not liking rock
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48933
Printed Date: June 09 2025 at 19:40
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: not liking rock
Posted By: laplace
Subject: not liking rock
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 13:44
|
Rock's a huge banner but we all know what's meant when it's referenced: classic rock, AOR, or however you want to pigeonhole it.
I can't stand the conservative bluesiness of this classic rock - I don't like the lyrics, I don't like my guitars to be overpowering and predictability (especially of twelve-bar models) evinces a certain amount of pain in me. Am I alone here? Or are there other prog fans out there who make an exception for the subgenre? honestly, ACDC, Led Zep, DP, Rush, Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, Eagles, ect ect ect all really annoy me. ;P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Replies:
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 13:49
|
sorry man.... Micky loves to rock... man can not live on prog alone. listen to this.. and if you are not playing air guitar, wanting to down a 12 pack and bang the neighbors daughter.. you aint' livin brother http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBXHZNSUtyg - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBXHZNSUtyg ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 13:54
|
I don't live on prog alone. I love noise and torch songs, the real extremes! =P
but I do like some stuff on the fringes of rock, when it interfaces with the avant-garde - the nuttier side of new-wave and post-punk, or select sludge and/or grind albums. but the base sound is so hideous to me that I still feel like a dabbler. I know the song you linked and it makes me sigh a little ;P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 14:01
What's that thing about banging the neighbours' daughter   ?Well, as Lappy knows, I'm very much into classic and hard rock, which is rather strange in the light of my being a woman. In fact, classic rock is very much a 'macho' genre (just like that AC/DC song - though I've never been into that band), and that can be a turn off to many women. I really can't explain why I love to rock so much, but I do, and I have always been like that. On the other hand, I'm willing to explore any genre of music, even though I am aware that not everything will be to my taste. |
micky wrote:Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 14:19
Not too big about any of these bands, either (Rush would be my favourite of the bunch), though I don't actively dislike them, just don't care. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 14:46
Yeah, he could hurt himself, at his age  Me. I'm borderline. Really, I have been brought up with too much exposure to modern 'rock', which I hated. Blues rock is a different matter, and I can live with any sort of sophisticated-ish rock music. Only really go berserk over atmospheric stuff, though. I think it's that plain rock largely just lacks atmosphere or imagery for me. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 16:50
|
From AC/DC's TNT:
"So lock up your daughter
Lock up your wife Lock up your back door And run for your life" Honey, I'm about to put on some AC/DC. Can you go warn the neighbors?
|
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 17:13
Exactly!! I LOVE to ROCK!! Deep Purple is massive dude!! Zep and Sabbath too, but behind, hehe. Trapeze, Ac/Dc, Free, Rainbow, Ram Jam, Audioslave, Pearl Jam, etc, etc, I have hell of fun with these bands. I love rock! Specially hard rock. Thankfully I do any instrument AIR, specially with hard rock, but prog is also included.. Also Heavy Prog can be considered. As Atomic Rooster, Rush, Uriah Heep, etc. DUDE! I and many more LOVE to Rock! 
|
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 17:39
|
Not a big rocker, I'm afraid. Blues based, predictable rock music doesn't really do it for me these days. Maybe after a few beers, I would enjoy a nostalgia trip if someone put 'Back in Black' on, but if they even thought about putting Bryan Adams on, I wont be held responsible for my actions..
If I'm subjected to The Eagles, I would have to call the ' Bad taste police' ... 
|
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 17:47
|
'blues-based' rock can be predictable but the best of it is not; Zep, Sab, Hendrix, Santana, Jeff Beck, AC/DC are at their best when taking the blues in an unexpected direction or by adding musicianship to trad. blues |
Posted By: KeleCableII
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 18:05
|
I grew up listening to classic rock and began to grow sick of it. My favorite bands used to include Lynyrd Skynyrd, Deep Purple, The Scorpions, The Eagles, and whatever else the radio played. Now I can barely stand them (I still listen to some Deep Purple occasionally though). The usually dumb lyrics about sex or drugs or having a good time, the obligatory and boring guitar solos, the lack of interesting rhythm sections (with the exception of a few, of course), the 10 repetitions of a boring chorus, the lack of change within a song... it's just so boring to me. And I think modern rock (starting with grunge) is one of the worst things to happen to music. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 18:09
prog is not exactly immune from dumb lyrics... obligatory guitar solos or the lack of interesting rhythm sections either ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 18:12
no doubt.. in fact, I'd much rather hear something decent on MTV than bad prog, there's nothing worse than bad prog |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 18:16
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 18:25
Torman. Maxt. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 18:28
Some of these bands got me on to my feet to where I am now, and I must admit, I seriously dislike all these bands now. I've always hated ACDC, but listening to these other bands when they come on the radio is practically a chore to get through. In short, I know exactly how you feel Lappy, but maybe to an even more extreme extent, I even find myself hating standard song stuctures, look at my lastfm chart, the only band on there that consistentently use the verse chorus verse structure are A perfect circle and Neutral milk Hotel. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 18:35
|
I love rock. Not as much as rockers do, and not as little as Laplace. Still; most rock music naturally irritates me. But then again I could say that about almost anything. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: KeleCableII
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 20:07
I don't know what prog you're listening to but most of the prog I listen to doesn't have that. That's why I listen to it. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 20:30
|
