Worst Prog Band?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Top 10s and lists
Forum Description: List all your favourites here
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60203
Printed Date: July 20 2025 at 13:24
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Topic: Worst Prog Band?
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Subject: Worst Prog Band?
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 04:25
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There are certainly alot of bands out there that are progressive, but not necessarily 'enjoyable' to listen to.
I'd have to state my first pick as the band Psyopus. They're a real ''''tasty treat'''' if you catch my drift.
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Replies:
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 04:32
I don't think theres a be all and end all or bad prog bands, but Psyopus are close... Whoever writes a track called "The Pigkeeper's Daughter" has something wrong with them 
I'd also put UneXpecT in a close second - Just really, really screwed up stuff. -Joel ------------- 
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Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 04:36
All other arguments are void.
Couldnt get through an entire album of theirs in one sitting, but they are talented are weird, unpredictable... I think they're worth a listen.
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progkidjoel wrote:Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 04:40
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Sorry, but I feel this thread will get very negative. Someone will mention Dream theater, someonel else ELP....  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 06:00
^ Dead right it will - and yes it can be guaranteed that DT will be mentioned! ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 06:03
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1 - best/worst, all subjective
2 - pointless negativity 3 - waste of server space ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 06:50
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One of my least favorite recent dicoveries is Vangough.... how can people give this 4 and 5 stars?? Veeeery cheasy, very unoriginal. I also can't stand all the Symphony X clones à la Vanden Plas. ghhh.... I think these topics are not the most interesting (@Jim Garten), but here we can be babies for a short while  ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: proggy
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 07:23
| Focus |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 07:29
Really? Worst prog band? Unbelievable......  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 07:37
| I won't say "worst" but Brian Eno is probably my least favorite artist. |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 08:25
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 09:34
Picking a "worst" is much worse than picking a "best". It's easy to pick the most over-appreciated or underrated band, but the worst? Kudos to Jim for his comment
------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 09:35
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Anyway, I'm not going to complain like a whiny brat in this thread, so I will participate by saying GTR (if that's prog). I don't like Ozric Tentacles either.
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Green Shield Stamp
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 09:47
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I've yet to hear a prog band that I dislike - but I'm quite selective with my CD buying and listening.
Compared to other music genres (modern R&B, Rap,etc), I find it hard to make any substantial negative comments about any prog band.
So my answer? The worst prog band?..............................There isn't one! ------------- Haiku Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
Posted By: Luke. J
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 10:55
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Let's face it, we've had this about a dozen times, and the answer's always been the same.. either ELP or.. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1187 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1187  |
Posted By: Gog/Magog
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 11:13
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Mastodon -------------  |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 11:22
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I don't know about "Worst Prog Band," but I'd vote Steve Howe's first solo LP as Worst Prog Album! Ugh! The first Greenslade LP didn't float my boat, but I haven't heard it in years. I tend to avoid bad prog, it shortens your life!
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 11:25
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If they're bad I don't listen to them, so I'm utterly unqualified to judge. If they're bad and you've bothered to listen to them enough to have a definitive opinion, you're wasting your time. I guess someone has too much spare time on their hands...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 12:01
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These threads degenerate quickly. Especially when wisdom is ignored and Sigur Ros doesn't win as worst band ever. ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 12:07
I think that one could build reasonably objective frameworks for evaluation, but considering that none of us have heard every Prog album, plus we don't all agree on what is Prog, it's an impossible task. All we can say is what we think is the worst Prog album from what we know. I think it's easier if we go by categories that we know really well. I may still, though other than Magma and a few others I don't listen to it so much anymore, know Zeuhl the best. Magma's Merci, Musique Noise's (Eskaton offshoot) Fulmines Regularis, and Troll's Volume 2 are commonly considered bad albums. I actually like material off all of those albums. I was disappointed in Offering's (that Vander project) offering on the whole. I won't go for worst Zeuhl album, but Merci's "Call from the Dark (Ooh Baby)", though a stab at pop, is worth noting for this topic: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6remm_01-magma-call-from-the-dark-ooh-ooh_music - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6remm_01-magma-call-from-the-dark-ooh-ooh_music To be honest, from what I know, there is one band's album that, from what I know, I consider to be the worst I've heard in a Prog category, but, though a largely disliked album, I'd rather not mention it. Sorry for the long post, I've just wasted considerably more server space.  ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 12:13
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Incidentally, I do think that there are far too many best and worst topics here. I don't mind them provided that an adequate framework is provided to analyse within set parameters. EDIT: actually, I don't really mind these topics at all and they're popular. And I guess its implied that it's what one thinks is worst or best according to what one knows. What's your favourite or least favourite can get pretty boring too. We would benefit from more music theory academics involved in fora discussion, but as long as there's lively discussion and people don't get angry about differences in taste (which is silly I think), then little harm done (of course pissing off the bands could be detrimental to the site). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 12:17
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ELP AND Dream Theater.
