head, vault through individual solos before recapitulating the head - then you may just find there's a lot of 'progressive' rock out there. And I'm not talking about prog metal, which is comically limited and self- regarding, or neo-prog, which is umbilically tied to the old ways, but other forms of music, from electronica to so-called alt rock... and yes I'm talking about Radiohead, Fourtet, Massive Attack, GYBE, Tortoise, David Sylvian, The Mars Volta whoever. 'Progressive Rock' is out there - just don't expect to hear eight-minute Moog solos around a concept based on Arthurian Legend. Those days are gone. We can embrace the memory but let's move on and find the next wave... |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 19:02
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I am moving on...with Spocks Beard, Flower kings, Echolyn, Salem Hill........etc ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 19:57
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Well, it was coughing up blood last night....
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Dead?
Far from it, actually -- we review lots of passable to good newer discs here -- just read some reviews.
Posted By: gleam
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 20:16
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Progressive rock is not dead, he is alive and well and working at Wendy's.
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: May 11 2005 at 23:25
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well said Arcer!
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