he speaks of the droves of prog rock that is simply *bad*, not good, disappointing in a big way.. not so much the stuff two prog fans disagree about as what you find when you really start hearing the second, third and fourth tier bands ..prog has a ton of crap I will refrain from mentioning cause those albums or groups have fans as well (presumably)
|
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 22:02
:-), Can we pick on an easier target, like Krautrock, or even more esoteric, Raga-Indo Rock ? Oh, and if a certain set of songs are overplayed, there must be someone out there that wants to hear them again & again. That's not a bad sign for a piece of music, is it?  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 22:06
|
ye gods
I can't understand why you get annoyed at people disliking things ;P I never said anything about the quality of the music, that I didn't have other options, or that anything in my original post was anything other than my opinion alone, yet I get the trademark pedantic DBG treatment everyone else: good posts ;P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 22:09
Exactly! As for classic rock/aor/blues based- rock, it's great stuff. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 22:15
|
Debrewguy, Lappy was just giving a subjective opinion, whats you're problem? I think ACDC is one of the worst bands on the face of the planet, and they've made some of the most disgusting noise that could ever be considered music, but what are you going to do about? Argue? Go ahead, but it's all subjective opinion, Lappy's going through a phase where he dosent like rock, or hell even guitar, and he has a right to see who else is on the same boat. -------------
|
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 22:51
|
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE TO f**kING ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCK! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUSiXIURfg - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUSiXIURfg |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 01:18
|
Prog rock, indie rock, and post-rock (which doesn't count as rock, really...) are the only rock things I listen to. I can't stand blues, rock 'n' roll, hard rock, soft rock, modern rock, or punk rock. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 02:04
 ------------- 
|
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 02:15
|
I think I've realized I'm one of the most normal (least adventurous?) of the older members here. Having been here 3 years, I don't really care to dig that deep, except maybe a Neo band here or their if they strike me as good. I'm fine with my Iron Maiden, Cranberries, Smashing Pumpkins, Incubus, U2, Steve Vai, Satriani, Van Halen, Deep Purple, Robert Plant, Zeppelin, and on and on. Sometimes, I get bored of complex music and just wanna rock out or chill out (as tonight with the Cranberries). I'm the least weird of the weird. I do dislike a lotta classic rock, though. Especially if it's a mediocre band playing in a blues scale. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 02:35
|
Given that Progressive Rock owes it's existence to Rock (however you want to define it), it seems a bit strange to rule it out.
Prog Rock isn't just about the up itself "experimental" or "avante-garde" aspects (and most of it just isn't either) - it has to rock too, or there's no point in it apart from self gratification.
AC/DC are and have always been one of my favourite bands - it doesn't matter about the notes they use or the chord progressions - that is not the point of rock (or blues), just as it's not the point of jazz, classical or any other form of music.
The entire point is what it communicates to you, and ruling out an entire "genre" just because of the way it's constructed smacks highly of prejudice and lack of taste.
As someone said earlier, there's practically nothing worse than bad prog - and there's nothing better than good ROCK.
 ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Prof.
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 03:50
|
Born and raised on classic rock. Just recently I was exposed to prog.
Clapton(and all his forms) would be the most important to me, but Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple, Rush, Rainbow, etc.
I dont like all rock, but I came for the Rock and I stayed for the Prog.
|
Posted By: KeleCableII
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 04:45
That's what 80s Genesis and Peter Gabriel are for me. :) |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 05:08
|
Some of you seem to try as hard as you can to misunderstand the topicstarter. I have no problem with understanding someone with main progpreferances like Picchio Dal Pozzo, Wha-ha-ha, Art Zoyd, Art Bears, Magma etc. stating that classic, bluesy rock annoys him. Although these bands are related to rock, most of the time they don't "rock". Btw: Debrewguy; You seem to have stopped reading others posts properly before you reply. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 05:35
|
I agree a lot with much of what Cert had to say on the matter, although I do have my difference. I did sorta like about 3 or 4 AC/DC songs, a few years ago maybe, but simply from them being overplayed I cannot stand to listen to them anymore. From the "classic" era, I guess all I'm really listening to from then is Black Sabbath and occasional The Hendrix Experience. Used to love Led Zep, but just grew weary of listening to them really. I still love my Iron Maiden and of course as a guitarist, Satriani and Vai as Stonebeard suggested (although the virtuosity they display is far from making them another "fashion accessory" type band). I believe the whole "fashion accessory" AOR bands like Wolf Mother, Velvet Revolver, The Strokes etc, that kinda of music was great when it fresh and innovative in the 60s/70s, and there is no need to repeat it, music should evolve and the reason why I listen to more prog lately is because for the most part I see it as constantly evolving and moving forward. -------------
|
Posted By: Yukorin
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 08:30
|
(edit. didn't make sense)
I'll listen to everything and anything (have everything Betty Boo ever released. That and serious multiple copies of Klaus Wunderlich on vinyl). I got into prog through this root: post-punk, glue-sniffing, no-wave, Throbbing Gristle and Human League and Whitehouse and Cabaret Voltaire et al. Heard tons and tons of the sh!t when I was growing up thanks to the shedloads of local Afghan patchouli dirty hippies (a mates older brother beat the sh!t out of me for not liking Thick As A Brick)
But I really started to take a strong interest when I heard that Krautrock and Jazz were a part of prog. Regrets? I've had a few
------------- 
|
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 10:16
|
Seems everyone is slightly distracted now, so I'll take the opportunity and own up to really liking "Sweet Home Alabama". Not least because I don't get to hear it very often. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 11:35