End of thread. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 12:44
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There are a lot prog bands I don't like. That, of course, doesn't mean they are bad bands, they're just not my style of music. I can't pick a bind that I think is the "worst". As several people have said before, I think the topic is very negative and pointless. ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 12:53
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It's obviously a negative topic, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it pointless. It has meaning and purpose, but the exercise could be handled in a more meaningful and forceful way. As I like to think, even if a topic is lacking clear purpose and profundity, and usefulness, we can always bring meaning and purpose to the proceedings. Even a lame topic can facilitate the creation of an entertaining and insightful thread (and satisfying discussion for some). EDIT: For me bad topics, generally, are those that don't generate discussion. This is already at page 2 (even if there hasn't been any real discussion between people on the topic, and most posts are related to the approach or purpose), Anyway, enough babbling from me on this. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 15:28
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I'm with Jim. Sorry. And if the Pigkeeper's Daughter had been a Jethro Tull track, that argument wouldn't even have been brought up. ** leaves, shaking his head ** ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: TheSubhuman
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 15:53
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I wonder if anyone has noticed that there is already a similar thread around, called "Prog Bands You Just Can't Get Into". Does the site really need TWO such negative threads, in which people are free to bash whatever they don't like, in most cases without even bothering to give an explanation as to why they don't like it? As regards Jim's comment, as an admin he has the power to close this thread, if he doesn't agree with its premises. Shaking heads sure is not enough. |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 15:58
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 16:28
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Okay, somebody claimed Focus was the worst prog band. I'm not that into them or anything, but you've had a very generous life if Focus is the worst you've heard. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 17:32
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sure it's beating a dead horse... but can't think of a better example than Dream Theater.... and it is true... that is not saying they are bad... but has there a band with more written about.. a more celebrated group in prog that is thought to be a more a collection of muscians than a 'band'. if anyone else can really think of a better way to think of what a 'worst band' might be... I'm all ears... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 18:08
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I like some of DT's work. What I can't behind mostly is the Neoprog groups mostly and certainly mostly what John Mitchels been involved with. I am telling you Styx gets such a bad rap around prog circles for being commercialized but the stuff I have heard from Arena, Kino and It Bites really is sterile and watered down in myho. I just don't get it.
Of course taste is relative so if you happen to like these groups that is fine I just don't. ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 18:17
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I, unlike most people, do not grumble over a negative thread. You have so many positive ones, why not let us beat the piss out of some crappy bands? Here's some: Meshuggah, 3rdegree, Supertramp. Mmm...not much I know that's truly abysmal. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 18:23
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Heartscore (I disregard that he's an artist and not a band). No idea what that man's up to, but the music/samples I heard once atrocious.   ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 18:31
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I guess talking taste, Frost* is one that left me cold. Haha. Obviously it's not the band, but me that's missing something, because it's beloved by many who enjoy progressive rock. I read somewhere something saying something like it is the project that saved modern progressive rock from mediocrity with its fresh and innovative approach to an all too stale genre. If that's the future of prog, then future prog is not for me.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 18:34
A masterstroke of alliteration.
------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 18:36
If it's about Milliontown, that album deserves some good stars. With their latest, prog is hardly up for discussion. I wouldn't award "worst" medals based on preferences (warms me/leaves me cold, sets a bright prog future/killjoy, etc.). I'd look into something that is really mistreats the well-known prog musical elements. Prog, but a disgrace of prog. -------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 18:37
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I'm disappointed with myself, I should have said, "somewhere something saying something similar, or some such sentiment...".
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 07 2009 at 18:52
I know, but I wanted to offer an example from the perspective of taste -- as in worst for oneself -- and remembered reading a sentiment like what I wrote which I wanted to share (incidentally, I was referring to a different band in my first post in this thread). I know it's not the worst album (Milliontown) or the worst I've heard. Not even the most I've disliked (T.M.'s I'd rate lower and others). I doubt I've heard the worst Prog album.... Actually, I've heard some real stinkers -- really amateurish stuff that's poorly produced and played, but darned if I can remember the names. If I remember one in particular, I will post some samples -- terribly amateurish stuff. Objectively poor. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: camilleanne
Date Posted: August 08 2009 at 00:02
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[QUOTE=Snow Dog]Sorry, but I feel this thread will get very negative. Someone will mention Dream theater, someonel else ELP.... [/QUOTE------------- The planet is fine the people are f**ked. -George Carlin- |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 08 2009 at 03:02
Well...actually, I'VE written the worst prog album ever!! However, out of respect for humanity, I decided to burn all the tapes. Someday you'll thank me for that!! You won't get to hear my whiny, Eno-esque voice, nor my Chris-Squire-Gone-Mad bass parts!!!
