*douses self in gasloline*

 

I love BSS, but there's 100 prog albums better than it. And what? What's that? There's no 101 spot on the top 100? Shame, that.

I love parts of their work, more and more all the time, but their music is so provocative in its flashiness that it's no wonder to me that their albums are not rated that highly. For one lover theres always one hater.

 

^Maybe not, but it should at least accurately represent prog music.  Which it doesn't with the lack of ELP.  Basically this website dedicated to prog music has watered itself down so much, that it no longer caters to true prog, but some hybrid that borders on mediocrity.

As much as I hate to say it, this shows a flaw in the system. ELP and Classic Prog are synonomous. Oh well, what can you do?

Prog progresses. Crimso, ELP and that bunch started it, why do you think it ends with them too?

It's all about favorites. Just like The Grammy's and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Brain Salad Surgery is a must have but since a majority don't like it it fails? The idea that Santana, which is a great band, is referred to more importantly than ELP in the realm of Prog is mind boggling.

Let's take a look at the ratings:

53% of reviewers consider it a masterpiece worth five stars, and further 27% gave it four stars. That's 80% of reviewers, four in every bunch of five, thinking that BSS is a brilliant album. And still the majority doesn't like it? 4.15 is a failure? 

 

We need more prog reviewers like SgtPepper67!!!

 

Honestly , while I agree that Brain Salad surgery is a top 1 album I think that the top 10 should be diverse enough and including 4 ELP albums would be quite the opposite.

But then some people may find weird having 4 ELP albums in the top , but what about Genesis and Pink Floyd??? Those bands put together had 6 of the top 10 albums some months ago.

 

To the one that created this thread , I suggest sending your ELP reviews to the site as I did.

 

Anyway , don't feel bad if your 5 stars rating gets crushed by a 1 star review from a Collabaorator/ ProgReviewer saying: " Oh , this band is so bombastic and over the top , synths are so cheesy , loads of filler... Id rather put Moonmadness blah blah blah." 

 

 

It is criminal to me that Devin Townsend's Terria is not in the top 10. But not everyone shares my opinion.

You could be onto something. 

 

Even funnier that some people actually support him....

Reminds me of The Emporer's New Clothes in a way. 

 

What?!? Say it ain't so! There is no favoring here. That would bring integrity into question.  

 

And then came a proud group of musicians who instead worshipped an instrument of their own making. And still the 6 string blessed the ones that kept it in their midst. But then ELP came along, spurning the magic item that allowed their profession to exist. Turning away from some devout 6 string disciples, they invoked a curse upon their kind. Even the ungracious ELP was given rewards when the talisman was included, money and fame floating in their lucky laps.

 

But finally they rejected the master completely, and were left to rot on a humiliating beach to wither in the sun.

 

Let this be a warning to those who disparage the disciples of the 6 string, for lo, even now those disciples rule the PA, much to the chagrin of some. Do not follow the ways of the proud ELP. 

 

 

That's the point, in my case i can't love more BSS and Trilogy and believe this two albums should be in a top 100 (Never cared about Tarkus), but they also have Works II which is awful, Love Beach even worst, In the Hot Seat...well.....And don't forget Brain Salad Perjury, which is an aberration.

 

If they had became POP as Genesis, people would simply split the Prog from the POP era and care only about the first one, but ELP was Prog almost always and had really bad albums.

 

Genesis had an excuse....Gabriel left, then Hackett, Collins hates Prog, Philistines vs Gabrielites, etc etc etc, so if you are a prog fan, very rarely buy Invisible Touch, blame Collins and still love the early albums.

 

The same happens with Yes, old progheads blame Rabin and forget 90125 or Big Generator existed and love the rest.

 

But almost every Prog fan  (old enough) I know, bought Love Beach, and they didn't had an excuse for this they were the exact Emerson, Lake and Palmer,......... So who can you blame?,

 

Yes, they were tired, they had to honor some contracts, etc, but the fans were not guilty of this and we paid the bill because they were agry with Atlantic.