|
Good rock ROCKS! Bad rock doesn't. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 11:48
|
Like some other people here I started with Rock. Growing up my Dad always listened to a lot of "classic rock" and so did I. Admittedly I got into metal and such, but it's that classic rock that has stuck with me for all this time. Like a lot of the prog we listen to I think that rock has some really great staying power to it. People who really like rock REALLY like their rock. Sure, there's some stuff that is plain cheese and there's some stuff that is far too fluffy, but I still think that in general the golden age of rock had a lot to offer. There's a lot of reasons not to like rock, but for me the guitar is something I just love to listen to. It took a long time for me to appreciate some of the prog that doesn't use it, likely explaining my love for our genre of "heavy prog"... But hey, it's all a matter of opinion, right? And ah yes... AC/DC... being that my brother learned to play guitar to them I've heard all their albums a million times. The Razors Edge is likely the only one I can still listen to... But the rest - Get them away! I don't want to hear it anymore!!! But Prof. said it best: I came for the rock, I stayed for the prog. |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 12:07
I love rock music. So, you guessed it: I'm a predictable, boring, FM-friendly guy
------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 12:31
Um... touchy. ;P I've listened to enough base rock music to know that I don't like it, and to work out the reasons why I don't. The entire point of music might be what message you get from it for you but that's not necessarily why I'm listening, is it? Everyone who mistook a preference for an attack... well, I don't like them. =P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 12:51
|
I tend not to like rock and roll, typical blues based classic rock, AOR, arena rock, and guitar rock. I tend not to like very predictable music with classic rock lineups, slick melodic rock, or "hard rock". I like quirky music. I grew up as someone into classical music first, and then delved into jazz. The "rock" I tend to like best is what is sometimes described as avant-garde chamber rock, and it doesn't have to rock (really "chamber and experimental music" generally describes my tastes better). And I like much folk-rock and jazz-rock (and of course, prog rock). There are exceptions, and my tastes are quite eclectic. I used to listen to classic rock radio a fair amount, when I hadn't a CD or working tape player in my car, but most of it gets on my nerves. There's not enough quirkiness, contrast, twists and turns, genre bending, and varied instrumentation (especially involving acoustic instruments such as the cello, shakuhachi, santoor, whatever) in the music (though I like electronic music muchly too). The steady beat, pedestrian lyrics, and non-explorative nature of the music tends not to appeal. I don't like most modern rock, either. I don't consider myself a fan of rock music, but it depends on how the bands utilise/ approach rock in the music, but my natural inclination is very far from rock, electric instrumentation and heavy drumming, even though I listen to so much rock-based music (piano beats Hammond, cello beats guitar, xylophone beats drums generally for me). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 13:17
| ^ most of that is fair except I would take issue with the 'pedestrian lyrics' of rock.. I've found as I mature that in fact the best rock'nroll has some of the more adult, truly sophisticated lyrics in music - Beatles, Paul Simon, CS&N, Bowie - these are the true wordsmiths in popular music, whereas Prog and Avant Garde tends to be more spaced-out and distracted ..just an observation |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 13:21
Yeah, I know. I gotta watch my mood swings. . Unfortunately, modern pharmacology is not yet perfect when it comes to managing Bi-Polar II. That And hope that the Penguins start playing better.My apologies on going overboard. It is a touchy subject with me when I perceive (and it is sometimes just my perception, not the writer's intention) that a music genre is being put down as if it were some how objectively inferior. Or worse, that the dismissal is based on the genre's stereotypes. P.S. I have to look up the word Pedantic. Then hopefully amend my ways  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 13:33
Hear, hear  ! Not all rock lyrics are about sex, booze and drugs, and even classic hard rock and heavy metal bands often have lyrics that are anything but pedestrian - check Metallica's Master of Puppets, for instance, or most of Blue Oyster Cult's albums.Anyway, I'm afraid Lappy's intent with this thread has been grossly misunderstood. He didn't want to embark on a rock-bashing crusade, but rather offer an interesting topic of discussion. Hopefully my own response (written by a true-blue rocker as I am) didn't sound confrontational. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 13:46
\True, I've gone back and see clearly that he meant it as opinion and not objective fact. I should have noticed the exclusive use of "I" & "me". Oh, and now I know what pedantic means. Now I'm checking out the word "ostentatious". So far, it seems I like books, precision, and subtle reasoning. I would have thought it had something to do with pedals or pendants. Ah bein, ca me laisse quand meme le perdant dans cette discussion. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 14:02
|
It's weird...If someone had started a thread called "not liking rap" or "not liking punk", the "close minded" arguments would have been there from the beginning... But it's so safe to say "i don't like rock"... A negative thread. Weren't we supposed not to promote them? ------------- 
|
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 14:06
|
To my eye, the only reason that laplace's post hasn't been deemed the post of a troll is because he is a well-known poster with what are in my opinion strange musical tastes. Only a troll would go in to a Prog Rock forum and say I don't like rock and roll. Taken without the context of his other similar posts, I would think that this thread is very negative and very insulting to most of the members of this forum. Taken within the context of his other similar posts, I kind of have to wonder why he spends so much time in a Prog Rock forum where the topics of discussion generally conflict with his personal tastes. The above being said his recent posts do seem to indicate that his mission is more to try and understand what the rest of us enjoy in something that he doesn't enjoy, so as that he might somehow understand it better. This is based on his stating that he is trying to at least listen to all of the newer releases before he bashes them, rather than just bashing them for the sake of bashing them.