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: August 08 2009 at 03:04
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^^
Well that actually sounds pretty awesome to me! -------------
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 08 2009 at 14:34
Hey, thanks! My prog credentials are solid, I was bassist for Lon Jones (one of Bob Fripp's first Guitar Craft students) in Tulsa. It was fun to play counterpoint bass against Fripp's "new standard tuning!" That's a Hugh Manson bass I'm playing, Hugh is Steve Howe's luthier in Exeter, UK. SOMEDAY I'll digitize the piles of recordings I have and put them onto a MySpace page, I'm a typical perfectionist but all my friends like the stuff. However, I'm not kidding about "smelly prog"! All of us composers lay a big egg, look at Yes and "Union"! One of the guys in Yes nicknamed it "Onion" because it made his eyes water when he heard it! Thanks for the inspiration, I'll get on it this fall! |
Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: August 08 2009 at 14:44
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Magma ....................
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 08 2009 at 15:23
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------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: August 08 2009 at 15:27
They really have changed their style. Didn't see that coming. |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: August 08 2009 at 15:28
Worst emo band maybe but worst prog band I think not. To each their own. It's your opinion. |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: August 09 2009 at 12:35
| SIGUR ROS |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: August 09 2009 at 12:41
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What about Sigur Ros?
prog version of Alvin and the Chipmunks, more or less...
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Posted By: Concentration Moon
Date Posted: August 09 2009 at 12:48
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Every Sigur Ros song sounds exactly the same. I really don't know why they're so popular.
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: August 09 2009 at 12:53
My thoughts , exactly.
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Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 03:43
Something like this  . But in the meantime a great band like Vandenplas is already bashed as well  proving the admins points. In the end this is indeed not very useful. On the other hand the "bands that are hard to get into" thread was a big success. Maybe it's just how you put it into words ... ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 04:05
wow Mansons is my local also.You from Exeter?I play bass also ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 10:49
| What's wrong with Sigur Ros? I don't love them, but I respect their music. You could not come up with more beautiful stuff and I'd love to see you people try. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 12:18
you expected Offering to be another kind of Magma, but in that case Vander would not have needed to form them. did you hear the album "A Fïïèh"? it sounds like a black mass to me, and it is my favorite album of them -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 12:35
I don't have that. Thank you. Sounds like it will be my cup of tea. I just have the first two. I did know some Offering music from concerts before getting any Offering albums, including "Hymne Kobaian". I actually find a fair amount of enjoyment in Offering I-IV, but didn't like that as much as what live Offering I've heard. I'd also read that some recent Magma music that I love sounded like Offering ("Felicite Thosz" I think it is). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 12:35
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Sigur Ros honestly people? The worst prog-band is probably something I haven't heard. The worst I've heard is probably Starcastle. Sigur Ros? What's wrong with this forum? ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:49
Haha, OK.
So many things... ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 20:16
Are you basing your opinions of neo prog on Arena, Kino and It Bites? I like all 3, but not exactly the pillars of neo prog. Especially Kino and It Bites. Great bands, but sometimes wonder if they should be moved (I think Kino has been moved). E ------------- 
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 20:22
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I love Sigur Ros.Though they take time.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 21:43
| Sigur Ros is amazing and are definitely not the worst prog band. And yes, they do take time to appreciate, but once you get into them, they become one of your favorite bands. |
Posted By: DRACCA
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 21:21
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The first Greenslade LP didn't float my boat, but I haven't heard it in years. I tend to avoid bad prog, it shortens your life! [/QUOTE]
The first 4 Greenslade albums are great instrumentally but Dave Lawson's style of singing is ridiculously annoying. No disrespect to David Greenslade though. ------------- INNER TEMPLE |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 22:18
That is made of people. With different tastes.
And with different paramenters of what's good and bad. In terms of skills, there ARE far worse bands... There have to be worse bands, for sure. But I haven't heard that one yet...
Again, eye of the beholder... -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 23:00
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My point is that you may hate Sigur Ros. You may think they're absolute garbage. However, to say they're the worst band on the site I think is just naive. It seems to be a decision fueled by the fact that other people here really enjoy them. I think the Flower Kings make just completely empty, terrible music, but I would never say they're the worst band on the site. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 23:05
If you really think prog is immune from being bad, then you have some serious thinking to do. And my answer: probably some Tech Metal band with growls and screams that I'll never listen to. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 23:09
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I see the point. If nobody liked them, I wouldn't say they're the worst... Well, while that could really happen and it would be quite a normal behavior of someone with too high or too low an ego, this is a case where no matter how hard I try i can't find any other band from all the ones I've heard that seem worse to me. I mean, i don't like CAN, I can't stand them... but I can hear why other people love them and I recognize their talent. The same with many other bands. i would even go as far as to say Kayo Dot's DAWCT, while an atrocious album in my view, has enough going on so that I can see why other peop,e consider it a masterpiece. With the Icelandic band, I just can't. Whining, repetition, drowsiness with no structure and no nothing, overindulgence of a different kind than the typical show-off act... sorry, I think they are just not good. I'm sure there are far worse acts. This one, though, inmediately jumps to my mind.