 

So the bad albums pull down the good ones.

 

Iván

 

 

But ELP is like that , they took it to the extreme and were among the most challenging acts for the listener. But what I'll never get is why they are labeled as too pretentious , as if it were a sin within our music genre.

 

I disagree, Canario is good Prog, the best song in the album and Memoirs of an Officer and a gentleman is also Prog, not good but Prog.

 

There are a couple of bland Lake ballads, but overall is a prog album IMHO.

 

Iván

 

 

 

A couple of months??  You gave it a lot of time, huh!!    I've listened to it atleast once a week for the last 30 some years... and I love it., so I guess you have some catching up to do.

 

I agree with the guy that said  that ELP deserves 4 albums in the top 10.  And I don't think I need to grow up to say that.  Evidently since I was around to see ELP live in the mid-70s, means I'm evidently quite grown up already.  It just seems to me that quite a lot of the reviewers here are young... and weren't around in the 70s when prog was... "really prog"... and your reviews of today's watered down prog... or whatever you're calling it these days... shouldn't be the meter for rating top prog records.

 

It doesn't really matter however, because most people in the prog industry and those of us olders who put together the prog festivals these days, know that there are some actual real up and coming prog bands out there, and we can ever so often get to see the prog masters from the past.  I have tickets to 3 or 4 of Keith Emerson's upcoming shows.

 

So if you really want to experience prog... head to Nearfest, Rosfest... or even that 3 Rivers prog festival this year.

 

BTW... the Santana thing is just a shame!

Seriously? While I question that ELP's music is so esoteric that it requires years of listening, I am genuinely baffled that someone could listen to any music that many times.

I think it's fair to say that if you don't like it after a dozen listens, you're probably not ever going to like it, unless you revisit it years later and your tastes have changed significantly in the interim. Why do you disagree? I would have almost any album almost completely memorized by that many listens. 

 

I just quoted this bit to compare ELP with Ayreon and their respective ratings. I have always wondered why  BSS is sometimes given 1 or 2 stars when has:

 

One of the genre defining moments of prog ( Karn Evil 9)

An incredible exprimental track ( Tocatta)

A powerful opener ( Jerusalem)

An OK ballad

The " Throwaway track"

 

How can 4 " bad" minutes of music spare 40 of sheer brillance I just don't know!!

 

Comparing with Ayreon , I won't go saying that " The Human Equation" is a mediocre record just because the only feature I did not like in more than 90 minutes of music : the "operatic" vocals of some singer I don't know his name. Do you know who he is???

 

 The album is great , not perfect but very enjoyable ( athough I like Ayreon's debut more)

 

Probably some people just listened to the album a few times and gave up on it , if I did that I would have given " Awake" 2 stars  Opeth's " Still life" 1 star as well as SFAM , but the point is I didn't , you can see my reviews if you feel like it.

 

And their cd's are too full of filler... And BSS is an extremely uneven record....

 

No... ELP may be incredibly important but, besides Tarkus, never achieved real magnificence in my opinion. The don't hold a candle to Genesis or even Yes.  

 

ELP always feklt a bit coldd, too technicall for my taste, despite this fact, I still believe BSS and trilogy are top 20 albums.

 

Iván

It's like they're the Dream Theater before Dream Theater, except Dream Theater actually released two good albums (Bless Kevin Moore)

 

I think "Pirates" is way too emotional. But where I find emotion , others may find cheese.

 

By the way , Ivan I have read you review of Factor Burzaco and I really want to hear the record. The point is , although this is an Argentinean band , the album is almost impossible to find. Could you tell me where you got it??

Sorry to be pedantic but this statement isn't true at all. ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition" bypasses several movements of Mussorgsky's original suite (including several of my favourites - such as Bydlo, Ballet of the Unhatched Chicks, Market of Limoges, Catacombs etc. etc.) That's hardly a complete rendition, is it?