------------- 
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 14:13
I wasn't clear, and here's a post to further muddy the waters. There are a great many exceptions. I meant it as pedestrian lyrics in much classic rock and roll (of the type that doesn't appeal to me), not all, of course. I tend not to think in absolutes even if I don't specifically mention that it's not an absolute. Commonly I find R&R lyrics dull (lacking in eccentricity, humour or insight), and there are a great many exceptions, which is fine as long as I don't notice the lyrics. I meant to reference particular kinds of rock music that doesn't appeal to me, not all classic rock (and even then there are exceptions). The majority of it doesn't appeal, though lyrics tend to be of secondary importance to me. I don't tend to listen to Prog and Avant Garde music for the lyrics, most of what I listen to isn't even in languages I'm adept in, or is largely instrumental (though in artists/ bands such as Wyatt and Art Bears, the lyrics add another dimension). I like CS&N, as well as CSN&Y, Bowie, Paul Simon and much of The Beatles considerably. Though popular, those are not "typical" rock and roll artists for me. I'm a fan of Simon and Garfunkel, incidentally (though i think of that as folk-rock, which is a type of music that I enjoy considerably). I think of Bowie more as an art rock/ pop artist (I tend to like art rock), though obviously he did rock and roll, and he did it well for my tastes. I don't like much of the lyrics from early Beatles ("she love you, yeah, yeah, yeah..."). For me, though classic rock station fare, they are rather progressive artists. I also like Supertramp's lyrics considerably, and many pop artists. The lyrics needn't be sophisticated for me to enjoy them, as I'm not a very sophisticated individual. I'd rather listen to "I am the egg man, koo koo ka choo" than, say, cliche lyrics such as, "Going out in a blaze of glory." I like zany lyrics as well as thoughtful, insightful ones. I just had to reference Bon Jovi merely cause there's no music I can think of right now that I dislike more. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 14:14
|
Hey wait, why is the tide turning now that I've admitted my going too far, and apologised ? Oh, and the word ostentatious has nothing to do with being from Austin Texas. It means excessive something or other and pretentioning, which I thought was spelt pretending. If there is time, I may indulge in some vain attempts at showing how glorious my writerings can be when I laplicate myself Oh, to one and all - just remember (not the Alamo) that you can't kill rock n roll. Which isn't that big a deal, 'cause we couldn't kill disco, either, eh. P.S. Laplace, you may want to read the quote at the bottom of my posts. It should give you an inkling of the fact that I am somewhat aware of my occasional failing(s). That's probably due to all the knowledge I've picked up over the years from books like Larousse dictionary's bio section, the Ritch hick's guide to the Galaxy, Gibbsons The decline and calls of the Rummy Umpire, a history of Napoleon's battles ,( Nota Bono Parte I & II), Maus, Robert Fulghum's excellent philosophical treatises, the rise of the Left waffle, and also the Rather Humongeous Book of Uppity Words (abridged version), the Tao of Pooh, and the Te of Piglet (highly recommended), the Art of War (and its' uses in hockey, a special edition limited to the Canadian market), Bon Scott and his coming Beatification, "Why I'm Right" by Meo Dso Rong, and of course my favourite "Franny & Zooey", although I wish I could remember what the ultimate moral or point of the book is. It has been 28 & a half years since that English Lit class back at U de M. I think somehow, it's because I identify with Zooey. And at times with Franny. Other times I identify with myself or my driver's ID. P.S.S. the next 4 pages were not written as my fingers cramped while my mind wound up in high gear. P.S.S.S. Your Mother ! Nota Bene - this and all other writings, including any semblance of "a" style are not registered trademarks, nor registered under any copyright (or wrong) laws anywhere where common sense abounds (i.e. Canada) ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 14:28
|
I guess none here is trying to kill anything (I wouldn't mind one or two genres dissapearing though..) What amazes me is such a negative thread about rock in a prog-ROCK website... but some posters run to the defense of rap or punk and deem everybody close-minded if one dares to say anything negative about those genres.... Again, we can't say anything about personal tastes... I'm just complaining about the double-standard here... that's all. -------------
|
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 14:53
|
Rushfan - Laplace spends so much time on this Progressive Rock forum because his "strange musical tastes" are represented in the archives as Progressive Rock, plain and simple. Now obviously you can wonder if his "strange musical tastes" are really rock or not, but they are listed here anyway. And the bands he criticised (AC/DC, Led Zep, The Eagles, Deep Purple, Thin Lizzy, Rush - ah, now I get it etc.) are, except for Rush, NOT Progressive Rock, the ones that are in the archives are in the (unnecessary) Prog Related category. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 15:19
|
I do wonder if his "strange musical tastes" are really rock or not and why some of this is listed on a Progressive Rock site. That said, I don't begrudge it. I am quite open to accepting what others find worthy of inclusion on this site. Nothing in the ProgArchives' guidelines says that I have to like everything that is included here, and obviously this applies to Laplace and everyone else who frequents this site. Generally speaking, I find many of Laplace's posts to be intelligent and well-written. And most of the time, I find him to be a plus to our little community here, but at times I also find some of his posts annoying, kind of like he finds those bands that he listed.