Maybe you have a point. Maybe I've heard worse things. But they are regarded as bad stuff anyway. with Sigur Ros, the fact that they are so overrated (in my view, I have to use this word) makes me add negative points to them.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 23:11
Actually The Red Chord is another one of the worst bands around, and The Dillinger Escape Plan is terrible too. They have some redeeming features (technicallity or something) but there are terrible bands in that genre. Alas, I added the first one. So while I recognized them as prog-metal, I know they suck. Prog can be bad. -------------
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 00:27
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To The T: If you think that Sigur Ros is whiny, repetitive and has no structure, you really haven't been listening to them. Just because the singer has a high-pitched, immasculine voice does not mean he is whining. Sure, they repeat their riffs and melodies just like all those other post-rock bands, but while they keep a theme constant, they are changing what surrounds it. They work on the atmosphere and the dynamics and what not. It's just another style of composition. Which leads to the structure. There is clearly structure to the music and it's not even worth coming up with a counterexample for that.
And to put The Red Chord alongside The Dillinger Escape Plan is absolutely ridiculous. The Red Chord is all about pummeling you to the ground with heaviness and technicality. Ultimately it's very forced and lacks depth. The Dillinger Escape Plan, however, is one of the greatest visionaries of their genre. No other band fuses technical metal & hardcore with jazz rhythms/polyrhthms, electronics and ambient and/or cleanly sung passages like they do. It's some of the most innovative and interesting music out there. It's been hailed by critics and musicains alike as some of the most creative and influential music of it's kind, and on more than one occasion they have been called "the Radiohead of metal," and for good reason. You are, again, not giving them the proper attention. Or maybe you were turned off by their often chaotic & dissonant sound at first and then approached the rest of their albums with a negative, and resolute mindset that the rest didn't even register with you at all. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 01:38
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^I can understand our differences in appreciation for the bands I and afterwards you mentioned, but what's this with calling things "ridiculous"? That's usually the sign of an intolerant soul or an inmature person. It's all tastes good man, tastes. Learn that and you'll be much more comfortable hearing opinions that you don't like. With Sigur Ros, sorry but I fail to see what you see on them. Maybe I'm blind, maybe I actually see better than you. Who's to say who is right? On the Red Chord thing, it's obviously not ridiculous to put them on the same sentence with the Dillinger Escape Plan since, at least in PA, they belong to the same sub-genre, and the person above just said, also maybe without enough arguments, that probably a tech-metal band would be the worst around these areas. I'm just saying those are two example that match that, even though there are many, many more that actually disprove such assertion. I'm glad you enjoy DEP to such a high degree. It's a pity I can't share the feelings. Where you see all that magic in polyrhythms and innovation I just hear over-indulgent noise that is created for the sake of being created and with the purpose of channeling anger through show-off and violence, carefully camouflaged as technicallity. While there are bands that succeed in doing this, I'm not of the opinion that DEP does this. That they are called the "Radiohead of metal", well, that just proves that they were called the "Radiohead of metal", nothing else. Many people don't like Radiohead. Are they also ridiculous in their ideas?
This idea that when a person thinks something's not good is just because of lack of proper attention would mean that, if we would all give the proper attention to things, we'd all should like the same, wouldn't we? Where are personal tastes and opinions left?
Respectfully yours,
T -------------
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 02:39
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Calling something "ridiculous" is not the sign of an intolerant person. I was not attacking you personally and I'm completely comfortable with differing opinions and was merely laying out my own. It's also not the sign of an inmature personal because, well, frankly that isn't a word. It's just me describing my tastes with a sense of confidence and conviction. And, with all respect, once you realize that not everybody expresses their opinions in as politically correct, reverent or nice ways as you do, you'll be much more comfortable hearing opinions that you don't like.
The problem with your response first off is that you fail to address my points about Sigur Ros. I was pointing out what everybody else sees in them that you do not. Certainly I don't expect you to listen to them again with those things in mind because stylistically they don't play music tailored to your tastes, but the argument is whether or not they are "bad." Partly what you are doing is taking your tastes for a sound as a basis for your argument about more objective matters like having structure. The rest of it surely is just the fact that your tastes tell you that it isn't enjoyable music. That I can't argue with, but you brought in a "who's right and who's wrong" thing, which is a new matter entirely and one that I didn't speak of at all.
And I did not say it is ridiculous to put DEP and The Red Chord in the same sentence, I said it was ridiculous to put them on the same tier in terms of quality. The only people who I've ever known not to be able to differentiate between these two bands (or substitute The Red Chord for another one of those run-of-the-mill techy bands) are people who simply can't get beyond the noisy aspect of the music. Even my dad has mentioned that he noticed a great level of musicality in DEP's music but he couldn't tolerate the sound enough to hear much of the album. My point was that if you listen to a Red Chord album and a DEP album, you can't deny that DEP brings much more to the table than The Red Chord does, regardless of whether or not you like either of them. Also, you took the quote completely out of context.