 

  Now who needs to grow up?  I didn't listen to BSS for 30 years to learn to love it... I listened because I loved it from the first moment I heard it.  If listening to any music is hard work for you, then maybe you just don't have an understanding of it.

sleeper wrote: Does being born in the mid-eighties mean I'm not capable of deciding whats good or not for myself? If thats the case then I think we've just found proof that wisdom most certainly doesnt come with age. If you think that ELP deserve 4 albums in the all time top 10 of prog then fine, thats your choice and your free to make it, but if you think the rest of us need to follow suit then yes, you really do need to grow up.

 

I'm sure even tho you were only born in the mid-eighties, you're probably capable of deciding whats good for you.  However, your baseline... what you've been raised on... your radio at the time... gives you a whole different starting point.  And what you consider to be progressive music... is not really progressive music at  all.  So even though you are capable of deciding your own music, your starting point is most likely flawed. 

sleeper wrote: There are some rally talented bands out there, your right, and they cover a massive span of styles and genres to the point that I think the 2000's have been the best decade for prog since the 70's.

  This is what I mean.  Your idea of progressive music is flawed.  There's not that many talented prog bands out there right now.  I just came back from a weekend of current and past prog... Rosfest.  The best band of the weekend was the 70s band "Barclay James Harvest".  Wow... I can't believe someone who looks like my grandfather could play a guitar like that... incredible.  And they sounded just as fresh as they did in the 70s.  What a great show!!

 

However, there were a few new bands that were great there... but not all of them were really prog.  I loved the band Frost.  Their keyboardist,  Jem Godfrey, is a very talented techie keyboardist.. and they are a lot of fun to watch.  Another band you'd probably love is from France - Lazuli.  Great band, even if they all look like they came from a sci-fi movie and its really not prog... but hey I bought their cd.  Also all the Yesfans seemed to like the Swedish band, Moon Safari.  They were ok, but they basically put me to sleep.

sleeper wrote: I'd kill to get a chance to go to NEARfest, Rosfest or 3Rivers Prog, but being a student on the other side of the atlantic makes that impossible, instead I'll have to make do with Summers End where Huw and Steve are doing an amazing job of putting on the UK's only prog rock festivel, but the chances of them securing the likes of Le Orme, Banco, PFM, Magma, Echolyn and the majority of the bands that turn up in the states is non existent.

 

Thats too bad.  Nearfest has VDGG, Gong, Steve Hillage Band, and PFM this year.  Maybe I'll even find a new band I like.  I've heard a bit of Beardfish, but I generally like bands more after i see them live.  I think its funny that Nearfest lists their style as Symph/Zappa.  I didn't realize that Zappa had his own style!  My favorite Nearfest after 10 years was 2006... with the Keith Emerson Band.  Tarkus still rocks!!!

 

So how old are you?

Why would that baffle you?  When you're a musicolic, as you age, music tends to weave the fabric of your life.  Its your internal soundtrack.  I still listen to mostly 70s music because to me, it grounds me and reminds me where I came from.  Its a part of me.  May sound cheesey, but so true.

 

I will listen to current stuff when I feel the need to grow.  But it, in no way, will ever replace whats come before.  And I don't feel the need to call it prog either.

 

 

Henry Plainview wrote: I think it's fair to say that if you don't like it after a dozen listens, you're probably not ever going to like it, unless you revisit it years later and your tastes have changed significantly in the interim. Why do you disagree? I would have almost any album almost completely memorized by that many listens.

 

I have most albums I like memorized after 10 or so plays.  But I don't toss it away afterwards.  Not even stuff thats not my favorite.  Actually I don't even toss things I don't like.  It may grow on me later.  Sort of like Gentle Giant.  I wasn't fond of them in the 70s, but I so appreciate them now.  Thank God, I didn't toss those vinyls...

 

 

I completely agree

AMEN!

 

Now....let the campaign for ELP in the Top 10 begin. I'm sure the PAC's and 527 groups are already lined out through the doors at PA headquarters

Let's not go over-board. 

But then again, they have written material that is quintessential classic Prog rock, as in must have for any Prog connoisseur.