By the way, if my impression of Laplace is correct, I think that he would find the "strange musical tastes" to be a proper description, as well as a compliment.
-------------
|
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 15:27
|
AC/DC, Rush, Alice Cooper....they've all been some of my favorite bands for the longest time. I generally like classic rock, not all of it...but a good majority of it. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 15:30
|
"Strange musical tastes" isn't really a proper description, because mine are altogether stranger *Visitor13 wonders what Laplace thinks of the Queens of the Stone Age |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 16:13
|
QOTSA = not for me. Same with Kyuss et al; do not want. o:) but I do like the Melvins when they're messing about.
(I don't mind people thinking my tastes are strange, but outside of prog I do tend to listen to the "obvious" bands from each genre - those genres just aren't much to do with rock'n'roll.) ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 16:32
|
As to the guitar, might I quote Neil Peart:
What can this strange device be?
When I touch it, it gives forth a sound Its got wires that vibrate and give music What can this thing be that I found? See how it sings like a sad heart And joyously screams out its pain Sounds that build high like a mountain Or notes that fall gently like rain I cant wait to share this new wonder The people will all see its light Let them all make their own music The priests praise my name on this night -------------
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 16:39
I came here for the progressive rock (nostalgia to a large extent), but stayed for the progressive music.
I seem to remember that you were one to promote free speech of the old I may not agree with you, but I'll defend you're right to say it. Not negating your thoughts here, nor is this really a response to your post, just following my own train of thought from your post. Censuring such "negative" threads is a kind of censorship that I could not easily tolerate. For me, this is a constructive and interesting thread, though. We have been encouraged not to promote negative threads. Not sure if that's a rule or a request. While me must follow forum rules; we're not little kids. It is our responsibility, since we're guests here and minor representatives of the site, to try to do what we're told, or requested to do. And if one is too much of a free spirit; go, but that's by-the-by. I don't have much sympathy for those who come down on people for not liking certain kinds of music, be it rap, country, metal or chamber music. I do applaud those knowledgeable people who respond positively by taking that person's tastes into account and suggesting music from those genres that may appeal. I probably have more eclectic tastes than most, but I've found music that appeals in most genres I've known and explored. What commonly happens, I find, is that people "diss" a style of music without having explored it much, and without anything intelligent to say about what they don't like about it (often with too general assumptions that show a lack of knowledge). Can one say all rap is bad if one hasn't delved into the great variety of rap that is out there? I enjoy lots of punk music, but wouldn't expect many others to appreciate it. I don't have such a problem with such negative threads as I do negative responses about people who make or write in negative threads, or criticising people for posting about their tastes and opinions of music, literature etc. I think it's important to remember to be tolerant of other's tastes. There's nothing wrong with saying one doesn't like certain music, in my opinion (in fact I like to know what people like as much as dislike -- it interests me), where it crosses the line is when it becomes a personal attack on other's tastes. It also crosses the line when someone attacks someone for expressing an opinion on music. I've always been surprised when people take offence because someone doesn't like the same music they do and dares to express it. For instance, I can say in terms of my taste that the music of Spock's Beard is horrible, but it would be wrong to say that people are idiots for liking music that is horrible for me. I just hope that negativity can be balanced with positivism. I'd rather people say what they like and don't like than just what they like or just what they don't like. Off on a tangent, but if I start a thread on a band that I like, I appreciate it when someone takes the time to sample the music and give their impressions good or bad (hopefully beyond merely saying "It sucks" -- cause that's boring. I don't find it offensive, but it's not constructive. That has to do with me also appreciating those who try to explore music that is outside of their normal tastes (good way to expand one's tastes). But I'm also just plain interested in how people think and express themselves. I like threads such as this one, as long as people try to express their personalities and are thoughtful in how they express themselves/ respond. We can show respect for each-other's tastes and points of view without being in agreement. As I've often said, one of the worst kinds of worst negativity, for me, is negativity directed towards an individual because of perceived negativity on what are really matters of taste. I don't find it offensive when someone is dismissive of music I like, but when one is easily dismissive of, or insulting/ sarcastic to, a person for not liking certain music, for liking certain music, or expressing an opinion, that can be problematic for me. Vive la difference. It's only ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 21:05
To each his/her own. 
I like rock, I like the blues, I like lots of stuff. I like variety -- my moods vary.
With no disrespect intended, I don't really care what others like or don't like -- least of all total strangers who I cannot even see, or whose real names, and ages, etc, are largely unknown to me -- because their tastes and opinions on art don't affect me one bit.