When I said that you weren't paying proper attention, I was not claiming that it was the gateway to your personal revelation about the band, nor was I factoring it into tastes. People write off Dream Theater for a variety of reasons, and some of them are understandable, but if someone says "Dream Theater are bad because they play metal," you would refute that claim right away because that person clearly doesn't like metal and that fact alone means that no matter what DT are doing the person won't like it. Similarly, if that person said "Dream Theater and Black Tide are two of the worst bands I've ever heard because I can't stand the sound of metal guitars," you would find something wrong with that statement, because anybody can tell that Dream Theater are great musicians, which is reflected in their performances, great enough not to be put down so low as Black Tide regardless of sound preference. That person is paying attention only to the sound and not the finer details in the music. My point was, you are writing both of those bands off because they are loud and noisy quite often, and your tastes prevent you from hearing those finer details.
But, in the end, this thread was made just for us to state which band we like least (poor word choice on the thread creator's part though, when making the title). But one thing leads to another and here we are writing out really long responses to each other which won't accomplish anything. I do like discussion and debate though so I'm glad we got started on this. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 03:18
Howdy! I lived in Exeter about 1994 to 1997, when I strolled into Hugh's shop off of High Street (what a find THAT was!!) That beauty was just waiting for me to buy it! Hugh is a great chappie, I need to run back over there (I'm in Chicago presently) and visit all my UK chums! Hes' been kind enough to invite me backstage to Yes in Chicago, amazing experience! I love Devon dearly and hope to move back someday! Rock on, tell Hugh that Chuck from Chicago said Hi!
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 05:24
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Eh, I'm bored and have some spare time, so I'll throw in my x amount of cents/dollars into the ring. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Sigor Ros, but despite that I can't understand how someone can't see how massively influential they've been. I don't like TFK at all, but I understand their importance anyway. Red Chord/ DEP, I don't agree entirely with Chris, but I'm more inclined to agree more with Chris' points than Ts about them too. I listen with different ears when I put on different music. If I put on a pop rock band, say like Paramore, I'm not going to put it on and expect 10-15 minute extreme progressive metal epics in the style of Between the Buried and Me, or Opeth. If I put on Merzbow, it's not because I want a hit of melody, the exact opposite. I'll put that on when I want complete mind f**k when I'm in the mood. If I put on Joe Satriani, it's because I'm in the mood for something with a lot of melodic hooks and melodic guitar lines. And see with The Red Chord vs DEP, I don't think you can listen with the same ears when put them on side by side. When I'm listening to The Red Chord, if I put on the first album, the ears I'm listening with is that of a tech deathcore/grindcore/metalcore mind set. Their later stuff, less of a deathcore thing, but more of a tech death/tech grindcore mindset. It's true that I think DEP is more innnovative. They are one of the most innovative bands of the last 10 years, easily. The sheer amout of bands I've seen influenced by them, whether it be local bands in my home city of Melbourne, or otherwise, is staggering. They've influenced me too as a musician and guitarist. As bands, yeah, I do like DEP more as well. But come on now Chris, they play two different styles of music. One is a mathcore/experimental metal band that shows their hardcore roots in their music quite clearly while the other is quite obviously more rooted in deathgrind, deathcore, death metal, metalcore and tech death and while does display hardcore influences, it's not as obvious and as common an element in their music. "fuses technical metal & hardcore with jazz rhythms/polyrhthms, electronics and ambient and/or cleanly sung passages like they do" Well, the Red Chord don't exactly play the same genre of music anyway, so for me personally I'm not gonna put on The Red Chord and say "Oh man, it doesn't have the jazz rhythms/polyrhythms/polymeters I hear in some of that mathcore/experimental metal stuff". The Red Chord do their own thing and they do it quite well, significantly better than most of the "genericmetalcoremallcore" bands out there. They are a lot more melodic than DEP too. Not melodic in the sense of "OH MAN SUPER HAPPY BLATANT MELODIC HOOKS OH sh*t OH MAN" but more that they are less inclined to use dissonance/atonality as much and melodic leads are more common, whereas many of the DEP solos are not really based on the melodic diatonic scales I think The Red Chord is fusing deathgrind, death metal, grindcore and deathcore in a very modern way, an approach I appreciate highly in a world where we have a lot of bands that are basically parodies of themselves because they are just content to sound like 1980s Morbid Angel ,Obituary and Napalm Death still and haven't realized the times have changed and moved forward. Can I think of any other band that does deathgrind/death metal/tech death/deathcore/metalcore in the way The Red Chord does? Not a single band to be honest. The closest I can think of is Born of Osiris, but they lack the deathgrind and grindcore elements completely and only have the death metal/deathcore/ tech elements. Now, I'm not saying you gotta like the band more, but I think they have positive merits, more so than many realize. There are many people saying The Red Chord is part of the generation of extreme metal bands, along with Between the Buried and Me, Born Of Osiris and Veil of Maya, who despite what the "Troo and kvlt" metal heads believe to be not "Troo and kvlt" metal, are actually