I first discovered Floyd (dsotm), Yes(Awaken) and Genesis (Nursery Crymes) at the tender age of 12, via a friend's father's LP collection. It was 1980 and little did I know, the dawn of the most artistically devoid decade since the dark ages. Throughout my teenage years I clung desperately to the heavenly sounds and expanded my knowledge of music, while all about me raved about the latest Spandau Ballet/Duran drivel.

 I was not entirely on my own in this, and like most fans of elite (unfashionable) music I set about meeting people of a like mind. I soon discovered a rather disturbing side to prog and it is this aspect I would like to discuss:  CHICKS DON'T DIG IT!!

Everytime I'd whip out my Tales from Topographic it would be "Haven't you got the new Wham/Kajagoogoo etc." Any girlfriend worth keeping would require "grooming" in the ways of prog. I lost my virginity to Close to the edge, but she said it was putting her off! I Get Up, I Get Down, it's not brain surgery.

It has been said that Genesis turned coat with "Follow You, Follow Me", as that was the first single by the band that turned the female ear, thus doubling their potential fan base.  

Is prog testosterone driven, or is it a right brain/left brain thing, or what? Are there any female prog fans out there? (By which I mean females who discovered prog other than via a boyfriend and/or genuinely love it?)

Hope no one takes me for a sexist. I'd love to hear from fans who can proove me wrong, or if not at least suggest reasons for this phenomenom?

I've never met, or even established the existence of, a single female who genuinely likes Gentle Giant.  A friend of mine once had the unfortunate notion to put "Knots" on an otherwise "female-friendly" mix tape for an ex-girlfriend of mine -- I still remember how fast she slammed down on that fast forward button and the disturbed look on her face that remained afterwards.

"What the HELL WAS THAT?"

...

Where's Tauhd? We could get her perspective. I do agree, most women do not care for Prog or music that you can't dance to. Thsi is a similar thread at the Holdsworth site. Chicks at a FUSION gig are basically, "rare."

Jim "twinkle toes" Garten may have some valuable information since he spends sooo much time writhing about the nubile young hard bodies, whilst flogging his whippet on the dance floor of the local Techno establishment.  

Well, but is there any Luis Miguel male fan all over the world? I would love to say "Raggy, you're wrong", but (sadly) I can't, because all my life I tried to find just ONE girl who can really enjoy prog music, and it was impossible, I don't know why. Actually, when I turn up the cd player volume, my wife-girlfriend says "Please, honey, don't torture me"  

Well, so I'm a Lucky Man!

I know a lot of girls who loves PROG, I personally know the webmaster (woman) of Le Orme site!

Oh yeah, Italy is a very strange place to live on...

The 'girls' over at Greglake.com find this guy rather attractive:

Perhaps Gentle Giant just don't have 'it'

richardh wrote: The 'girls' over at Greglake.com find this guy rather attractive: Perhaps Gentle Giant just don't have 'it'

They find him attractive eh? Does that make ELP more listenable? I never pick my favourite bands based on looks. So that's how their pretty little minds work.

Hmmmm.......

I have long had the feeling that music, no matter the genre, effects people first and foremost at the emotional level.  I think this is true even for the most intellectual of jazz fans, classical music aficionados or progholes in general.  The older I get, the more experience I embrace, the more truthful this becomes to me.

No matter how much we intellectualize our music appreciation after we accept it on the emotional level, this seems to hold true.

I'm starting to think that our music loves are involved with how our brains are wired through birth and through early environment; simply because of the complete inability of some people to be able to appreciate, say THE JAZZ MESSENGERS, J. S. BACH or KING CRIMSON.  Just as many progholes are unable to tolerate what to us are the inanities of pop music or hip-hop.

In fact, I believe there is a doctoral thesis there for someone willing to do the research.

Stormcrow wrote: Hmmmm....... I have long had the feeling that music, no matter the genre, effects people first and foremost at the emotional level.  I think this is true even for the most intellectual of jazz fans, classical music aficionados or progholes in general.  The older I get, the more experience I embrace, the more truthful this becomes to me. No matter how much we intellectualize our music appreciation after we accept it on the emotional level, this seems to hold true. I'm starting to think that our music loves are involved with how our brains are wired through birth and through early environment; simply because of the complete inability of some people to be able to appreciate, say THE JAZZ MESSENGERS, J. S. BACH or KING CRIMSON.  Just as many progholes are unable to tolerate what to us are the inanities of pop music or hip-hop. In fact, I believe there is a doctoral thesis there for someone willing to do the research.

To a great degree I believe you are correct in this belief, but in what way does it explain the apparent inaccessibility of (noncomercial) prog to the fairer sex?