Now, I care about how strangers vote, or treat our planet, because that can affect me in a very real way, obviously, but some guy out there, who I'll likely never even be in the same town as (let alone the same room with) doesn't like the same album I do? Why should I take offense, or even care?
 Any rational, aware earthling knows that people & tastes vary widely -- that's a simple, unavoidable fact of life. Some like to argue and debate about such things. More power to 'em -- I sincerely wish them every joy of it.
 But I have little desire to either defend my own particular tastes (except, perhaps, to those who are close to me), try to "convert" others, or adopt your tastes. To me, it's much like those computer-generated lists of songs and "artists recently played" that so many here display as "signatures" -- I have ZERO interest in such things. They say NOTHING to me. They're not even as interesting as advertising, because they totally lack commentary, or even "colour" and emotion. It's the textual equivalent of he buzzing of flourescent lights -- mere background; white noise.
But carry on, by all means. I'm going to go watch a movie with my wife. After, we'll likely talk about it a bit. We love each other, and know each other very well, and have (broadly) similar tastes -- though she'll never "make' me like her Madonna or Abba, nor will I ever "make" her like VDGG. (Nor will we try to make the other like that stuff -- we both know it's pointless, and ultimately, totally unimportant.)
Our bedtime books will be very different too -- if one of us waxes enthusiastic about "our" book, the other will listen politely (or pretend to
 ), but we're still very unlikely to actually read the other's preferred book.Bottom line: tastes in art vary. No big deal -- there's plenty out there for each of us. We don't have to agree.
I honestly don't care what bands you like, or don't -- nor do I care what you had for supper tonight.
I'd rather share some laughs here, or maybe, just maybe compare notes & impressions on (known) music with those of a like mind. These days, I tend not to read -- let alone post in -- threads about bands or genres I don't care for, or don't know. I see no point in it. Born in 1960, I'm not looking for new music here -- I easily find enough on my own, and my "old" bands keep me busy as well. (I haven't read -- or written --a review here in quite some time.) Maybe after 4+ years, thousands of posts, and over 100, mostly lengthy reviews, I've just said 99.9% of what I care to say about music and so-called "progressive" rock here, among faceless, mostly nameless strangers, who mostly don't respond at all, and who, more likely than not, disagree with me anyway. Ho hum.
Can we talk about motorcycles, books, or mutual friends and acquaintances now?
And no, I don't want to argue about religion or politics with you either, stranger!
 ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 21:10
|
what's sad is that, on a discussion forum, people are about to come in and quote you and give you any amount of clappies for stating the ultimate in neutral and undiscussable positions, like the solipsism of taste. o:)
I didn't just make the thread to say "look I listen to industrial lolz" but because I knew there were others out there who feel the same way. in particular I always appreciate Logan, Rocktopus and Yukorin's posts and I knew they'd appear. and honestly, artists and bands can be our mutual friends ;P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 21:34
|
^ Hopefully Lappy, you can "appreciate" a simply honest post like mine too.
Hey, I read your entire thread. It caught my interest. (Not much seems to around here, these days.) No one's posts or opinions on this have offended me in the least!
 I guess I'm just burned out with discussing/debating/arguing something as subjective as music with strangers. Sigh. We can't even make eye contact, or buy each other a beer. It just doesn't 'float my boat,' or fulfill my basic need for real human contact and friendship anymore.
If i've learned anything in my 4+ years here, it's that an internet forum of strangers is not "the real thing," that text is a poor substitute for voice, and that what we deem "prog" does not even unify us. (Because it is NOT a unified, single thing -- in a very fundamental sense, it does not even exist, beyond the individual's mind -- it's mostly a subjective judgement.)
I guess I'm in a sort of philosophical, blase mood. Sorry.
Now I'm going upstairs to be with my warm, very real family whom I love -- and the music and book collection that I like. That's what really matters to me.
 I hope you can see my point -- if indeed I have one....
 But I wish you well, and hope you have a nice evening, fellow lonely humans, so widely spread out there, & seeking some sort of "community" via a machine-- I mean that! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 21:54
|
don't take it too hard laplacido, part of the price for Forum Stimulation? ..please continue wearing your different tastes proudly, I would |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 22:08
|
I think it would better to mention the stereotype of classic rock is what you dont like, because most of the bands you mentioned always branched out (eventually) maybe its the hits you dont like.I mean late Zeppelin is now way near the other bands mentioned.But if so respect for a being a prog fan and not a classic rocker i found prog at the start went hand in hand. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 03:02
|
Ahem... Peter: why on earth do you share all this intimate stuff with all us complete strangers in a thread about not liking rock? So discussing music has become pointless and unimportant to you (although I know you take offence on opinions of strangers all the time) and you're not interested in discovering anything new. I'm here for the music, and discovering more of it through some folks I can only find here. Unlike you, this matters to me, and it doesn't mean I don't have a life. I even got a bird who like me, love both VdGG and ABBA (and that's not totally unimportant to me either). I've learned one thing too; Text is a great substitute for voice. Not for love and all that "warm" familystuff you write about, but for sharing interests and opinions with kindred spirits or whatever, who doesn't live in your neighbourhood. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 04:14
Not to pick at you or anything, but I just find it interesting when people really like a certain genre(s) but dislike the one or more that fathered it/them. Also post-rock is very much a part of the rock umbrella.