pushing the boundaries of metal. It's always that kinda cycle really. When the first death metal bands came out, it wasn't accepted, but then years later people finally began to understand what they were trying to do in the first place and they see it as brilliant and forward thinking. Same thing with those 4 bands above. In addition to the metal bands they were influenced by, they were into the core stuff and want to incorporate that into the music but the "troo" metal brigade that apparently know better want to push them down into a hole in the ground. And it's exactly that attitude that made me want to dissociate myself with metalhead culture somewhat and just try something new. As it is now, half my iTunes list isn't even metal anymore to be honest. I've become a big fan of core music, which is apparently the "enemy" of metal, but I don't care anymore about "staying troo" to metal, I just like what I like really. The result? We can NEVER MOVE FORWARD AND PROGRESS because people are afraid of the unknown and the different. It's human nature. So setting aside subjective stuff and the fact I do think DEP is a more innovative, more interesting to listen to band, I do at least believe The Red Chord has it's place in helping metal to move forward and is at least somewhat innovative, if not to the great extent DEP is. So when you put on The Red Chord, try listening with different ears and try to hear it more from an extreme metal perspective, perhaps you might hear something in it you didn't last time you heard it. You might not, but it doesn't hurt to try anyway. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 11:43
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The worst Prog band is probably:
In other words, no band in our catalogue can be cionsidered the worst Prog band, so this thread is a search for problems. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 11:55
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It's funny how the mention of these rather modern metal bands as possible "worst ever" groups brings inmediate reaction of some fans. I guess it's a generational thing: while you could be very comfortable with people calling ELP or DT the worst ever, you have to jump when a band of your times is being viewed under a less than flattering light. Youth breeds change, no question about that. I'm kind of trapped in between that and a more conservative approach towards my music. Hell, without youth, there will be no changes and evolution. But if your values reigned supreme, at the same time, chaos and overindulgence would also be without restraint. Anyway, I like what I read. At least people are discussing in a civil manner.
Now I'll have to use the quoting style to reply. I'll reply Moatillata first. Harry and his utter love for tags and genres and subgenres will come next, if I can manage.
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:02
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Well Harry, the main thing I got out of that is that you recognize way more genres than I do. To be quite honest, while I understand your points, I still don't agree. If you play a sound sample lasting only a few seconds of each band, I could pick out DEP easily, but not The Red Chord. The reason is that DEP treats its tones, rhythms and melodies in a different way than any other band does. Still to this day, I don't think anyone has been able to replicate the DEP sound exactly. When I hear The Red Chord, I don't complain about what I don't hear that I like in other bands (as you mentioned). I just hear a band who hasn't put any effort into finding its own sound. The guitar tones, the drumwork, etc. all sound like a different application of something I've already heard before. And while clearly The Red Chord's guitar work can be more blatantly melodic than DEP's, DEP's is more distinct and memorable for me, and I can pick out the melody in any of those crazy riffs.
Another one of the main things is the vocals. I don't think the vocalists of The Red Chord, Born of Osiris or Veil of Maya have anything close to their own sound. The vocalists of DEP and BTBAM, however, can't be mistaken. Between timbre and style, nobody sounds quite like either of them. Anyway, I think my point is that it's isn't that The Red Chord is terrible or anything, and for what they do, they do do it quite well. However, I'm not quite sure who I'm supposed to compare them to to make a valid point in your eyes so it's difficult for me to get it all across. What I think is that they are simply talented guys playing simply good music, but are not one that stands out tonally or creatively. But to be fair, I'm not sure what exactly it is about them that you think is pushing boundaries from your explanation. Is it that they fuse "deathgrind, death metal, grindcore and deathcore in a very modern way?" ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:13
This is a good example of how subjective this opinions may be
Honestlñy, I believe it's a great release that I rated with 4 stars as somebody else who has rated Hybris and every Peter Gabriel album with two stars.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:28
OK, I'm going to keep this one as brief as possible.
Sigur Ros, now that you've brought in new adjectives to describe them, it's become clear that you have only listened to one of their albums. I went to your collaborator page, and sure enough, you've only put down a review for ( ), and for that I can understand your position completely. Well, I don't know for a fact that you listened to several Sigur albums and only reviewed one, but it seems like you hated ( ) so much that you didn't bother with any of their other albums. If that is true, it's not fair to say they don't change or have one mood only. I don't see what's wrong with having a common mood throughout an album, but if a band maintained that mood throughout all of their albums, I would agree that that is not desireable. However, please take a few minutes to listen to their song "Gobbledigook" and tell me that Sigur Ros doesn't change, revolves around "bland repetition," and maintains one mood only.