 

 

I would agree totally. The rankings themselves don't bother me all too much since the majority of four star albums are all worthy of recognition. But its good to see ELP getting some recognition

 

Yes I know that, if you read the poll about classical music tastes, i'm crazy about the Russian nationalist Movement since I'm 15, and very familiar with Mussorgsky, Cui, Borodin, Rimsky Korsakov and Balakirev mainly.

 

 

Cheers

 

Iván

 

It's very silly to be so worried about a bloody chart that means nothing,  and even childish to manipulate ratings, hope it hasn't hapened,

 

I would love Trilogy if it's in place 1 or place 500, I don't give a damn about charts.

 

Iván

 

It was ambitious though. No one ever said ELP weren't ambitious.

 

Genesis rebuild the image of Prog after the late 70's?

 

Not even a hardcore fan like me would buy this.

 

After the 70's Genesis not only diidn't rebuilt Propg but played anything except Prog, while a member kept giving interviews about what kind of crap Progressive Rock was......80's Genesis was one of the bands who tried to destroy Prog.

 

Alan Parsons reached their peak in the debut IMO, still two excellent albums until 1978, but EVE, is one of the worst albums ever released, if it wasn't for ·"Damned if I Do", the album would be worth 0 stars.the rest of the albums were anything but Prog, good production, clear sound, some good, others bad, but not Prog

 

Mike Oldfield also reached his peak with his debut in 1971 with Tubular Bells, other good albums like Omadawn, but if you say ELP had their heads in their vbutts, what would you think of Amarok (1990) an album with one 60 minutes track and like 5 versions of Tubular bells to try to keep audience?

 

I like the muusic of the second two, but none of them rebuilt the image of Prog.

 

Iván

This is what I mean.  Your idea of progressive music is flawed.  There's not that many talented prog bands out there right now.  I just came back from a weekend of current and past prog... Rosfest.  The best band of the weekend was the 70s band "Barclay James Harvest".  Wow... I can't believe someone who looks like my grandfather could play a guitar like that... incredible.  And they sounded just as fresh as they did in the 70s.  What a great show!!   However, there were a few new bands that were great there... but not all of them were really prog.  I loved the band Frost.  Their keyboardist,  Jem Godfrey, is a very talented techie keyboardist.. and they are a lot of fun to watch.  Another band you'd probably love is from France - Lazuli.  Great band, even if they all look like they came from a sci-fi movie and its really not prog... but hey I bought their cd.  Also all the Yesfans seemed to like the Swedish band, Moon Safari.  They were ok, but they basically put me to sleep.

I'd say it was your idea of prog that was flawed and outmoded, but since you've remained rather coy on why the modern bands are "watered down prog" I cant really start to pick holes in it yet. Oh, and your completely and utterly wrong about the lack of good prog bands around today.

I've seen Frost*, there an OK band but nothing special, just following the old conventions of Yes and co. I probably would love Lazuli, the descriptions I've read make me quite interested but I've yet to find one of their albums for a reasonable price.

Moon Safari are another band I need to check out, but their albums are very difficult to find.
 

Thats too bad.  Nearfest has VDGG, Gong, Steve Hillage Band, and PFM this year.  Maybe I'll even find a new band I like.  I've heard a bit of Beardfish, but I generally like bands more after i see them live.  I think its funny that Nearfest lists their style as Symph/Zappa.  I didn't realize that Zappa had his own style!  My favorite Nearfest after 10 years was 2006... with the Keith Emerson Band.  Tarkus still rocks!!!

Sounds like a good line up. Beardfish bored me silly on CD, though are a fair bit better on stage. The Zappa comment must be because they try to put a fair buit of humour into their music, and cringeworthy attempts they are IMO.

WTF happened to the page?


-------------
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

 

Being in a concert band in my early years... I doubt this is true.  And since I'm pretty sure you didn't have a singer.. much less one with Greg's voice... I'm pretty sure thats not true.  I'm also sure that your version didn't include "The Sage"... which is just so lovely... Of course, this is just MY opinion.