If you enjoy the Melvins messing about you should check out their bassist's side project The Thrones. It might appeal to your tastes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMD5ugZSqU0&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMD5ugZSqU0&feature=related |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 04:44
It's not really surprising. If you're entirely satisfied with a genre, you don't create another one. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 06:40
very nice post ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 09:02
Fair enough, Rocktopus. I have no quarrel with you, Laplace, or anyone here, on this or any other matter.
My post was not to attack anyone or any opinion, just to say that I, myself, don't find arguing such things here to be fulfilling. Again, i don't care (or, more politely, I'm not CONCERNED, surprised or bothered) that Laplace does not like something in music that I like. People vary greatly.
As for me "taking offense of strangers all the time" can you prove that?
 My post was not meant to be confrontational, or even judgmental. I took care to say "with no disrespect intended," etc, and I sincerely meant it. I just wanted to show how such topics don't really interest me the way they once did -- to show MY particular evolution/devolution here as a PA forum member. I was just telling it like it is, to try to explain (to any who might be interested, but just as importantly, to myself) why my posting rate had dropped so greatly in the last year or so.
I was new here once, too, and in that time, re finding new prog, and discussing prog, I used and enjoyed the forum for the same reasons you express above. But time moves on -- that's all. No big deal. When I highlighted the word "MY" so many times, it was (and is) to indicate that this is just one man's, that is, MY, experience. I found my new music here -- I made my points, again and again. I even made a real, face-to-face friend -- thanks for all of that, PA!
 For me, Laplace is free not to like classic rock, unchallenged -- just as, i hope, I'm free to be different.
Peace -- if you look again at the tone of my post, and the one which followed, i think you'll see I was not out for a fight. As i said, no posts in this thread have bugged me.
(Not even yours -- at least, not as much as you might think or fear.
)And okay, as someone who loves the written word, and who works with it, I know the great value of text. My point was just that for me, arguing or debating subjective matters of taste in writing with people I don't know, and cannot even see, or usually even put a real name to, is a poor substitute for face-to-face conversation on such matters between friends.
Sorry. Maybe I shouldn't have posted my thoughts at all -- as I said, many people very often disagree with me, take offense where none is meant, misunderstand my intent and mood, and even make it personal, attacking my character (as if they really knew me).
This, to me, only highlights my basic issue with this format, and how partaking in such exchanges is increasingly pointless, even frustrating for me.
Over time, many here drift away, and post less and less, and I believe that for many of them, the reasons are similar to my own. I find it almost like a lot of the religious or political arguments we see here. People get offended, and no one ever seems to change his or her mind.
Oh well -- I'll get over it (as I seem to be doing).
 ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 09:06
|
Re the 'why on earth" do I see fit to share this with strangers, Rocktopus, I guess I'm complicated, inconsistant, merely human, and thus prone to errors in judgement.
But I was not arguing, confronting, or making anything personal -- was I? ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 09:34
|
I'm trying to come up with a consistent answer to this question in my mind, but I just can't.
It depends on what you mean by "most" rock, I guess... I like to think that I appreciate many genres of rock and I dabble in most of the popular (or unpopular) styles that have existed since the '60s, so if the question as stated is asking if I like most genres of rock, including straight up album rock, punk, new wave, hXc, power metal or whatever, then yes I can appreciate most styles of rock and they do not annoy me.
However, experience has shown me that most of the rock that actually exists is bad. For every great band in a particular genre, there are a thousand mediocre immitators and half-assed, watered-down sounds that are in fact irritating. I won't find a particular band irritating because they're emo or punk or soft-rock, but I will turn it off if they bring nothing interesting to the table. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 11:36
very very true.. and you can put prog in that as well...for me.. I got into prog to hear 'progressive' music.. progressive rock... not music that falls into convention, a stale half assed music, or simply immitating what others have done. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 11:54
amirite? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 11:58
|
hahaha.. DT is just personal dislike and see them as individually great musicians with no clue how to make good music together... but I wouldn't stoop down to not call them prog.. or even progressive.. hell they sort of are the foundation of the whole PM movement. My scorn is directed towards a different branch of prog re: my comments... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 14:31
|
I listen to just about every genre of rock music. I love a lot of classic rock, hard rock, alternative rock, pop rock. And a good deal of punk rock (mostly 70s punk, old hardcore, post punk) and some metal (Sabbath, Maiden, thrash/speed metal).
Genres I'm not too fond of would be death and black metal, modern hardcore and of course theres the obvious choices, emo, pop punk, nu metal, post grunge, haha.
And the majority of todays indie scene. There are exceptions, as there are exceptions for everything. But a lot of these bands are being hyped to death IMO. Bands like Okkervil River, Deerhoof, The National, Clap Your Hands and Say Yeah, Patrick Wolf, etc. Personally that kinda music grates me to no end. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 15:41
|
Yes i love rock, great as prog is you cant survive only lisening to prog, sometimes the most simpel riff is all you need to make the best muzik:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvyDWGF290M&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvyDWGF290M&feature=related
And as a bonus a lil song from all your favorite "Nonemusicians"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xflo4_UCtA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xflo4_UCtA
If thos clips dont make you shake your head and stamp your feet, you gota be dead.