DEP: sure, you like some techy bands, but what I noticed from your profile about which ones you like is that they are not the hectic, noisy kind like DEP and TRC are. Certainly the ones you do like are loud and what not too, but there is a certain thing about the speeds, dissonance and spastic nature in these two bands' music that differs from the ones you enjoy most.
The parameters thing is completely true, but what I was trying to get at is if two bands fail on the sibjective taste level, they can still be evaluated in other ways, like instrumental skills. I was not trying to tie it into the topic of this thread; I was merely pointing out that even if your tastes tell you something is bad, you can still look past that, if only for a moment, and evaluate other parts of the music. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:28
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[double post] ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:36
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Damn Harry you really should be named "Genre Specialist", period. None manages to hear more genres in the music that you do. While I applaud that, in a way, scientifical approach to listen to music, I think we don't have to take it too far: we're still talking about rock, and metal, and really, there are about 100 people on earth who can really go to listen to something in a "death/tech grindcore mindset". Fantastic expression, though.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:49
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:51
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I'm still noticing that we're jumbling the topic of this thread with "best/worst." I think when everyone is pointing out to The T that Sigur Ros or DEP is massively influential or innovative as a point in their argument, he goes "doesn't mean it's good." Obviously, saying that a band is influential so everyone should like them is silly, but what everyone is trying to say is that if a band is as massively influential and innovative as Sigur Ros is, they can't possibly be called the "worst" band.
Like, I really don't like Metallica, but I would never call them the worst band. Rather, a band who has been influenced by Metallica who themselves have made no mark on music creatively would be the worst band, or one of the worst bands. I see the qualities in Metallica's music and I see what impact they've had on music.
I guess the point here is, T, that you don't have to recognize Sigur Ros as good, but you can't say that they're one of the worst bands in the history of music simply because your tastes don't take kindly to them. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:57
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Mmm.... maybe so Moatilliatta, maybe so.
But remember people here said DT and ELP can be some of the worst bands (not talking about The Doctor's joking post of course).... So maybe we're free to say it because maybe it's true for us.
Someone even said DT is literally the worst prog band ever even after recognizing they are fantastically skilled. So it seems other people when talking about other bands don't have to make the same differentiation? I think not. Is just that for somne of us, a particular band just represents all that is wrong. While there might be much worse bands than Sigur Ros in many many ways, I probably haven't heard it, and neither have you. So I have to choose from the ones in our database, don't I? As everybody else did.
Obviously, if we compare Sigur Ros with Justin timberlake.... well.... I mean....
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:57
You didn't find the build and finale of Festival extremely more peppy/postive/happy/etc. than the material on ( )? Still, I will agree that Festival is more on the bland/boring side of Sigur Ros compositionally so I can't argue with you too much there. Anyhow, most of the new album and even a handful of songs on Takk... might be a lot more to your liking, especially the first four tracks. It still won't be one of your favorites, but still, you may notice that they aren't as "bad" as they used to be. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 13:01
Well I would use a similar argument for the people who say those things about DT and ELP. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 21:17
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Worst prog band.....don't know, don't really want to think about it....
Worst album on this site....I do know....
Pat Metheny's Zero Tolerance for Silence. No contest....It is so unbelievable as to be a joke.
He also has one of the best modern Jazz albums on the site (with some proggy elements, The Way Up) and lot of solid stuff. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 09:56
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Well, just for fun, I'll mention what to me was the worst album and band I've ever heard in the prog genre. It was actually the result of a mistake in a CD order I placed. Greg Walker accidentally sent me "No More Rhymes But Mr. Brainstorm", by a band called Theater. I think they are Italians. He suggested I go ahead and give it a listen, and just keep it if I liked it. They are not on this site, and I have no idea if they have any other albums, but I would sincerely hope not. Bad production, bad playing, bad songs with bad arrangements, and an absolutely horrible singer who I can't imagine anyone enjoying. The general style was kind of a Genesis/Fish Marillion type of thing. But the band were so obviously amateur musicians (I'm a musician myself, so skill level is fairly obvious for me when listening to music) and the singer so off key and horrid sounding, I have to wonder how this album ever even got made. Anyway, this album pretty much fits Ivan's criteria, except the fact it was actually made. I really can't imagine how anyone on this board (or anywhere really, except possibly the band themselves......and I question even that) could enjoy it. But, they made the thing, so I guess maybe someone liked it. Since it was a mistake, Greg let me send it back and sent me the one he was supposed to send in the first place. Thank goodness for that. (I had to go digging through old emails to find the name, but the bad memory of the album remains with me still...........it was like a traumatic experience, it was that bad.........but I suppose there was humor in it as well, as I tried to imagine how it ever got made into a complete CD package to be sold to unsuspecting prog heads looking for something new and different) |
Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 10:33
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This band is the worst prog band: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BgNhR9oisM Do you know why they are the worst prog band? There is only one reason. Here it is: Because Google said so. That's why. As an aside, I remember there was a point where if you typed "Worst Band in the World" into Google it would suggest Creed. BTW: In case it wasn't clear, I don't think that the band I posted above (Behold... The Arctopus) is the worst prog band. I actually rather liked it. But you cannot argue with the omniscience of Google, and that is the final word. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 12:01
^ Those two soloing together can hardly be the worst prog band ever.... But the other google veridict, Creed, seems like a more rational choice. -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 12:18
You realize we are in the same generation as you? And I don't like the assumption that the defense of Sigur Ros is a result of them being a modern band. If the last reply I saw was saying that Focus was the worst prog band ever I would have given the same response, even though I don't particularly like Focus. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 13:07
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Conor... come on... you know the answer is "A Hero A Fake"!
------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: sir_fragalot
Date Posted: August 15 2009 at 22:11
| Well if you want to consider them prog Coheed and Cambria. I can only listen to a song for 1 second before I turn that guy's whiney emo voice off. If not then I can't really judge a worst band. |
Posted By: deafmoon
Date Posted: August 16 2009 at 13:06
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The Worst Prog Band, or any band for that matter, is a band who has these characteristics... 1. The desire to be some one/band other than who they are.
2. The Clone syndrome of their instruments, sound and playing after another band.
3. Unoriginal song-writing and lick stealing.
4. Inability to read music or create on their own.
5. Inconsistent song structures that become snippets of time changing garbage.
These points are possessed by a real band. A band many folks on these forum pages, have raved
adinfinitum about. And why people buy into hearing these clones, is beyond my understanding.
------------- Deafmoon |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 20:18
Oh yes, those guys! ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: JethroZappa
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:21
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I've never liked Goblin
------------- "I hope they all get an indigestion, I hope, hope, hope, hope, hope!" |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 15:04
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Can Faust Amon Duul 2-sorry about this, heard fantastic things said about them, delved into several classic period recordings, and it did not stand the test of time for me, at all-some of it does not sound progressive at all, and almost like new wave! In the german scene, much prefer Triumvirat, Passport, Dzyan, Wallenstein, Brainstorm |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 15:09
I knew I shouldn't have looked at this thread! (Could it be some 'new wave' was influenced by such bands?) ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 15:55
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This thread is really old now that I've come across it. I would have to say one of my least favorite bands on this site is It Bites. I saw them open for Jethro Tull in San Francisco in the 80s and they did not go over too well. The lead lad said, "We're from England, and we're called It Bites. Apparently that means something different over here." He was right. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 16:07
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 16:18
Lot of wisdom, you seem to have -------------
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 16:46
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I don't like negativity threads, as mentioning anything will offend someone who likes mentioned band. I do, however, feel moral obligation to warn everyone to stay away from http://www.progarchives.com/album-reviews.asp?id=24522 - Simon Railton . I can't imagine anyone who might like his ehm...prog music. You're allowed to approach it only once, to check the samples in disbelief. You need a dose of Valium. /thread. ------------- |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 16:49
Hear, hear ! I have to say that, in spite of some of the stinkers I have had to listen to for reviewing purposes in the past few months, nothing plumbed the same depths reached by said musician. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 18:20
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I'm glad this thread got going again! I'll tell ya, it is NOT easy to be a prog musician! I could get smashed drunk & play reggae or blues bass all night long, and probably have my Chicago audience boppin' and dancin' and partyin'. Get me that drunk, give me my Les Paul and have me perform Fripp's work from Eno's "Baby's On Fire," and the authorities would be called!! Given that, DeafMoon posted this wise information: The Worst Prog Band, or any band for that matter, is a band who has these characteristics... 1. The desire to be some one/band other than who they are. 2. The Clone syndrome of their instruments, sound and playing after another band. 3. Unoriginal song-writing and lick stealing. 4. Inability to read music or create on their own. 5. Inconsistent song structures that become snippets of time changing garbage. ----- Sadly, I'd say this encompasses much of prog music I've heard since about TFTO and The Lamb! I'm guilty of it myself *sob* Even bands who were REALLY good at it, like Starcastle and Flash, were still always compared to Yes, with some great justification. Oh well, sometimes that works out very well, like Marillion with Fish. Other times, not so much. In terms of new prog, I saw the big DT tour with Scale the Summit (energetic performance by some talented kids), Big Elf (man, they were hard to listen to) and DT (never one of my favorites, endless/pointless solos with mediocre vocals and dull, uninspired bass). But, at least they were all original artists who didn't rip anyone off, so a tip of the hat to them all! |