My wife claims most jazz is just dischord and chaos. I explaind it like this: Brail is just rough paper to the untrained finger, even when it's Shakespeare. The brain, by enlarging its capacity to process information from nerves in the fingertips, decodes the chaos. One has only to learn how to listen to jazz, or indeed any kind of music, to break through the chaos and discover something beautifull.

raggy wrote: To a great degree I believe you are correct in this belief, but in what way does it explain the apparent inaccessibility of (noncomercial) prog to the fairer sex?

Why do the "fairer sex" statistically tend to have more problems with math skills than do males with equal levels of education?

Current theory says it's a combination of genetics and environment.  Just the same as I theorized concerning ability to assimilate certain types of music.

There are women who "get" prog, just as there are women who "get" mathematics.  But the statistics seem to say that more women don't "get" math than otherwise.  Experience suggests the same scenario in the music realm.

Stormcrow wrote: raggy wrote: To a great degree I believe you are correct in this belief, but in what way does it explain the apparent inaccessibility of (noncomercial) prog to the fairer sex? Why do the "fairer sex" statistically tend to have more problems with math skills than do males with equal levels of education? Current theory says it's a combination of genetics and environment.  Just the same as I theorized concerning ability to assimilate certain types of music. There are women who "get" prog, just as there are women who "get" mathematics.  But the statistics seem to say that more women don't "get" math than otherwise.  Experience suggests the same scenario in the music realm.

Now we're getting somewhere. I didn't want to be the one to bring up maths, maps and the like, (though I hinted at it with the left/right brain remark).

I know a girl who likes two GG tracks. "Think of me with kindness" and "aspirations", of course.....

I know females, huge fans of Yes and Gong, but they didn't discover them by themselves. One of them is a true genius, another one has listened to diverse music (rock and classic in particular) since she was young. Coincidence or not? I'm not really sure, but I believe that a part (how big?) of the female population has a trigger to understand or like progmusic or similar. I'll guess that the part of the male population with this trigger is greater than the female. But, is it hormons or intellectuallity? Both, perhaps....

richardh wrote: The 'girls' over at Greglake.com find this guy rather attractive:

They really find the following guy attractive ?

My dear departed sister loved Yes, Floyd, Elp etc but could not tear her freinds away from Tiffany, New Kids On The Block or any of those pretty boy bands with some blond haired pimple jocky.Back in the early nineties i actually got into one of her freinds bedrooms(what a babe!!!)AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT COLOUR IT WAS DECKED OUT IN.........PINK..DAMMMIT,FLIPPIN PINK!!! AND WITH EVERY BOY BAND UNDER THE SUN AT THAT TIME PLASTERED OVER THE WALLS!!!AND WHEN I TREID TO TURN HER ONTO PROG(DARK SIDE OF THE MOON!)DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE SAID.............."WHATS THAT TRIANGLE THING WITH THE COLOURS COMING OUT OF IT ON THE COVER"...YOU GADDA BE KIDDIN ME!!!!

dude wrote: My dear departed sister loved Yes, Floyd, Elp etc but could not tear her freinds away from Tiffany, New Kids On The Block or any of those pretty boy bands with some blond haired pimple jocky.Back in the early nineties i actually got into one of her freinds bedrooms(what a babe!!!)AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT COLOUR IT WAS DECKED OUT IN.........PINK..DAMMMIT,FLIPPIN PINK!!! AND WITH EVERY BOY BAND UNDER THE SUN AT THAT TIME PLASTERED OVER THE WALLS!!!AND WHEN I TREID TO TURN HER ONTO PROG(DARK SIDE OF THE MOON!)DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE SAID.............."WHATS THAT TRIANGLE THING WITH THE COLOURS COMING OUT OF IT ON THE COVER"...YOU GADDA BE KIDDIN ME!!!!

yeah, yeah,..but dit she put out?

dude wrote: My dear departed sister loved Yes, Floyd, Elp etc but could not tear her freinds away from Tiffany, New Kids On The Block or any of those pretty boy bands with some blond haired pimple jocky.Back in the early nineties i actually got into one of her freinds bedrooms(what a babe!!!)AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT COLOUR IT WAS DECKED OUT IN.........PINK..DAMMMIT,FLIPPIN PINK!!! AND WITH EVERY BOY BAND UNDER THE SUN AT THAT TIME PLASTERED OVER THE WALLS!!!AND WHEN I TREID TO TURN HER ONTO PROG(DARK SIDE OF THE MOON!)DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE SAID.............."WHATS THAT TRIANGLE THING WITH THE COLOURS COMING OUT OF IT ON THE COVER"...YOU GADDA BE KIDDIN ME!!!!

Hey dude, you are still dyslexic !!

Guys:

I have had a slightly different experience.

I met my first girlfriend almost as a result of prog music (way back in the late 70s, when most of you were a gleam in your father's eye...)   Among other things, it was our mutual love of Genesis, Gentle Giant, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Mahavishnu Orchestra, and others that kept us together for over two years.  And I don't need to tell you that the prog concerts we went to had almost as many females as males - all of whom enjoyed the music.

When I met my (ex)-wife in 1980, one of the things that we shared was a love of prog, especially Genesis, Gentle Giant, Crimson, Floyd and Yes.  I didn't "steer" it this way (i.e., I wasn't "looking" for a woman who liked prog), it simply worked out that way (though it was an added bonus, of course).  And, again, when we went to concerts, there were plenty of females enjoying the music.

I recently attended The Church concert in New York, and found that there were a great many females (some "older" (30s, 40s) and some younger), all of whom also liked classic prog - including Gentle Giant.

Thus, I am at a more severe loss than all of you as to why this site does not have more females.  But I cannot agree that the reason has solely to do with "intellect" or "emotion" - though both of them may play a part.  There are lots of prog-loving females out there.  Why they're not here is another question.

Peace.

This is quite funny i'm a girl who loves prog and the really obscure stuff, yet I can't find a guy into it...ha!! I'm really into my music its something really important to me, and yeah there are other females out there....they are just not coming out to play yet.

Please do not use this forum as a dating service, you will only lead yourself to bitter disappointment , despondency , and ultimately, a broken Caledonian heart . [/QUOTE]

No such intentions

SV:

Thanks for weighing in!  I'm surprised that you and Tauhd have not chosen to "gang up" on us testosterone-laden guys...

Re Jim's comment, maybe I should consider opening a "personals" category for proggers...  (Hmm...let me see...uh...well...hmmm)  On second thought....maybe not... 

Keep those cards and letters coming...

Peace.

Jim Garten wrote: My wife always likes going to prog gigs for the simple reason she knows that the audience will be 99% men of a certain age - the advantage to her of this is that there is never any queue for the Ladies' loos. When we first met, I don't think Vicky had even heard of the expression 'progressive rock', but through due diligence, tenacity, sheer bloody mindedness & a relentlessly firm grip on the Hi-Fi remote control, I eventually won her round - most of it was easy (she proved to be a very apt & willing pupil), but the most challenging artists were definitely Zappa & Yes; I won her over to Zappa relatively quicky (about 5/6 years), but Yes took a lot longer (nearer 10 years). Ironically, with Yes, the breakthrough came with 'Topographic Oceans', usually seen as their most difficult album. She is still in the minority - of all our friends in long term relationships / marriages etc, I think it is only Vicky on the female side who has got into prog (indeed, our friend Chris's wife has been known to react to Hatfield & The North by bursting into the room exclaiming "what's this sh ???"). What is it with progressive rock & the male gender, eh??

My wife will be accompanying me to CalProg. This should be interesting, she's not a progger. She does like the tunes we can play and harmonize to: "Distance to the Sun" (Spock's Beard), "Lucky Man" (ELP) and "In Your Eyes" (Peter Gabriel - borderline prog).

I know IZZ will knock her socks off, but I'm not really familiar with Enchant or Eric Norlander. I hope Neal Morse does some Spock stuff she's heard. I played the MP3 "Louie" from Keneally for her. She just gave that blank stare and a smile. Hmm? http://www.calprogday.com/ - http://www.calprogday.com/  

Jim, Thank you for the info about the short loo lines. My wife will be quite happy about that.

S.Violet, welcome to the board. I hope you won't be offended by the Aussie, Brit and Canuck, they tend to get a bit offensive in their posting. Remember the American can be counted on the serve and protect.

I prefer sushi to hamburger, thank you.

NRA? No, I'm not. The only gun I own is my  and it only shoots blanks. Did Rideout start this crap?

Gotta love Frank though.

Jim Garten wrote: Careful, SV - a lady on this forum saying she cannot find a man into prog...... You'll get offers & proposals from as far afield as Australia, Canada, U.S.A., and The Netherlands - sounds great, but these will all be from socially inept buffoons... trust me, I know them all well! Please do not use this forum as a dating service, you will only lead yourself to bitter disappointment , despondency , and ultimately, a broken Caledonian heart .

That's "socially inept, happily married buffoons" to you, oh Limey slime!

>> S.Violet, welcome to the board. I hope you won't be offended by the Aussie, Brit and Canuck, they tend to get a bit offensive in their posting. Remember the American can be counted on the serve and protect. <<

Yeah? Serve and protect his own unilateral political and economic interests by driving around in huge obscene gas guzzeling Detroit chrome monsters and f%#k the enviroment and the rest of the world, cus hey, if Bush agrees to do anything about it he'll be crushed by the corporate giants who hold the mighty dollar and his balls firmly in their mits.

Thanks I feel Welcomed. Glad to be here and share my excellent opinion on matters..always love to voice my opinions, typical female , lol.

raggy wrote: >> S.Violet, welcome to the board. I hope you won't be offended by the Aussie, Brit and Canuck, they tend to get a bit offensive in their posting. Remember the American can be counted on the serve and protect. << Yeah? Serve and protect his own unilateral political and economic interests by driving around in huge obscene gas guzzeling Detroit chrome monsters and f%#k the enviroment and the rest of the world, cus hey, if Bush agrees to do anything about it he'll be crushed by the corporate giants who hold the mighty dollar and his balls firmly in their mits.

Indeed.

Gaston wrote: raggy wrote: >> S.Violet, welcome to the board. I hope you won't be offended by the Aussie, Brit and Canuck, they tend to get a bit offensive in their posting. Remember the American can be counted on the serve and protect. << Yeah? Serve and protect his own unilateral political and economic interests by driving around in huge obscene gas guzzeling Detroit chrome monsters and f%#k the enviroment and the rest of the world, cus hey, if Bush agrees to do anything about it he'll be crushed by the corporate giants who hold the mighty dollar and his balls firmly in their mits. Indeed.

Guys, enough with the politics! Danbo is a person, not the American government! (When he wrote "The American" he was referring to himself, personally.)

There's a difference between good-natured, mutual teasing, and trying to start a fight....

Max or Maani: I move we remove these posts (mine too, with the quote!) -- this sort of thing could get nasty! 

Damn, ya'll. One must understand that my posts, for the most part, have my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. Please do not confuse or assume that I am speaking on any condition of AUTHORITY. Merely having a spot o' fun with this World Wide forum. I take return posts with the assumptions that they too are having a bit o' fun.

Hey I recycle!!!!

Peace, bro's   

danbo wrote: Damn, ya'll. One must understand that my posts, for the most part, have my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. Please do not confuse or assume that I am speaking on any condition of AUTHORITY. Merely having a spot o' fun with this World Wide forum. I take return posts with the assumptions that they too are having a bit o' fun. Hey I recycle!!!! Peace, bro's

Right on, Brother Danbo!

 I also want to stress to newcomers that many of us have been teasing each other re nationality, baldness, dancing, etc, for some time here. We understand each other, have communicated with Private Messages, and have discovered just who does, and who does not, share our off-key sense of humour. We generally try to make this a fun and pleasant place to "visit."

Thus, when I call my dear cyber-pal Jim "Limey Slime," I am (mostly) joking,  and inviting a similar response from him (which I usually get).

 But: this is a forum dedicated to progressive rock, not politics. If you want to bash America, and the policies of the Bush government, I'm sure that there are plenty of other forums out there on the Web that are dedicated to such topics.

Thanks,

Peter Rideout

PS: Danbo, do you really recycle your bathroom tissue, as Jim has told me you do?

Peter Rideout wrote: Right on, Brother Danbo! Peter Rideout PS: Danbo, do you really recycle your bathroom tissue, as Jim has told me you do?

 Yes sir I do Master Rideout. 

 Rather than a flush down the ole Canadian turnpike, I bag it up and send it right to Jim's doorstep. Jim said he prefers the peanuts and corn variety. A bit of scratch with the wipe, I'd say.

Cheerio Jim, wot wot?     

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PEANUTS AND CORN!!!......THATS IT,.. IM OUTA HERE!!! THIS IS YOUR FAULT RIDEOUT I TOLD YOU NOT TO ENCOURAGE THEM!!!

MMMMMMMMMM PEEAANUUTS

PEACE BROTHERS....AND SISTER!!

ShrinkingViolet wrote: boys will be boys

hahahahahahahhahahahahaaha




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bityear wrote: You guys around here have a nasty sense of humour! Want me to join?

yes, please join! Someone HAS to stop Jim!

Notice how NASTY and TASTY end with the same 4 letters?

Peanuts or corn, anyone?

danbo wrote: Notice how NASTY and TASTY end with the same 4 letters? Peanuts or corn, anyone?

Not to mention pasty, rhinoplasty, and bilateral augmentation mammoplasty!  

(But let's not be too hasty!)