Sure i allso got my periods when i only been lisening to prog but sooner or later we all get back to the short sweet and simpel stuff. ------------- 
|
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 18:20
|
The first two albums in your sig alone tell me that your taste is pretty diverse. Talk about an odd pairing. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 20:04
|
based on my response to the above clip, I'm dead. o:) ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Yukorin
Date Posted: May 29 2008 at 04:17
|
I don't think any amount of The Kinks videos are gonna change the situation.
Try some blues from 1984: Psychick TV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THXrukoR10s&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THXrukoR10s&feature=related -------------
|
Posted By: Yukorin
Date Posted: May 29 2008 at 04:30
|
Pretty sure you won't like this one laplace. Very rock and they also gave it the flowery promotional video touch, corporate whores that they were.
Same band:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElohIb2fh2E - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElohIb2fh2E -------------
|
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 01 2008 at 21:23
You mean you limit your listening to what existed when you first started listening to music ? There are certain genres that I prefer, but none exists that delivers just musical acts that enthrall me. I love Green Day, so if Pop Punk is their genre, why can't I get into Simple Plan, Sum 41 (O.K. there were 3-4 songs when they first came out about their hidden metal fetish), or even the biggest of Green Day's commercial offspring - Blink 182. I love Johnny Cash, but much of the rest of traditional country that I like relates to songs, as no other artist in this type of music has gripped me. I love Dun, and I have all of Univers Zero's albums. But the entire Zeuhl section of my collection is Dun. And apart from Zappa and a few others, RIO/Avant-Garde is not a big part either. Yet, I'm still open to listening to other bands in both genres. I love Marillion & IQ, yet I'm not a big Neo prog fan. Nor, do I really see Gabriel's influence as being overwhelming, or the Trick of the Tail era Genesis as a blueprint. I love a lot of metal music, but I don't love every metal group. I love a lot of roots or retro rock, but again, that doesn't extend to the whole scene. I love prog, but have no Krautrock, Prog electronic, or raga/Indo rock. FOR THOSE WHO WANT THE BRIEF VERSION : I love music. I find it where it is. Not under what "type" or "section" others may file it. Genres are general descriptors. Nothing more. They can serve as a guide, but not a guarantee. BACK TO THE LONG VERSION : Basing one's opinion or arguement of a very wide genre on the worst in its' grouping is easy. So easy as to open oneself to inane petty pedantic ramblings attacking of picky puffed up people with nothing better to do than debate in detail the overgeneralized and unfocused "taste". Especially when you use a definition, then limiting the scope of said definition to fit your liking. If you don't like AC/DC, fine. If you don't like the million and one imitators out there, fine. But stating that "classic rock" is something you don't like, is really inaccurate. Here's why - "classic rock" includes any and all music from the mid 60s to now that has managed to keep music fans' ears happy. That includes the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Yes, Jethro Tull, Joni Mitchell, Hendrix, Pearl Jam, Dylan, Status Quo (if you're in the UK), Queen, 10cc, Elton John, Zep, Sabbath, Purple, the Clash, Nirvana and many others. Do you notice that about half of those listed (at my deliberate choosing) appear in one of the genres listed at PA. Can you tell me what the shared link is between Ex-Sir John, Kurt, Jim & Jimi (all of the hallowed T-shirt icon/idol brigade {lennon, cobain,morrison,hendrix for y'all) ? Oh yeah, their music "genre" usually includes the term "rock". How about Sir Elton ? I mean he & Freddie share a certain taste or leaning, but how would you come up with a definition that really includes both ? Classic Rock is it. It is, as most general and overly inclusive groupings, easy to pick a few things you dislike. It is likely just as easy to find some that you may like. Heck, the magazine Classic Rock has printed articles on Gentle Giant and King Crimson. Don't they know their target audience might be confused why such non 12 bar playing bands merit a mention ??? We don't all seem to know that it means the very limited (and not completely related) cross section of acts (the Eagles & Maiden, now they share a common sound, eh) that you don't like.Which is your right. But base your "opinion", or at least present it with something more than stereotypes, not with platitudes (no, I didn't need to Peruse my Thesaurus or Dictionary to find that word, I've used it before) that really shed no light as to what you actually don't like about these disparate groups, and accept that a general and sweeping dismissal of beloved groups (which their fans also have a right to do) may attract flak (again, there was no need for me to use book learning and all that smart ass writing stuff to compose) because these music lovers may be as enthusiastic and attached to their musical heroes music as you are to your supposedly strange taste. Which, by the way, I really haven't seen spelled out in detail. Also, by the way, I have been told that I have strange tastes. But mostly because of the variety and wide range of music that I have in my collection, have heard, heard of or know about. And the only time I bother to get my dander up is when someone is displaying a petty attitude ( it's all just noise to me, unlike the noise that I like). I then feel "invited" to question their taste just as they might have mine. Why not ? You asked " Am I alone here? Or are there other prog fans out there who make an exception for the subgenre? honestly, ACDC, Led Zep, DP, Rush, Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, Eagles, ect ect ect all really annoy me. ;P" Damn, I wet myself. Got to keep to schedule on those bathroom breaks, even if it breaks the flow of thought. Better that flow, eh. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |